Monarch Anyone?
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Whilst we are looking at posting histories consider that those who are so offended by people having an opinion other than their own have a combined posting history of about 10, we're all registered in June/July 2012 and offer very little signal and a great deal of noise. Interesting.
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Monarch has been a more than 50% scheduled airline for over a decade now and is currently more like 80% scheduled, with more scheduled routes, including winter ski, being added all the time. The idea that we have "just" decided to go scheduled is thus rather wide of the mark. A charter flight is by definition profitable (as long as you can add up) as you sell the aircraft for a fixed price when it is hired which covers your costs (including fuel price increases between signing the contract and flying the sectors) - it is then up to the charterer to recover its costs. However, over the last 10 years there has been less charter business around - from the tour operators' point of view, why take the risk chartering a whole aeroplane when you can just buy a block of scheduled seats?
As has been said the numbers of pilots an airline employs is rather meaningless as it is "Full Time Equivalents" that is the important number - many of our pilots are either 75% or 50% of full time or employed on part-year working with some of the winter months off, which other than for a limited quota of new joiners is at the pilot's own choice. If you look at the CAA produced figures Monarch compares pretty favourably with the rest in terms of crew efficiency. 700 to 800 hours a year is typical on the SH FBW fleet, and pilots regularly choose to breach the 90 hours a month contractual limit in return for overtime payments. Given that we are not the worst payers in the industry, this must mean that they like coming to work!
In terms of Shareholder investment, why would a private business be afforded a cash injection of any amount if there was not a vision that there was money to be made in the longer term? No company can rest on its laurels and assume that because it has been around for 45 years it will always be there - the airline business, of all businesses, has no respect for past heritage and it is the hard numbers that count. Nevertheless, over that 45 years Monarch has quietly adapted to change, usually under other airlines' radars, the transition to scheduled flights being a prime example where most observers simply haven't noticed. All this whilst quietly pioneering new technology such as the B757 to cite an old example and fitting Class 2 EFBs to its aircraft as a more recent one.
Monarch is not afraid to take on the competition, and where it does it usually wins market share until it is the most popular airline on that route. We have moved to take over some of the Baby routes from EMA, but notice that this is a small fraction of the total routes that Baby flew. Our operations in the Baby/Jet2 part of the UK in Birmingham and Manchester (where we are the largest operator bar none) have been very successful, and we look forward to growing those businesses in a measured way and taking on new bases where this is prudent. Far from being a "reckless" expansion it is simply taking advantage of the market as it presents itself, leaving other airlines trailing in its wake, and incidentally those airlines have made no secret that they are pretty hacked off about it, as has been evidenced in part here I suspect.
A recession means you have to do what you have been doing well better, cut out the dead wood and become more efficient, advertise to keep your customers doing what they know they really want to, and treat your competitors with the utmost respect whilst trying to pinch their business!
As has been said the numbers of pilots an airline employs is rather meaningless as it is "Full Time Equivalents" that is the important number - many of our pilots are either 75% or 50% of full time or employed on part-year working with some of the winter months off, which other than for a limited quota of new joiners is at the pilot's own choice. If you look at the CAA produced figures Monarch compares pretty favourably with the rest in terms of crew efficiency. 700 to 800 hours a year is typical on the SH FBW fleet, and pilots regularly choose to breach the 90 hours a month contractual limit in return for overtime payments. Given that we are not the worst payers in the industry, this must mean that they like coming to work!
In terms of Shareholder investment, why would a private business be afforded a cash injection of any amount if there was not a vision that there was money to be made in the longer term? No company can rest on its laurels and assume that because it has been around for 45 years it will always be there - the airline business, of all businesses, has no respect for past heritage and it is the hard numbers that count. Nevertheless, over that 45 years Monarch has quietly adapted to change, usually under other airlines' radars, the transition to scheduled flights being a prime example where most observers simply haven't noticed. All this whilst quietly pioneering new technology such as the B757 to cite an old example and fitting Class 2 EFBs to its aircraft as a more recent one.
Monarch is not afraid to take on the competition, and where it does it usually wins market share until it is the most popular airline on that route. We have moved to take over some of the Baby routes from EMA, but notice that this is a small fraction of the total routes that Baby flew. Our operations in the Baby/Jet2 part of the UK in Birmingham and Manchester (where we are the largest operator bar none) have been very successful, and we look forward to growing those businesses in a measured way and taking on new bases where this is prudent. Far from being a "reckless" expansion it is simply taking advantage of the market as it presents itself, leaving other airlines trailing in its wake, and incidentally those airlines have made no secret that they are pretty hacked off about it, as has been evidenced in part here I suspect.
A recession means you have to do what you have been doing well better, cut out the dead wood and become more efficient, advertise to keep your customers doing what they know they really want to, and treat your competitors with the utmost respect whilst trying to pinch their business!
I applaud any airline offering permanent contracts and not the morally bankrupt pay by the block hour contracts that seem to be the norm with low cost carriers! Faced with the choice of leaving my family and working hour to hour in a European base not of my choosing or a permanent contract at base I can request, the decision is an easy one to make! Good luck to all those in the running. What does p**s me off is that the overall winners will be CTC!
Last edited by Marvo; 16th Jul 2012 at 20:55.
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Really surprised that no-one has yet mentioned the pension deficit that they've run up , we're talking hundreds of millions of pounds here . And about ten million (?) a year from the company goes into attempting to reduce this for the next 20 years or so.
Interesting times at ZB - this new commercial head (who doesnt seem to stick around long anywhere - source , LinkedIn) really isn't afraid to take risks with regard to new routes/bases , and so for the first time there is no "quietly adapting to change" , its a full on ZB assault , albeit about 10 years too late in my view.
MON were losing money and it wasn't working . Long haul was pretty well non-existant (bar Hadj and MOD) , small tour ops charter was dying post XL and recession , so with this new found cash injection from Lugano , it had to be ZB and a complete change in company policy , or bust (excuse the pun) .
However still in 2012 , the uk lo-co market is saturated , there's still a recession on , and there is literally nowhere else to go for MON's new aircraft, hence the almost desperate steps of announcing Ema and extra Bhx post the Baby shutdown. The subbing in of 4 737 aircraft , in what i can only think is an airport slot gaining exercise , is again risky in terms of pax perception , and financially hopeless!
Don't get me wrong - this might work , and it needs to -and JS will be seen as the saviour of LU2 , it might however not , and then things get nasty.
I agree with brakedwell when he notices the similarities between Air Europe and MON dramatically increasing their fleet size during a recesssion (note i've used that word 3 times now) , and whereas in 1991 MON survived cos of Euroberlin , now they've only got ZB.
If you are a cadet or stuck on a TP (and they like Flybe!) then definitely go for it in order to get some jet hours . Otherwise , i would seriously heed the advice of some on here (i'm even agreeing with B+B!) and proceed with caution.....
Interesting times at ZB - this new commercial head (who doesnt seem to stick around long anywhere - source , LinkedIn) really isn't afraid to take risks with regard to new routes/bases , and so for the first time there is no "quietly adapting to change" , its a full on ZB assault , albeit about 10 years too late in my view.
MON were losing money and it wasn't working . Long haul was pretty well non-existant (bar Hadj and MOD) , small tour ops charter was dying post XL and recession , so with this new found cash injection from Lugano , it had to be ZB and a complete change in company policy , or bust (excuse the pun) .
However still in 2012 , the uk lo-co market is saturated , there's still a recession on , and there is literally nowhere else to go for MON's new aircraft, hence the almost desperate steps of announcing Ema and extra Bhx post the Baby shutdown. The subbing in of 4 737 aircraft , in what i can only think is an airport slot gaining exercise , is again risky in terms of pax perception , and financially hopeless!
Don't get me wrong - this might work , and it needs to -and JS will be seen as the saviour of LU2 , it might however not , and then things get nasty.
I agree with brakedwell when he notices the similarities between Air Europe and MON dramatically increasing their fleet size during a recesssion (note i've used that word 3 times now) , and whereas in 1991 MON survived cos of Euroberlin , now they've only got ZB.
If you are a cadet or stuck on a TP (and they like Flybe!) then definitely go for it in order to get some jet hours . Otherwise , i would seriously heed the advice of some on here (i'm even agreeing with B+B!) and proceed with caution.....
Plumbum Pendular
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the almost desperate steps of announcing Ema and extra Bhx post the Baby shutdown
Monarch are taking advantage of a few of the routes left open by BMI Baby and not the non profitable ones.
The subbing in of 4 737 aircraft , in what i can only think is an airport slot gaining exercise
By your argument they must have been desperate too then!
On most of the routes we do we hold the highest market share and the ones where we don't we hold 2nd place.
Yes we did make a loss but it can't be compared to other airlines as the money set up is completely different. The shareholder takes money out so we don't have the cash in the bank that other airlines do, but when we need cash he lets us have some back.
Bear in mind also that in the loss we made quite a bit of that was money paid to the shareholder in lease costs for the aeroplanes. A bit of smoke and mirrors but things weren't as bad as the bottom line might make it seem.
There does seem to be sour grapes against Monarch and I would imagine that a lot of it is O'Leary stooges as he is upset that we beat him into EMA.
To that end I don't know why I am getting sucked in by the Trolls!
EDIT TO SAY:
Having read DjerbaDevil's posts in other threads he is obviously a Jet 2 man, one of the other airlines beaten to EMA and we are now launching from LBA this winter so no sour grapes there!!!
Last edited by fmgc; 16th Jul 2012 at 22:16.
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Seems to me people are quitting good jobs to go to monarch, and most people would love to join! If I was to listen to any uk operators employees ( don't include ryan!!! Yes I know ei but mostly uk ops) they hate work! Monarch seems a place of contentment, that's Novel these days, good on them!
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So with all this talk about great negativity from people designed to stir up anti-Monarch feelings, I'd like to ask the question, genuinely to those who are more in the know than us:
Do we know what the future plans of Monarch are?
From what I hear, the new routes out of BHX are doing excellently, and giving "the largest regional airline" a little bit of a pasting on the routes they are competing on. But this expansion out of BHX and EMA, is it going to be part of a continued expansion plan? Or is it just capitalising on the bmiBaby routes? Would there be further plans for expanding the airline and route network too?
All this talk about negativity and the airline not knowing what they are doing, is a bit insane. In my opinion, there's got to be a plan... BHX has always been an under-served airport in terms of many routes and I think that MON are filing the void very nicely at the moment.
The problem with EMA would be the direct competition against Jet2, who I believe could well be their largest competitor at the moment.
I'm sure the answers lie somewhere in the previous pages, but sifting through pages of people saying "You're all fools for applying" doesn't really appeal to me right now.
Do we know what the future plans of Monarch are?
From what I hear, the new routes out of BHX are doing excellently, and giving "the largest regional airline" a little bit of a pasting on the routes they are competing on. But this expansion out of BHX and EMA, is it going to be part of a continued expansion plan? Or is it just capitalising on the bmiBaby routes? Would there be further plans for expanding the airline and route network too?
All this talk about negativity and the airline not knowing what they are doing, is a bit insane. In my opinion, there's got to be a plan... BHX has always been an under-served airport in terms of many routes and I think that MON are filing the void very nicely at the moment.
The problem with EMA would be the direct competition against Jet2, who I believe could well be their largest competitor at the moment.
I'm sure the answers lie somewhere in the previous pages, but sifting through pages of people saying "You're all fools for applying" doesn't really appeal to me right now.
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To correct some of the wrongly stated facts above:
Monarch have been at BHX for 15 plus years.
Hour wise I think most Monarch fbw full time captains are flying between 700 and 850 hours year - some are doing more. There is a shortage of crew at present otherwise we would not be wet leasing in additional capacity.
Of the employers/airlines I've worked for Monarch is not perfect (tell me an airline that is) but they are by far and away the best employer I've had.
Monarch have been at BHX for 15 plus years.
Hour wise I think most Monarch fbw full time captains are flying between 700 and 850 hours year - some are doing more. There is a shortage of crew at present otherwise we would not be wet leasing in additional capacity.
Of the employers/airlines I've worked for Monarch is not perfect (tell me an airline that is) but they are by far and away the best employer I've had.
Plumbum Pendular
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There is a shortage of crew at present otherwise we would not be wet leasing in additional capacity
To answer an earlier question there was going to be an expansion anyway but the demise of BMI Baby has accelerated the plans.
Last edited by fmgc; 17th Jul 2012 at 16:41.
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We just couldn't get the airplanes or crews trained in time for the short lead time into these new routes, we would have had to wet lease anyway.
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No you're just standing far away.
So they didn't fancy their chances against BMI baby? I don't fancy their chances then.
So they didn't fancy their chances against BMI baby? I don't fancy their chances then.
Last edited by BlackandBrown; 17th Jul 2012 at 17:47.
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Courses Booked
I have heard from Management that they are now recruiting for courses in April for the Airbus, no idea about the 75, but I think it was one course planned.
Again, none of this is concrete, just what I've heard from the inside.
Again, none of this is concrete, just what I've heard from the inside.
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B&B, a long time ago you stated you were leaving this discussion, what changed your mind? Nobody missed you. we get it, Mon not for you although our famous selection procedure (tw@t test) should ensure we never have the displeasure of your company anyway. Your ill informed outsiders opinion is neither constructive or helpful, merely negative towards a company you have no connection to or desire to join. It was previously stated there was always an intention to expand, the sad demise of baby just increased the opportunities and hopefully we can hoover up some of the experienced guys that find themselves in an unfortunate position now.
Seriously, didn't daddy love you enough? Or did Uncle Bob love you too much?
Go get a hobby.
Seriously, didn't daddy love you enough? Or did Uncle Bob love you too much?
Go get a hobby.
Gunka
Like it!
Never worked for Monarch but have always thought of them as a good an employer as any out there. Not flash but they have survived the hard times that others have not. I'm sure it's not perfect there but where is? Good luck to all the guys applying to them.
Like it!
Never worked for Monarch but have always thought of them as a good an employer as any out there. Not flash but they have survived the hard times that others have not. I'm sure it's not perfect there but where is? Good luck to all the guys applying to them.
Going slowly bust?
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Ohh B&B how you have a short memory. Monarch is currently experiencing growing pains as your beloved Easyjet did couple of years ago. Who can forget the absolute ball ache you lot endured during that summer.
Easyjet got it so wrong that year, they turned to Monarch for a short lease at LGW as crews were maxed out. Not slagging off Easyjet in anyway as BA suffered the same fate and called in Monarch.
Now it's our turn
And let's not forget the PM you sent me registering a lil interest in Monarch few months back. You're permanent and safe in Easy, many of your colleagues are not so fortunate. No idea if it's down to BALPA screwing you over or vice versa.
Wind your neck in
Easyjet got it so wrong that year, they turned to Monarch for a short lease at LGW as crews were maxed out. Not slagging off Easyjet in anyway as BA suffered the same fate and called in Monarch.
Now it's our turn
And let's not forget the PM you sent me registering a lil interest in Monarch few months back. You're permanent and safe in Easy, many of your colleagues are not so fortunate. No idea if it's down to BALPA screwing you over or vice versa.
Wind your neck in
Last edited by ATIS; 18th Jul 2012 at 16:12.
