BA Direct Entry Pilot.
Good news for all then. Observation as an easy captain. If you're mid to late 20's apply to BA.
If easy keep their more mature FO's and those who really want to work for us, and maybe recruit more older, experienced pilots who hopefully will stay; there wont be the need for this revolving door of cadets. Of course there is still the initial pain of lower pay but if you want to join easy and can look further ahead it's good.
Good luck to all - whichever direction you're travelling.
If easy keep their more mature FO's and those who really want to work for us, and maybe recruit more older, experienced pilots who hopefully will stay; there wont be the need for this revolving door of cadets. Of course there is still the initial pain of lower pay but if you want to join easy and can look further ahead it's good.
Good luck to all - whichever direction you're travelling.
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Thompson and Thomas Cook are struggling companies in the current airline and travel industry.
If half a billion profit is struggling I'd love to see your idea of success!! Get out Of your BA bubble and look around. TOM is hugely successful and rewards us with the second best remuneration in the UK and arguable the best conditions... and its pretty mandatory to come out for beers downroute as one crew!!
Sorry for interrupting your back slapping competition.
I can do the maths of maximum likely retirement age vs. 34-year pay scale, but is that the only thing people are referring to?
GM
I think, notwithstanding hours, knowledge and ability there is a right time to get a command.
You need to be of a certain minimum age commensurate with maturity to give authority and confidence to your crew, handling partners and passengers. So depending on the individual and aircraft type earliest age would be late 20's to early 30's. Time to learn the aircraft and job properly can be, say, 5-10 years so after that time you're ready and hungry for the command. Unless you're constantly being challenged with new routes or fleets you can become stagnant in the RH and fall into a 'FO mentallity' with not thinking about the wider issues of the job.
If you join an airline in your 30's with a 15-20 yr wait for a command slot you'll most likely be 50+ before you get the chance at an upgrade. It's a know fact that changing/learning is more difficult at that age. Combine that with the fact you have been in the RH seat for a long time it becomes an uphill slog.
Most people aspire to a command. If you don't and are happy with your lot as a 'professional' FO there's not a problem with whoever you work for.
I think, notwithstanding hours, knowledge and ability there is a right time to get a command.
You need to be of a certain minimum age commensurate with maturity to give authority and confidence to your crew, handling partners and passengers. So depending on the individual and aircraft type earliest age would be late 20's to early 30's. Time to learn the aircraft and job properly can be, say, 5-10 years so after that time you're ready and hungry for the command. Unless you're constantly being challenged with new routes or fleets you can become stagnant in the RH and fall into a 'FO mentallity' with not thinking about the wider issues of the job.
If you join an airline in your 30's with a 15-20 yr wait for a command slot you'll most likely be 50+ before you get the chance at an upgrade. It's a know fact that changing/learning is more difficult at that age. Combine that with the fact you have been in the RH seat for a long time it becomes an uphill slog.
Most people aspire to a command. If you don't and are happy with your lot as a 'professional' FO there's not a problem with whoever you work for.
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Guys just to give another prospective here, forgetting about command for a minute (which no matter what anybody says on here, is a very important step in a pilot's career) even only considering money and bases, by no means this is the best job as someone is suggesting. Best option in the UK, possibly.
When talking about some of the other companies you are forgetting about base options and local contracts which make a HUGE difference in money, conditions, schedule, lifestyle depending on where you are.
BA is a fantastic airline I think, with a great fleet and destinations, but we have to be honest and realise that no legacy is what it used to be 20 years ago. So someone joining now should be very aware, to avoid becoming a gold member of that moaning club which we all know too well.
When talking about some of the other companies you are forgetting about base options and local contracts which make a HUGE difference in money, conditions, schedule, lifestyle depending on where you are.
BA is a fantastic airline I think, with a great fleet and destinations, but we have to be honest and realise that no legacy is what it used to be 20 years ago. So someone joining now should be very aware, to avoid becoming a gold member of that moaning club which we all know too well.
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and its pretty mandatory to come out for beers downroute as one crew!
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As I understand it, just over 100 pilots will be recruited this year and just under 200 next year. This will include the cadets who number 70-80 this year and 60-70 next year. These cadets are the ones recruited over the last few years.
Regards
Regards
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Hello all,
An interesting thread with a range of opinions offered. In the end, I decided to apply. I see there is little to be lost by applying and the chances are I will be unsuccessful anyway given the stiff competition there is likely to be.
However, is someone able to shed some light on the BA pay scales (or point me in the right direction) so I can do my own due diligence from a financial perspective? Though, personally, that isn't the most important factor if I were in the position of being offered a job, it does form part of the picture.
Are these numbers on PPJN accurate, especially with regard to the top and bottoms of the scales for both FO and Capt? British Airways pilot jobs, payscales and entry requirements.
An interesting thread with a range of opinions offered. In the end, I decided to apply. I see there is little to be lost by applying and the chances are I will be unsuccessful anyway given the stiff competition there is likely to be.
However, is someone able to shed some light on the BA pay scales (or point me in the right direction) so I can do my own due diligence from a financial perspective? Though, personally, that isn't the most important factor if I were in the position of being offered a job, it does form part of the picture.
Are these numbers on PPJN accurate, especially with regard to the top and bottoms of the scales for both FO and Capt? British Airways pilot jobs, payscales and entry requirements.
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Hi WC,
Yes those figures on ppjn are accurate.
The flying allowances have changed recently. About half of the total is now fixed if you fly or not. About £7700pa gross for LH and about £6500 SH.
The other half is variable and depends on flying. So add a total of about £16,000 gross pa to your basic.
You'll be on SH for about 6 years currently before having the seniority to get onto LH. With the current SH review and focus on competing better with the like of easyjet Ts and Cs will drop further and time to LH may increase. That said it's still a great place to be In my opinion.
Yes those figures on ppjn are accurate.
The flying allowances have changed recently. About half of the total is now fixed if you fly or not. About £7700pa gross for LH and about £6500 SH.
The other half is variable and depends on flying. So add a total of about £16,000 gross pa to your basic.
You'll be on SH for about 6 years currently before having the seniority to get onto LH. With the current SH review and focus on competing better with the like of easyjet Ts and Cs will drop further and time to LH may increase. That said it's still a great place to be In my opinion.
Last edited by cloudn9ne; 8th Jun 2014 at 02:41.
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You'll be on SH for about 6 years currently before having the seniority to get onto LH. With the current SH review and focus on competing better with the like of easyjet Ts and Cs will drop further and time to LH may increase. That said it's still a great place to be In my opinion.
Moves to LH and/or LHS are essentially seniority and retirement driven. When you have some SH Capts bidding to RHS LH already, I leave the applicant to judge what effect the 2-3 "agreement" "business" reviews currently going on might have
(1 clue is that "SH" appears in 2 of the savings / review items)
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The only thing we can be certain of re movement in BA is that nobody knows for sure. As a SHW myself I had a very pessimistic view of when I'd get the opportunity to move but an email from our P&P guys left me way more optimistic. There are rumours of a higher than predicted retiral rate next year, a high number of ex-BMI guys aren't sticking around, the 55-65 bubble is bursting in the next 2-3 years, a shed load more Triples and the 350 (hopefully!) which will require Airbus recency all means that the opportunity to move MAY not be too far away. It's not unusual for guys to see out their 5-yr engagement freeze anyway, so I don't actually think things are much worse than they would be normally. The wait probably feels a lot longer just now to most SH guys due to current circumstances. A little birdie also tells me pilots aren't the target in the upcoming Review. Personally, I think it's not great at the moment but things should improve.
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Cattivo
Your post echos my point, and the caution needed by new joiners. When we launch a DEP recruitment campaign (as we seem about to do - the current one is not a campaign but crisis (mis)management), it indicates movement for everybody. Hence why you simultaneously see things looking up for the SH escape rope 
The point the applicants need to judge however is "what" the situation will be like in min 5 years time, yet gamble on the decision today. If the SH review / round 2 of bmi / WC talks don't solve the "SH is unprofitable" mantra of BA/IAG, and we see Vueling coming in to LHR, then the new entrants will be bottom of the BA list forever. Much as IB pilots were for some time, with zero prospects IIRC? (albeit I believe things are changed there now...)
Summary: Using todays "time to command" "time to LH" is a poor basis for serious career decisions. When I joined BA (1996), time to SH Command was 21yrs. But access to seniority lists etc. meant for those joining then, I calculated likely 7-8yrs, and in fact became nearer 5 for some. All I can urge prospective joiners is to really research the issue... and a pPrune thread is not going to get you that info
As a SHW myself I had a very pessimistic view of when I'd get the opportunity to move but an email from our P&P guys left me way more optimistic
The point the applicants need to judge however is "what" the situation will be like in min 5 years time, yet gamble on the decision today. If the SH review / round 2 of bmi / WC talks don't solve the "SH is unprofitable" mantra of BA/IAG, and we see Vueling coming in to LHR, then the new entrants will be bottom of the BA list forever. Much as IB pilots were for some time, with zero prospects IIRC? (albeit I believe things are changed there now...)
Summary: Using todays "time to command" "time to LH" is a poor basis for serious career decisions. When I joined BA (1996), time to SH Command was 21yrs. But access to seniority lists etc. meant for those joining then, I calculated likely 7-8yrs, and in fact became nearer 5 for some. All I can urge prospective joiners is to really research the issue... and a pPrune thread is not going to get you that info
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I watched A Very British Airline last night.
Lets hope we don't forget to apply our lipstick 4 times, or we are out?
Also I thought drinking in uniform was a big no no? Yet they were feeding all the Cabin crew various wines, knowing some were driving home!
I also thought the mixed fleet cabin crew were supposed to be young and good looking? Didn't see much evidence of either (in both sexes to be fair!).
Lets hope we don't forget to apply our lipstick 4 times, or we are out?
Also I thought drinking in uniform was a big no no? Yet they were feeding all the Cabin crew various wines, knowing some were driving home!
I also thought the mixed fleet cabin crew were supposed to be young and good looking? Didn't see much evidence of either (in both sexes to be fair!).
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'I watched A Very British Airline last night.
Lets hope we don't forget to apply our lipstick 4 times, or we are out?
Also I thought drinking in uniform was a big no no? Yet they were feeding all the Cabin crew various wines, knowing some were driving home!
I also thought the mixed fleet cabin crew were supposed to be young and good looking? Didn't see much evidence of either (in both sexes to be fair!).'
Got your PFO then?
Lets hope we don't forget to apply our lipstick 4 times, or we are out?
Also I thought drinking in uniform was a big no no? Yet they were feeding all the Cabin crew various wines, knowing some were driving home!
I also thought the mixed fleet cabin crew were supposed to be young and good looking? Didn't see much evidence of either (in both sexes to be fair!).'
Got your PFO then?
