Monarch Anyone?
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It is, very much so at the moment, what's your point?
What you need to ask yourself is would you have REALLY left easy specifically for Monarch had you had a permanent contract? Would you advise someone in that position to do so?
What you need to ask yourself is would you have REALLY left easy specifically for Monarch had you had a permanent contract? Would you advise someone in that position to do so?
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The point is immaterial B&B - permanent contracts are not being offered, and so EZY will lose as a result. If they wish to retain the services of flexi-crew, they will have to adapt, just like we have all had to adapt to the follies of RYR and EZY and their woefully inadequate cadet schemes in the past. What goes around eventually come around.
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Yea but BALPA is "keeping the powder dry for the real fights ahead..." 
This is something we've heard for the past 5-7 years.....
This is something we've heard for the past 5-7 years.....
Last edited by CaptainProp; 7th Jul 2012 at 14:38.
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The point is immaterial B&B - permanent contracts are not being offered, and so EZY will lose as a result.
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EZY need to adapt then if they wish not to lose employees to Monarch. If someone decides not to stay at EZY, and go to Monarch because they can be based in the UK, on an arguably better contract, then why not ? everyone has there own desires and i would certainly advise someone, especially flexi-crew, who wish to better their situation AND remain in the UK to move over.
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Because it means they will have to recruit more (flexi ?) crew, which will mean additional cost, reduction in crewing flexibility in relation to line training new crew, loss of experience levels to bridge the gap when considering suitable candidates for upgrade etc. - list could go on am sure.
Why not offer decent terms and conditions from the start ? retain employee loyalty, save some costs long-term, have crew that can see a career progression path, a happy workforce will reap far better rewards in the bigger picture than the short-sighted vision EZY and others seem to nurture. You tend not to hear huge amounts ordinarily about Monarch because in the main i have a very strong suspicion the crews are very happy and motivated.
Why not offer decent terms and conditions from the start ? retain employee loyalty, save some costs long-term, have crew that can see a career progression path, a happy workforce will reap far better rewards in the bigger picture than the short-sighted vision EZY and others seem to nurture. You tend not to hear huge amounts ordinarily about Monarch because in the main i have a very strong suspicion the crews are very happy and motivated.
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I think you need to stop confusing what you want and a company needs. Your view on things is based on envy and incorrect information. No one from CTC flying for easy is paying to fly. They paid or their fATPL as i am sure you did, some have contributed/ bonded towards their TR as that was the offer but all have been paid for every hour that they have flown an easyJet Airbus.
If you won't go abroad then accept your lot. It's not easyJets fault that the UK market is crap - its the Labour parties, BALPAs and Ryanairs.
If you won't go abroad then accept your lot. It's not easyJets fault that the UK market is crap - its the Labour parties, BALPAs and Ryanairs.
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B&B,
I can honestly say that I would advise permanent easy guys to move to Monarch and I did in fact leave a permanent continental contract to move.
There are reasons to be argued all day as to the merits of both companies and I am sure that easy suits some perfectly. Personally, the take take attitude, and low morale at easy wore me down. Monarch is far more humane. On the whole decisions are made based on what it right or wrong rather than what is legal.
To sum it up briefly, Monarch is a much happier place to be. 99% of people would go out of their way to do a favour for the company because they want it to succeed. Can you honestly say that about easy?
I'm sure the job security argument will be thrown back and easy's record breaking profits championed, but I have not regretted my decision for a second, for me it was well worth the risk and I would wholeheartedly encourage anyone who asked me to make the move.
I can honestly say that I would advise permanent easy guys to move to Monarch and I did in fact leave a permanent continental contract to move.
There are reasons to be argued all day as to the merits of both companies and I am sure that easy suits some perfectly. Personally, the take take attitude, and low morale at easy wore me down. Monarch is far more humane. On the whole decisions are made based on what it right or wrong rather than what is legal.
To sum it up briefly, Monarch is a much happier place to be. 99% of people would go out of their way to do a favour for the company because they want it to succeed. Can you honestly say that about easy?
I'm sure the job security argument will be thrown back and easy's record breaking profits championed, but I have not regretted my decision for a second, for me it was well worth the risk and I would wholeheartedly encourage anyone who asked me to make the move.
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BlackandBrown
You are full of 
. It is Easyjets fault as much as anyone else for this sorry mess. The Easyjet route is a CTC integrated course at a cost of £73425.07 plus another 9 or 10 grand for an an Airbus type rating. And that is the only route into Easyjet as a cadet. You then in Easyjet get paid 1200 quid per month for the first "6 to 8 months" and then go on a crap Flexicrew contract.
Any FR or EZY pilot applying to MON is trying getting out of the low cost crap.
And believe me it is crap because I have been there. And guess what?
I got out.
Best thing I ever did.
Stop talking
Please.
. It is Easyjets fault as much as anyone else for this sorry mess. The Easyjet route is a CTC integrated course at a cost of £73425.07 plus another 9 or 10 grand for an an Airbus type rating. And that is the only route into Easyjet as a cadet. You then in Easyjet get paid 1200 quid per month for the first "6 to 8 months" and then go on a crap Flexicrew contract.Any FR or EZY pilot applying to MON is trying getting out of the low cost crap.
And believe me it is crap because I have been there. And guess what?
I got out.
Best thing I ever did.
Stop talking
Please.
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another 9 or 10 grand for an an Airbus type rating. And that is the only route into Easyjet as a cadet. You then in Easyjet get paid 1200 quid per month for the first "6 to 8 months"
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No one from CTC flying for easy is paying to fly
In summary, I wholeheartedly stand behind any flexi-crew moving to Monarch and would support it as by moving to such an operator, they are at least in some way undoing a little of the damage of SSTR by abandoning such poor employers that cash in on newbies, and if enough migrate, CTC/EZY, RYR et all will have to adapt, or else lose the ability to successfully crew their respective aircraft. And this will lose revenue in the end, maybe not today, but it will tomorrow. Monarch are one of the very few employers, in my opinion, that seem to have grasped the fact that by using proper Terms/Conditions, the employee is valued, and trust me, if you have happy employees, subject to unforseen issues, invariably you will have a company with a good reputation in their chosen marketplace, and they should suceed and have sustainability. Bravo Monarch, finally an employer with balls.
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1. Monarch have it agreed that 20% of the FOs at any time are on 85% contracts through the union.
2. As spider man said, all cadets join Monarch on exactly the same Ts and Cs.
3. If you didn't like the Easy scheme and felt it was immoral, why did you do it?
4. Your analogy making out that we subsidise the passengers tickets is crap. It infers that if one thing happens, another will because YOU say it will. Your opinion isn't evidence.
2. As spider man said, all cadets join Monarch on exactly the same Ts and Cs.
3. If you didn't like the Easy scheme and felt it was immoral, why did you do it?
4. Your analogy making out that we subsidise the passengers tickets is crap. It infers that if one thing happens, another will because YOU say it will. Your opinion isn't evidence.
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In summary, I wholeheartedly stand behind any flexi-crew moving to Monarch and would support it as by moving to such an operator, they are at least in some way undoing a little of the damage of SSTR
Every cadet poached is simply replaced by another SSTR cadet at an increasing rate. The ctc susage factory can produce far more cadets than other airlines can poach. Stop taking these guys and let them fester in land of orange... The only way to stop SSTR racket is to break the career chain and stop recruiting and encouraing them! Harsh but true.
Yes, with loan interest, etc. the total financial burden for the cadets is circ £120k with course & license fees, living costs, TR, etc etc. Goodluck getting a mortgage with that level of personal debt.
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Cadets know the score when they sign up. I'm fed up flying with guys moaning telling me I don't know what it is like.
I do...I had to scrape around on jack all money barely paying the interest on loans, living off credit cards, but guess what...I knew I'd be skint from the outset, accepted it, kept my head down and got on with it.
Aviation owes nobody a favour.
The comment that not one cadet would stay at easyJet maybe true but I would say any cadet who is sat waiting in the CTC pool for a placement would sell their granny to get in the RHS at easyJet and there lies the problem.
I do...I had to scrape around on jack all money barely paying the interest on loans, living off credit cards, but guess what...I knew I'd be skint from the outset, accepted it, kept my head down and got on with it.
Aviation owes nobody a favour.
The comment that not one cadet would stay at easyJet maybe true but I would say any cadet who is sat waiting in the CTC pool for a placement would sell their granny to get in the RHS at easyJet and there lies the problem.
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Cadets generally know they are in for a bit of a shafting when they sign up and its a means to an end to getting the job they really want. The level and type of shafting, however is a bit of an unknown.
Not so at the moment, every single F/O who wants to be full time is full time, every new recruit will be full time from the off. I'm sure the agreement is still valid, there is a financial incentive to be on the Part year work and you are guaranteed a salary every month. I actually enjoyed being paid to go travelling for a couple of months and would probably do it again voluntarily in the future
Except they don't pay for their type rating and uniform, are covered by the same scheduling agreement as everyone else and are employed on a permanent contract in the UK at the end of their first 6 months.
1. Monarch have it agreed that 20% of the FOs at any time are on 85% contracts through the union.
2. As spider man said, all cadets join Monarch on exactly the same Ts and Cs.
Last edited by MaxPower2011; 8th Jul 2012 at 14:00.
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This whole thread is getting tedious! If you want to discuss the merits of CTC and Flexicrew then surely a Monarch recruiting thread is not the place to do it.
For info I understand that places to non type rated pilots including some ex military have been offered on a course starting in October. Another rumour doing the rounds internally is that we will not be reopening the recruitment portal soon as we have over 1000 suitable applicants already. That said it may well be that more recruitment will be needed next year. A MAJOR plus in getting an interview is a recommendation from someone in the company.
The interviews are still very old school and consist of a 'chat' with a couple of management pilots.
As has been said above as of this November there will not a single FO at Monarch on a part time contract who has not volunteered to do so.
There is still no announcement about the future of the A330 fleet but this must be imminent, the possibility of requiring a 2 year amortisation period following A330 conversion has been mooted and is causing some consternation among senior FOs.
As for the Easy vs Monarch debate it's horses for courses. Some years ago we lost guys to Easy as they were looking for regional uk/European bases and a fixed roster. Now guys are coming to us as we have permanent contracts, some long haul etc.
I have no experience of Easy and unlike B&B will not demean myself by slagging other people off. What I can say is that on the whole Monarch is a friendly, inclusive place to work. Crewing, despite being under great pressure recently, remain friendly and accommodating wherever possible. A hard wotking BALPA Cc supported by very high membership levels have secured us T&Cs that are amongst the best in the country Pilot management are approachable and most importantly I enjoy going to work with a great bunch of lads and lasses.
It's not always a bed of roses but I'm certainly happy where I am.
Congrats to all those who have been offered a course date and good luck to those being interviewed, I look forward to sharing a beer with you some time. To those who have not been offered an interview, if you know someone in the company who may be willing to give you a reference then I would suggest giving them a bell and offering to buy them a drink or two.
For info I understand that places to non type rated pilots including some ex military have been offered on a course starting in October. Another rumour doing the rounds internally is that we will not be reopening the recruitment portal soon as we have over 1000 suitable applicants already. That said it may well be that more recruitment will be needed next year. A MAJOR plus in getting an interview is a recommendation from someone in the company.
The interviews are still very old school and consist of a 'chat' with a couple of management pilots.
As has been said above as of this November there will not a single FO at Monarch on a part time contract who has not volunteered to do so.
There is still no announcement about the future of the A330 fleet but this must be imminent, the possibility of requiring a 2 year amortisation period following A330 conversion has been mooted and is causing some consternation among senior FOs.
As for the Easy vs Monarch debate it's horses for courses. Some years ago we lost guys to Easy as they were looking for regional uk/European bases and a fixed roster. Now guys are coming to us as we have permanent contracts, some long haul etc.
I have no experience of Easy and unlike B&B will not demean myself by slagging other people off. What I can say is that on the whole Monarch is a friendly, inclusive place to work. Crewing, despite being under great pressure recently, remain friendly and accommodating wherever possible. A hard wotking BALPA Cc supported by very high membership levels have secured us T&Cs that are amongst the best in the country Pilot management are approachable and most importantly I enjoy going to work with a great bunch of lads and lasses.
It's not always a bed of roses but I'm certainly happy where I am.
Congrats to all those who have been offered a course date and good luck to those being interviewed, I look forward to sharing a beer with you some time. To those who have not been offered an interview, if you know someone in the company who may be willing to give you a reference then I would suggest giving them a bell and offering to buy them a drink or two.
Last edited by spottyemm; 8th Jul 2012 at 21:31.