Easyjet Recruitment
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The point that tends not to be stressed enough is that decent T&Cs for pilots (particularly debt-ridden flexi-FOs) is a matter of safety. Consider, if you will, the plight of the Parc guys who were threatened with the sack unless they accepted a financially-crippling 2-year Berlin contract. Some of the guys going are now not expecting to be able to meet even just their loan-repayments for the month - never mind earning enough to cover food/rent in Berlin. Already a few of them are organising second jobs in bars/restaurants.
Consider what WILL be happening in SXF in just a few weeks - FOs will be doing their 5am - 1pm early, heading home and changing into his/her bar uniform and working the evening shift until midnight or later. Home to bed for a couple of hours sleep and back down to the eJ crew room for 5am the following morning. Repeat.
Its a horrible thought but it seems the surest way to kill the flexi epidemic will be a hole in the ground.
Consider what WILL be happening in SXF in just a few weeks - FOs will be doing their 5am - 1pm early, heading home and changing into his/her bar uniform and working the evening shift until midnight or later. Home to bed for a couple of hours sleep and back down to the eJ crew room for 5am the following morning. Repeat.
Its a horrible thought but it seems the surest way to kill the flexi epidemic will be a hole in the ground.
Why can't you strike? You can do whatever you like.
In the UK if your company leaves you and your cohort's (e.g. current easyjet pilots) T&Cs alone then carrying out Industrial Action (IA) in protest over another group's T&Cs, ( e.g. sub-contractors, flying for Easyjet and provided by a third party ) would be extremely ill advised.
If do proceed to IA you'll face:
1. a legal injunction,
Followed by, if you strike anyway because you think "you can do whatever you like":
2. Confiscation of Union Reps assets, confiscation of Union assets, dismissal of all employees who took part and/or organised the illegal industrial action, and no doubt a list of heaven knows what else.
BALPA found this out the hard and expensive way when BA pilots threatened to strike over the T&Cs of prospective "Open Skies" pilots a few years back.
I appreciate in some countries it's possible to strike at the drop of a hat, or at least with minimal warning, over just about anything that upsets the union membership from the colour of uniforms to management bonuses but in the UK Unions are stuck with some very draconian legislation regulating their behaviour.
Last edited by wiggy; 12th Sep 2012 at 09:11.
Superpilot - Nobody is 'forcing' anybody. They are being offered a position which they can accept or not. Agreed it is not what most people want but they do not have to take it. In my time I had to accept jobs I did not want in order to gain the experience to get where I am today. If they don't want it there are those who do.
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Disgrace that Easyjet pilots allowed contracting to happen in the first place. Can you imagine the level of industrial action employed if Boris floated the contracting model with London underground!
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Phensocks
But you easyJet boys and girls have allowed the sh1t on your doorstep haven't you?
You had the power to stop Flexicrew at it's inception and you didn't.
You want to consider just how soon it'll be before your shoes get dirty. I'm sure WB is laughing his socks off at your disunity.
You had the power to stop Flexicrew at it's inception and you didn't.
You want to consider just how soon it'll be before your shoes get dirty. I'm sure WB is laughing his socks off at your disunity.
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But you easyJet boys and girls have allowed the sh1t on your doorstep haven't you?
You had the power to stop Flexicrew at it's inception and you didn't.
You want to consider just how soon it'll be before your shoes get dirty.
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Can this thread be closed as it is full of the whining, whinge'ing and self-obsessed.
"Please,please,please" as James Brown said. Moderator please put us out of our misery. I don't mind reading crap as long as it is well written crap.
As we seem to have reached the u bend on the thread with more and more faecal matter being added please close and delete this thread.
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that this thread appears to have nowhere to go
Beazlebub wrote, in my opinion, a very good response. And as someone in construction you must surely see the reasoning to it. He is at the bottom of the pile in terms of experience level. Like a first day apprentice on a site. But he has sold his soul to CTC so I hope he gets used to it. I guess he is fortunate in having parents with the means to bail him out, and therein lies the problem. All the pay2fly idiots who assumed colossal debt in the blind ritual belief in CTC would in fact be on better deals if they witheld their labour from Easyjet until the package improved. Simple you say. Not so, because if the package improved guys with experience would then be attracted to these jobs in their droves, so poor Zordon jr would have to suffer the humiliation of flying an aircraft with propellors. Oh No. What would he tell the girls then?
But would it be so bad? My first job in a turboprop a few years back paid more than junior is on now. And the type was paid for, with salary from day one. And I learned how to fly all over again. I could walk into the base office and not have a good proportion of the crews looking down at me as someone who has contributed to the downfall of the T&Cs of the industry.
The whole argument that CTC moved the goalposts is fairly weak. If junior had read the small print he would have seen that nothing was guaranteed. Promised maybe, almost certainly. But then a search on here would have shown varied opinions on CTC. I have a friend who was on the second course back in 2005 when it all began and he has some bad tales. Indeed even then, it was clear the risk was all on the candidates side. And the bank, as it was unsecured then. Hence all the IVA's and bankruptcies.
Why would Balpa care. You're not, but supposing you were a Balpa member and flew Q400's for Flybe. 4000 hrs. Captain. A reasonable experience level, and one which, if Easyjet really had safety as their first priority, would be a walk in for the RHS. Would you be happy if your subs were contributing to the fund to get better pay for the guy who jumped the ladder for the job you were working towards?
Be careful what you wish for asking the regulator for help. This happened in the USA so what did they do? The raised the limit to an ATPL minimum for an airline job. A highly safety orientated move which I personally hope comes here. That would be a leveller in the market. And make people think twice before relying on the bank of mum and dad to get a CPL.
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Phensocks:
Let me make this simple for you. Your colleague, Alexander de Meerkat is intimating that strike action would be supported by the likes of him, in order to see the back of Flexi contracts.
If you can strike over it now, then you could have done so at it's inception. But....
....If strike action would be illegal now, I suggest you explain to AdM the error of his understanding.
Anyhow, the next thing will likely be contract Captains, everywhere in easyJet.
Why shouldn't it be?
It is obvious. Phensocks, you admit that you couldn't stop Flexi FO's, so it would appear that Captains will be next.
An easyJet Captain may be well trained and professional, but they aren't irreplaceable. And more cheaply, which is to everyone's detriment. Except WB and the other management.
Let me make this simple for you. Your colleague, Alexander de Meerkat is intimating that strike action would be supported by the likes of him, in order to see the back of Flexi contracts.
If you can strike over it now, then you could have done so at it's inception. But....
....If strike action would be illegal now, I suggest you explain to AdM the error of his understanding.
Anyhow, the next thing will likely be contract Captains, everywhere in easyJet.
Why shouldn't it be?
It is obvious. Phensocks, you admit that you couldn't stop Flexi FO's, so it would appear that Captains will be next.
An easyJet Captain may be well trained and professional, but they aren't irreplaceable. And more cheaply, which is to everyone's detriment. Except WB and the other management.
Last edited by Narrow Runway; 13th Sep 2012 at 09:05.
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Silverknapper, the idea of making an ATPL the min requirement is an excellent idea!!!! Let's petition for this right now!
Last edited by Guy of Gisborne; 13th Sep 2012 at 09:14.
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Phensocks:
Let me make this simple for you. Your colleague, Alexander de Meerkat is intimating that strike action would be supported by the likes of him, in order to see the back of Flexi contracts.
If you can strike over it now, then you could have done so at it's inception. But....
....If strike action would be illegal now, I suggest you explain to AdM the error of his understanding.
Anyhow, the next thing will likely be contract Captains, everywhere in easyJet.
Why shouldn't it be?
It is obvious. Phensocks, you admit that you couldn't stop Flexi FO's, so it would appear that Captains will be next.
An easyJet Captain may be well trained and professional, but they aren't irreplaceable. And more cheaply, which is to everyone's detriment. Except WB and the other management.
Let me make this simple for you. Your colleague, Alexander de Meerkat is intimating that strike action would be supported by the likes of him, in order to see the back of Flexi contracts.
If you can strike over it now, then you could have done so at it's inception. But....
....If strike action would be illegal now, I suggest you explain to AdM the error of his understanding.
Anyhow, the next thing will likely be contract Captains, everywhere in easyJet.
Why shouldn't it be?
It is obvious. Phensocks, you admit that you couldn't stop Flexi FO's, so it would appear that Captains will be next.
An easyJet Captain may be well trained and professional, but they aren't irreplaceable. And more cheaply, which is to everyone's detriment. Except WB and the other management.
ADM is sadly mistaken if he thinks their is a legal basis for strike action in the UK as sadly there isn't. Therefore we are powerless to resist managements push towards flexi Captains. It is only a matter of time before it becomes a reality.
Therefore better to accept this fact and plan for it with your personal finances. The market will find a level, there are sadly many unemployed pilots and that level won't be in the workers favour in the UK.
We couldn't stop Flexi FO's and legally we can't stop Flexi Captains. End.
PS I'm still waiting to know how you would stop the flexi scheme under UK legislation.
Last edited by PPRuNeUser0204; 13th Sep 2012 at 10:37.
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Phensocks,
Can you guide me to the sentence where I said I'd stop Flexi under UK legislation?
As for U-turns, perhaps you could point me to that as well?
I feel very, very sorry for you. You are on a slippery slope to worsening terms and conditions. Perhaps not directly through pay cuts, but definitely on the way to pay cuts by erosion, via inflation, in real value of pay packets.
I am glad that I work for a company that doesn't rely on flying jets to make a profit. Contrary to the sad state of affairs in easyJet, our terms and conditions keep getting better and better. And significantly, too.
There may not have been a legal basis to stop Flexi FO's, but no-one even tried. And now the game is up.
Can you guide me to the sentence where I said I'd stop Flexi under UK legislation?
As for U-turns, perhaps you could point me to that as well?
I feel very, very sorry for you. You are on a slippery slope to worsening terms and conditions. Perhaps not directly through pay cuts, but definitely on the way to pay cuts by erosion, via inflation, in real value of pay packets.
I am glad that I work for a company that doesn't rely on flying jets to make a profit. Contrary to the sad state of affairs in easyJet, our terms and conditions keep getting better and better. And significantly, too.
There may not have been a legal basis to stop Flexi FO's, but no-one even tried. And now the game is up.
Last edited by Narrow Runway; 13th Sep 2012 at 12:11.
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Phensocks,
I can see you can type, but have difficulty reading.
I'll ask again. Can you point me to the sentence where I said I would stop Flexi under UK legislation?
I can see you can type, but have difficulty reading.
I'll ask again. Can you point me to the sentence where I said I would stop Flexi under UK legislation?
Last edited by Narrow Runway; 14th Sep 2012 at 10:00.