Turkish Airlines THY working conditions - worse than announced?

[worldnomad]

Yep, correct

I see someone is really angry, and again it’s a 737 driver in thy. I work there too, not for much longer though. I can only completely and fully agree with everything that is written in all previous answers.
I am in the luxury of being a Triple driver. I entered three years ago.
Everything has been a constant slide backwards. I thought, gullible, that when E got his presidency a la Putin things would at least stabilize.
But the guy has stepped on so many’s toes it is now becoming apparent that the place is in meltdown.
it will spiral out of control the last months of this year.
A civil war is not unthinkable! (Not my words, from my Turkish colleagues).

actual; Salary of july was 41000 tl, the pay out was 6800€ back then. Today that’s 5300 and some change.

The new airport; Won’t be ready. Crew terminal will probably consist of Nissen huts or so.

Commute will be nightmare.
Hotels in the area, 1

Every day on average 1,5 pilot resigns. September will be hell because in the tens will resign at once and go to Pegasus. Company does nothing to stem the flow.
They do circle jerks because the profits are huge, until they hit the wall and it comes down on them. And it will because Turks are like any other Asian, too proud and pigheaded to acknowledge the problem.

Sorry, I refuse to get into details about long haul roster(West coast USA 13 hr block out and 13 back with 22 hours on the ground, should tell you enough)
and other stuff.

THY is a deeply employee unfriendly airline. Also to their own good people who by law are not allowed to strike, are represented by a union that’s so far up the ass of E, you can just see the tips of their shoes.

To them foreigner employees are troublemakers, always creating difficulty. Wouldn’t surprise me that they allow the current drain to continue to make all foreigners leave. But alas, I now start to sound like a turk, full of conspiracy theories.

All I can say is, like all before me, stay THE HELL AWAY!

[erma330]

Originally Posted by Avenger

According to fellow aviators ex THY, they hear THY have just given a 20% pay rise to cockpit crew...

Becomes peanuts

[erma330]

Originally Posted by worldnomad

I see someone is really angry, and again it’s a 737 driver in thy. I work there too, not for much longer though. I can only completely and fully agree with everything that is written in all previous answers.
I am in the luxury of being a Triple driver. I entered three years ago.
Everything has been a constant slide backwards. I thought, gullible, that when E got his presidency a la Putin things would at least stabilize.
But the guy has stepped on so many’s toes it is now becoming apparent that the place is in meltdown.
it will spiral out of control the last months of this year.
A civil war is not unthinkable! (Not my words, from my Turkish colleagues).

actual; Salary of july was 41000 tl, the pay out was 6800€ back then. Today that’s 5300 and some change.

The new airport; Won’t be ready. Crew terminal will probably consist of Nissen huts or so.

Commute will be nightmare.
Hotels in the area, 1

Every day on average 1,5 pilot resigns. September will be hell because in the tens will resign at once and go to Pegasus. Company does nothing to stem the flow.
They do circle jerks because the profits are huge, until they hit the wall and it comes down on them. And it will because Turks are like any other Asian, too proud and pigheaded to acknowledge the problem.

Sorry, I refuse to get into details about long haul roster(West coast USA 13 hr block out and 13 back with 22 hours on the ground, should tell you enough)
and other stuff.

THY is a deeply employee unfriendly airline. Also to their own good people who by law are not allowed to strike, are represented by a union that’s so far up the ass of E, you can just see the tips of their shoes.

To them foreigner employees are troublemakers, always creating difficulty. Wouldn’t surprise me that they allow the current drain to continue to make all foreigners leave. But alas, I now start to sound like a turk, full of conspiracy theories.

All I can say is, like all before me, stay THE HELL AWAY!

And I am going to add:

2014 Wide Body Salary:

26500TL Rate: 0,43USD/TL 11395USD

2015:

26500TL Rate: 0,35USD/TL 9275USD

2016:

33000TL Rate: 0,31USD/TL 10230USD

2017:

37500TL Rate: 0,27USD/TL 10125USD

2018:

43000TL Rate: 0,15USD/TL 6450USD


Any further explanation required???

[ExDubai]

Leaked video of a crisis meeting between Mr. E and the finance minister:

You Tube

[nebojsar]

Guys are there any additional income tax besides 5% that need to be paid on year basis?

[seco83]

stay away from THY on 737

hi all,

i am turkish. i have been flying as FO as P4 on 737 at THY since 2014. i have more than 6000 hours and waiting for upgrade almost 2 years, I cannot see what will be happen about upgrades because of seniority. they put the pilots into upgrade lists who have relatives and relationships with goverment people. as you can see, “game of thrones” on theatres.??!! )

since 2016, crew planning and rostering are worse than ever.

• THY is using a software named “Carmen” for crew planning. they are modifying and changing its software to adapt new **** FTL and their rules.
• they are making so many inputs into software so as to arrange some good flights with a proper resting time, funny and fancy destination for managers, relatives of managers and their good friends as TRI/TRE etc.
• pilot union “HAVA-IS” is just a **** and head of this union is relative to goverment and thy management so they are not protecting pilots. never.
• on 737 fleet, you are planned at least 15 days layovers. you are AWAY from your home at least 15 days.
• 10-12 days layovers cover Anadolujet flights staying in different cities in Turkey such as 4-5 block days 3-4 times in a month. ( %90 percent Ankara, rest is Antalya, Izmir, Adana, Trabzon, etc.) with minimum rest time which is 10 hours(most of the time they plan 10-12 hours resting time) starting next flight early in the morning reporting time 3-5 am local time 3-4 legs each day 4 days in a row. you are logging 4hours flight time with a flight duty time 13:30hours according to FTL.(insanely wasting too much time for almost nothing)
• most of the time transfer between airport and hotels around 45 minutes that makes 1h30minutes to hotel and way back to airport and it is included in resting time.
• on 737 fleet %90 percent of time you have only anadolujet and africa flights and layovers.
• % 50 percent of africa flights have 2 legs until going to hotel. logging 7.5-8 hours and arriving hotel around 3-4 am local time. you have 22 hours rest time officially but as i mentioned above you are already wasting 2 hours during transfers. you will have a pick up time on the same day around 22:00-24:00 local time in the evening. so you cant sleep enough and rest properly before flight after you wake up in the afternoon.
• from africa flights, you arrive at istanbul in the morning around 8-9 am local time. next day, you have a stdby duty starting at 3 am local time lasts 8 hours until 11 am local time. most of the time they give you a call around 3-4 am by interrupting your sleep at night for reporting time.
• crew planning department call you on your OFF days for a flight duty, they try to push you to accept the flight by proposing some ideas about pilot shortage, supporting and helping our company. they are talking and behaving on the line such as they are begging on you but behind scene they just put you in place you are an idiot. (many times when they called me, i was with a friend next to me who had stdby duty but somehow they were not calling him???!!!) if you dont accept the flight, they duly note your name, then they start to punish you, taking your planned flights in the next 3-4 days out of your roster by replacing stdby and reserve duties which means they will inform you between stdby duty hours, turning your life into HELL, by making your life unplanned.
• according to new protocol agreed between HAVA-IS and THY, they can plan flights 7 days in a row mixing flight patterns starting early in the morning or late in the evening with 12 hours resting. it is impossible to focus and have a proper rest. they always plan early flights around 2-3 am local time after your double OFF. so you cannot count your second dayoff for full rest.
• most of the domestic flights are short flights so you cannot even eat during your flight because cabin crews reject to give you food during flight by complaining such as “they dont have enough time to serve for cockpit” and company also supports cabin crew against pilots by placing passengers in priority instead of pilot’s physiological needs. so dont expect to eat during anadolujet operation in flights????!!!!
• they started to plan 737 cockpit crews 4-5 time in a month from Sabiha Gokcen(SAW). you are transferred from Ataturk Airport to Sabiha by crewbus takes around 1.5-2 hours. after you complete 4 legs flight, you are transferred back to Ataturk Airport by another 1h30m, (most of the time more than 2 hours depending on traffic jam in istanbul) as deadhead crew. so your resting time already started in crewbus according to FTL!!!!!!. sounds funny huh? but it is %100 real. you are expect to go to flights 4 days in a row with these pattern and you becoming really, really exhausted during this period.

i have been almost 5 years in THY and just waiting for a start date for another company in order to runaway from this **** place. just STAY AWAY from 737 fleet in THY (sorry for capitals)

[hogos87]

Turkish airlines working experience

Hi guys,

Previously flew for 5 years as a F/O on the B777 fleet. Wanted to give you a feedback regarding working conditions as an expat:

-Please don't waste your time and money with thy, flying there.

- don't expect any upgrade for captain, unless your are in the company for more than 5 years and having at least 7000 hours . Might be considered, but only maybe. Expect also racism and unprofessionality during your upgrade process, since the Turkish instructors don't want to have expat F/O to be upgraded. Don't forget as a 777 F/O no command upgrade on the 777 , you have to go back to 737 and sign a bond for 3 years of 19000 euros.

- money wise no need to talk, spend my last 10 years in turkey and never saw the Turkish lira going back. Nowadays it looks like it will go back but don't trust it. You will always lose and have instability in terms of your salary.

- 777 freighter changed a lot of the rostering in a negative way, you have to dead head sometimes 20 hours to fly finally one leg of 6 hours , which of course your StarWars military captain will be PF.

- But not everything is negative , if you wanna commute THY is flying to a lot of places in a daily basis so commuting is quite easy.

- off requests in the beginning of my career there was always granted what I ask for , but forget it nowadays. Flying a lot don't forget that.

- new airport gives to all employee only question marks, it is too far away from the downtown. No company signal of providing any shuttles for employees . So after each flight you have to drive maybe by your own in the crazy Turkish Istanbul traffic , which you get quite exhausted after a time. Especially when you are tired after a long flight. Take care about that as well. Don't forget as well that in the area of the new airport there are nothing around where you can rent something. So you will have at least a traffic time of 1 hour car or taxi.

- at the end I got my 777 rating for free.. moving on my life and career and hoping in my new company to get my upgrade on the 777,. İt is really so great not to be stamped as a stupid expat F/O like in Turkish airlines ...Widen your world.

Cheers

[Moving]

Any update for 777 drivers?

hi there,

any update for 777 drivers for actual annual net salary and working conditions?

cheers

[erma330]

THY starts violating expats contract conditions

THY has begun to not paying Sunday duties as specified in contract term number 4.6 that reads:
“if the employee works on Sunday or in the Turkish Religious and National Public Holidays, he will be paid an overtime fee”
For those of you that may be considering to join this airline.

[Banana Joe]

So to heck with contracts clauses, rules and laws? Really?

[Dog Star]

Main concern would be stability of currency exchange rate. Beautiful country though and culture.

[GF4RCE]

For Want of a Nail

Originally Posted by umitatl

First it is applied for all parts in the company,not only for expats.It is absolutely far from ideal but apparently and unfortunately it is implemented so absolute truth is take it or leave it. No one is discriminating the third parties but for the ones who think that contract is devalued enormously are free to leave.

Not very constructive and your not doing the locals or Turkish Airlines any favors when you have that tone... regardless of what the situation is or if there is a surplus or a need for aircrews...... its part of the T.I.S (collective bargaining agreement) which is protected by the working laws of T. C Turkey. Ideally if there were a need for such drastic measure, it would of been appropriate to sit with the union delegates who represent ( subject if at all) crews and hammer out a negotiation.
at the end of the day a contract or agreement is legally binding so it can not be just a one way amendment.
the really issue is that if such occurrence keep happening then eventually aircrews are going to hit minimum wage because of your mindset people will be paying to fly (p2fly schemes) and that is not a very good image of a flag carrier to have..... from the tone you have, i imagine you have a very narrow field of view on how such things effect not only monetary terms but one performance and global image of the business itself.
if you really care about THY ( i do as an expat working for the company for 12 years+) then sacrifice half your salary wait lets put you on minimum wage without consulting you..
and you are right people are free to leave but don't think its so easy to relocate start conversion training and start at the bottom of the stack in seniority list....

just ember this

"For Want of a Nail"

For want of a nail, the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the rider was lost. For want of a rider, the battle was lost. For want of a battle, the kingdom was lost, And all for the want of a horseshoe nail

[erma330]

May start also legal actions and sue the company!!!!!

[erma330]

Originally Posted by GF4RCE

Not very constructive and your not doing the locals or Turkish Airlines any favors when you have that tone... regardless of what the situation is or if there is a surplus or a need for aircrews...... its part of the T.I.S (collective bargaining agreement) which is protected by the working laws of T. C Turkey. Ideally if there were a need for such drastic measure, it would of been appropriate to sit with the union delegates who represent ( subject if at all) crews and hammer out a negotiation.
at the end of the day a contract or agreement is legally binding so it can not be just a one way amendment.
the really issue is that if such occurrence keep happening then eventually aircrews are going to hit minimum wage because of your mindset people will be paying to fly (p2fly schemes) and that is not a very good image of a flag carrier to have..... from the tone you have, i imagine you have a very narrow field of view on how such things effect not only monetary terms but one performance and global image of the business itself.
if you really care about THY ( i do as an expat working for the company for 12 years+) then sacrifice half your salary wait lets put you on minimum wage without consulting you..
and you are right people are free to leave but don't think its so easy to relocate start conversion training and start at the bottom of the stack in seniority list....

just ember this

"For Want of a Nail"

For want of a nail, the shoe was lost. For want of a shoe, the horse was lost. For want of a horse, the rider was lost. For want of a rider, the battle was lost. For want of a battle, the kingdom was lost, And all for the want of a horseshoe nail

Congrats!!!
It could not be better said.!!!!!!!!

[erma330]

Originally Posted by umitatl

You are absolutely free to resign if you are pissed off about this infridgement.

I don´t know if you are a pilot, part of the management, or just a sucker/licker of company. People like you has made this job a cancer, supporting actions like this or not doing anything but resigning and quitting to fight for rights signed on contracts.
That´s why THY has planes grounded without pilots to fly and all those pilots from airlines that have closed in the country are pushing desperate to join THY, right?
that´s why your own turkish TRI´s/TRE´s are leaving trying to join other airlines, and failed because don´t have the appropriate level of english.

[umitatl]

Hahahaha

Now moderator wiping out all post.I thought all opinions are welcomed at our society .Anyway plenty of appeals through ministry of labor to terminate permits on progress.Hasta la vista..