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CHINA. Fear and Punishment.

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CHINA. Fear and Punishment.

Old 31st Jan 2014, 05:15
  #41 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 171
I'm not sure why this thread was resurrected but there is a lot of pretty heavy exaggeration in many of the posts including the OP.

If you resist the culture you are trying to swim upstream and you will get swept away. Thus the saying..."go with the flow" and everything will be much smoother.

As I've said before, China is not for everyone but it can be very rewarding both financially and as a life experience for the right people. Exaggerating and complaining about the negatives in online forums won't redeem you or help others, it will only make people less likely to listen to you.

Presenting a realistic and balanced account of your experiences along with why you think things didn't work out for you will not only help others avoid the same mistakes, it will cause them take you seriously.

I personally have learned a great deal from my experiences and I feel the Chinese have learned from me as well. That is a much more productive attitude they will need as they advance into the 21st century with the rest of the aviation world.
lifeafteraviation is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2014, 01:14
  #42 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Among the Hordes
Posts: 6
I don't suppose that your life after aviation is brokering pilot jobs for the Chinese? That would justify your surprisingly optimistic depiction of Chinese aviation . If you are involved in this despicable human traffic business that promises the world to foreign pilots and then delivers them into a system designed to cheat,exploit,overwork and in many circumstances humiliate them, I can tell you that you are losing your time because the word is out, hundreds or even thousands of reports of all sorts of abuse and neglect are now public domain , and you think that calling them exaggerations will solve the problem of your Chinese overlords? It is now common knowledge that there is a critical lack of suitable experienced captains applying to Chinese companies , resulting in grounded aircraft,flight cancelations and pulled back expansion plans, and this is not going away anytime soon. It takes a short time to build a bad reputation, but it takes a lot longer to recover from it, specially when nothing is being done to clear your name.
THYTHY is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2014, 03:58
  #43 (permalink)  
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The Back of Beyond
Posts: 93
Why anyone would every want to step foot in China, much less work there is completely beyond me.

I've been there with work a few times, and if I never step foot into that cesspit again it will be too soon.

You've got to be really, really desperate... ie. no other airline in the world would touch you with a ten foot barge pole, so you've no option to work under these conditions, and in their polluted, neglected environment

Flying Clog is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2014, 10:19
  #44 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 171
You, THYTHY, have obviously never read any of my other posts to think that I'm optimistic or a recruiter.

I said that some people do very well in China and others who have realistic expectations come and get exactly what they came for.

China is not forgiving of pilots with poor attitudes and many pilots unfortunately have pretty rotten attitudes so they are destined to fail or hate it.

Of course there are some who have had the best intentions and did everything right still get horrible deals and experiences but for the most part, you are still in control of your own success or failure.

My point here is that exaggerating the negatives will cause people to simply ignore you altogether. If you provide a realistic account of what to expect and how to avoid the many pitfalls it will help many people from making the mistake of coming to China and allow those who are determined to try it anyway to succeed at it.

The opportunities in China will continue for some time especially since most people quit before their contracts are up. The pay will continue to increase and is still pretty well unmatched anywhere in the world for those looking to make money fast...How many pilots do you know who've lost their pension and are supporting several ex wives at the same time?
lifeafteraviation is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2014, 10:32
  #45 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 171
You've got to be really, really desperate... ie. no other airline in the world would touch you with a ten foot barge pole
What you really mean to say is that no other airline in the world would touch you with a ten foot pole when you demand a starting salary of a quarter mil USD directly in the left seat because you've got some debts to pay off and you don't have time to mess around with a seniority list.

I suspect a lot of the haters are people who failed the evaluations and screenings (most do) or were quickly forced out for other reasons....there are a lot of them.

If you came, worked your ass off for a couple or three years, made a ton of money and then went home, most likely you'll look back at the experience with an attitude of..."well that was crazy...had some good times....made good friends...paid off the mortgage and kids' college...hopefully I didn't get lung cancer or some other disease, but I'm glad I'm done." That's a far cry from the anger rants some of these guys are posting which tells me something embarrassing or sad happened to them personally and they want revenge.
lifeafteraviation is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2014, 15:55
  #46 (permalink)  
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Among the Hordes
Posts: 6
Lifeafteraviation, let's say you're right and there is out there a breed apart , of superhuman pilots that actually do well in China. Let's try and recreate their profile and if someone feels it fits them , then they should apply , take the plunge, and help me out here fellows because It's almost impossible to describe the whole picture.
The Super Expat must.......

- Be there for the money.
- Not be bothered for being cheated out of what he contractually was promised, repeatedly.
- Have a "nice" attitude.
- Be submissive , flexible and always willing to take one for the boys.
- Always emphasize the virtues of the country's punishment culture.
- Be immune to fatigue.
- Be willing to plan his life with a few hours notice , every day.
- Be able to enjoy adequate rest in dirty s***holes during layovers.
- Be willing to carry his own meals on board to avoid eating stuff most dogs .....
- Be willing to put his medical license on the chopping board every 6 months with medical examiners not suitable to be his pet's vet.
- Be willing to live 3\4 of his time thousands of miles away from the family, or have them over and let pollution take it's course.
-Be willing to undergo ridiculous screening and training periods that are basically designed prove the superiority of locals and lead him to quit.
- Be willing to live 3\4 of his life in an xenophobic environment where locals consider him decadent, lazy, dum, and easily outsmarted.
- Be willing to work in an unprotected environment where pilot mistakes can easily become criminal offenses.
- Be willing to be a necessary evil and enjoy no recognition for a job well done.

Boy this is exhausting... some one pick up where I left
THYTHY is offline  
Old 1st Feb 2014, 20:56
  #47 (permalink)  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United States
Posts: 171
I think only the first three are real considerations....and of course the pollution and fatigue and time away from family(some people are looking for that though).

The medical is usually used to get rid of people they don't want anyway.

If the rest on that list is a problem you were just at the wrong airline.

The three to five months annual vacation is another benefit that people are willing to put up with the crap for.

Besides, apart from the few people who plan on making a career in China...it's just a temporary gig anyway so who cares?
lifeafteraviation is offline  

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