RYR management tour bases
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FR have 4 billion Euro worth of wiggle room. That is the money that buys countries, Ireland is in trouble financially and that kind of money can grease the path of many a politician.
I heard all this many years ago and many years before that too, and now it is "When the government do this ." Guys the only people who can do anything about this is YOU. The problem is you are scattered to the four winds. The posting that says you need one contract negotiated is correct and that contract need to be negotiated by a group with your backing (a strong pilot group voted for by you) Divide and conquer has worked for FR for many many years and it will continue to do so unless you get together.
Everyone worldwide in every airline knows about FR, you have a choice either sort it out and make your airline somewhere worth working and being proud of or leave it to be the sweat shop factory where people just work until they have the experience to go elsewhere. Remember though that this management style is pervasive and other companies are slowly latching on to it and as such if it is not stopped you might just find you have nowhere else to go.
I heard all this many years ago and many years before that too, and now it is "When the government do this ." Guys the only people who can do anything about this is YOU. The problem is you are scattered to the four winds. The posting that says you need one contract negotiated is correct and that contract need to be negotiated by a group with your backing (a strong pilot group voted for by you) Divide and conquer has worked for FR for many many years and it will continue to do so unless you get together.
Everyone worldwide in every airline knows about FR, you have a choice either sort it out and make your airline somewhere worth working and being proud of or leave it to be the sweat shop factory where people just work until they have the experience to go elsewhere. Remember though that this management style is pervasive and other companies are slowly latching on to it and as such if it is not stopped you might just find you have nowhere else to go.
Last edited by felixthecat; 4th Mar 2011 at 05:59.
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Am I the only one feeling a growing sense of deja vu reading this thread ?
I would wager that in a few months time, whatever has been proposed, be it 5/3 or a pay freeze/cut, will have been bulldozed through with no more effective resistance than pages and pages of whingeing on here and REPA.
I would love you guys to prove me wrong, but well, I dont believe in the tooth fairy either , so mark me as a disillusioned realist
I would wager that in a few months time, whatever has been proposed, be it 5/3 or a pay freeze/cut, will have been bulldozed through with no more effective resistance than pages and pages of whingeing on here and REPA.
I would love you guys to prove me wrong, but well, I dont believe in the tooth fairy either , so mark me as a disillusioned realist
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I took one of your company flights this week and noticed the following comment, from Michael O'Leary, in the in flight magazine
It seemed relevant to post it, since it is a public statement of strategic intent (albeit unwlecome to employees) and I shall make no comment as this thread is clearly for Ryanair employees.
Only by continuously challenging accepted conventions and questioning costs can we continue to lower costs and fares, while improving our customer service.
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A few FACTS:
1-the company has been reporting profits and even paid dividends to its shareholders in the past years
2-new bases have gone from 5/4 to 5/3 apart from the Canary ones
3-salaries have gone down for those employed by FR due lower sector pay and higher Irish tax
4-salaries have gone considerably down for new BRK pilots due 10% lower figures + 3% deduction for accountants + higher Irish tax
5-Now every one pays for HOTAC and eventually rental cars to/from SIM, uniform, medical,car park, IDs, own food and water
6-NO benefit whatsoever unless you pay for it yourself (pension,LOL,healthcare etc)
7-NO willingness to base people where they would like, scientific method of not having too many of the same nationality in their home country
All of this applies to pilots who often fly to the legal yearly max ,especially Captains, making FR pilots virtually the most efficient ones in the whole industry.
Different ballgame for F/Os who often find themselves flying much less than expected therefore making much less than advertised but still having to sit around for free on STBY some 2-3 hours away from home while yet another pay to fly cadet takes their flight.
DECAY is the word that sums it all.
Some more rumors now:
apparently the German tax authorities are after HHN pilots and cabin attendants looking for unpaid taxes in Germany regardless of what MOL and his "tax experts' claim to be the right way to go.
I was told that these pilots and cabin attendant got together and are trying to fight back with the help of a lawyer, with no help nor assistance from FR/BRK.
A similar investigation is under way in Italy and Spain as well, I was told.
Not a bright picture at all.
No wonder so many are resigning as we speak and crew control are calling people to fly on days off.
Going back to the topic now, it would be useful to post here any news about these base visits so that crews in other bases know what to expect and be ready to fight back (yeah right
) or just make that last mouse click to complete that application form...
1-the company has been reporting profits and even paid dividends to its shareholders in the past years
2-new bases have gone from 5/4 to 5/3 apart from the Canary ones
3-salaries have gone down for those employed by FR due lower sector pay and higher Irish tax
4-salaries have gone considerably down for new BRK pilots due 10% lower figures + 3% deduction for accountants + higher Irish tax
5-Now every one pays for HOTAC and eventually rental cars to/from SIM, uniform, medical,car park, IDs, own food and water
6-NO benefit whatsoever unless you pay for it yourself (pension,LOL,healthcare etc)
7-NO willingness to base people where they would like, scientific method of not having too many of the same nationality in their home country
All of this applies to pilots who often fly to the legal yearly max ,especially Captains, making FR pilots virtually the most efficient ones in the whole industry.
Different ballgame for F/Os who often find themselves flying much less than expected therefore making much less than advertised but still having to sit around for free on STBY some 2-3 hours away from home while yet another pay to fly cadet takes their flight.
DECAY is the word that sums it all.
Some more rumors now:
apparently the German tax authorities are after HHN pilots and cabin attendants looking for unpaid taxes in Germany regardless of what MOL and his "tax experts' claim to be the right way to go.
I was told that these pilots and cabin attendant got together and are trying to fight back with the help of a lawyer, with no help nor assistance from FR/BRK.
A similar investigation is under way in Italy and Spain as well, I was told.
Not a bright picture at all.
No wonder so many are resigning as we speak and crew control are calling people to fly on days off.
Going back to the topic now, it would be useful to post here any news about these base visits so that crews in other bases know what to expect and be ready to fight back (yeah right
) or just make that last mouse click to complete that application form...
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Personally i cannot wait for Bellew and his muppets to come to my base cos i want my say and no longer give a **** if i stay or go.
That fat **** is going to get a piece of my mind this time round.
BALPA were pissing about last time round and advised on the last vote that we should vote no!!
You only have 2 weapons
1. Vote NO
2.**** off somewhere else
Or even better ..do both.
That fat **** is going to get a piece of my mind this time round.
BALPA were pissing about last time round and advised on the last vote that we should vote no!!
You only have 2 weapons
1. Vote NO
2.**** off somewhere else
Or even better ..do both.
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piloti999,
I have a wife and 2 kids, they live about 2 hours away from my base and I see them in my days off because there is no chance for me to be based where I have been asking for a LONG time now (if you like maths I see my family 6 months a year considering the roster pattern and annual leave).
I also have friends, most of them live where my family lives; I also have friends here at my base and we are all a bunch of nice guys living in a foreign country 2 hours away from our families and friends and since I don't particularly like hanging out with 20 years old cadets with pimples or with eastern european cabin attendants looking for a husband I end up with grownups who do bitch because they have good reasons.
Now if you don't like what we talk about here and you are happy with your package and with your lifestyle you are free to hangout on happier websites where you can give your potential a chance like here Drinking Beer - Always a good idea
or here Stag Republic - Stag Party Abroad: Budapest, Krakow, Riga, Warsaw and Bratislava
I have a wife and 2 kids, they live about 2 hours away from my base and I see them in my days off because there is no chance for me to be based where I have been asking for a LONG time now (if you like maths I see my family 6 months a year considering the roster pattern and annual leave).
I also have friends, most of them live where my family lives; I also have friends here at my base and we are all a bunch of nice guys living in a foreign country 2 hours away from our families and friends and since I don't particularly like hanging out with 20 years old cadets with pimples or with eastern european cabin attendants looking for a husband I end up with grownups who do bitch because they have good reasons.
Now if you don't like what we talk about here and you are happy with your package and with your lifestyle you are free to hangout on happier websites where you can give your potential a chance like here Drinking Beer - Always a good idea
or here Stag Republic - Stag Party Abroad: Budapest, Krakow, Riga, Warsaw and Bratislava
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I remember when pilots were away when working and saw their family only on days OFF. My father has been a pilot for 35 years and i saw him 3 days a week max for all my youth. I dont see it as a problem, cause this is one of the things didnt change in aviation. The rest has quite changed!!!
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Damianik,
in this profession one takes being gone working as part of the game if you fly for airlines that have layovers.
Different thing when you fly for one that advertises being home every night but then doesn't give you the base of choice even if you find someone same rank to swap with.
in this profession one takes being gone working as part of the game if you fly for airlines that have layovers.
Different thing when you fly for one that advertises being home every night but then doesn't give you the base of choice even if you find someone same rank to swap with.
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I am an Ex, so i understand what u mean, what i try to say is that i worked for many other airlines and having 5/4 is a dream for us outside of ryanair, money is almost the same, aircraft are quite older, CRM is not so good and you are based 90% away from "home" cause no other airline has a base in every other airport.
So i say, Ryanair has lots of problems, but commuting and rostering is definitely the least of it.
So i say, Ryanair has lots of problems, but commuting and rostering is definitely the least of it.
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Stev,
Some of your colleagues on RYR contracts joined having taken voluntary redundancy from other airlines where there was virtually a BALPA closed shop.
The payouts they got were sums of money (mostly tax free) that would make your eyes water.
You can knock BALPA (we all can) but some guys have clearly been better off with it than those without.
Some of your colleagues on RYR contracts joined having taken voluntary redundancy from other airlines where there was virtually a BALPA closed shop.
The payouts they got were sums of money (mostly tax free) that would make your eyes water.
You can knock BALPA (we all can) but some guys have clearly been better off with it than those without.
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I am an Ex, so i understand what u mean, what i try to say is that i worked for many other airlines and having 5/4 is a dream for us outside of ryanair, money is almost the same, aircraft are quite older, CRM is not so good and you are based 90% away from "home" cause no other airline has a base in every other airport.
By the way, if I ever flew 900ish hours/year (never happens) as my buddy in FR I would be making almost twice as much as he makes ,I don't have 5/4 but unlike him I can bid for destinations/pairings/days off/annual leave , my aircraft isn't that new but I have ACARS/CPDLC/EFB and don't need to continuously ask ATC for WX or carry Jeppy charts from the crew room, CRM is mostly at high standard in EU airlines so I guess you ended up somewhere east in the right hand seat.....
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I have been an airline pilot for the last 15 years. I joined FR as FC and left again after less than a year. A lot of pilotīs cabincrew and management behave like General aviation.
Flying around with photo copyīs app plates, out of date plates if you forget to check the dates of the copyīs. All pilotīs or most are scared of doing mistakes, even if thay write something wrong on the plog/flightplan.
FOīs going behind FC back and not sticking to the truth if some small mistake happend (Not air safety) For instance write 30 kilo to much on the plog if 300 kilo is max exstra fuel with out reason.
Base captains act like idiotīs shouting to FOīs in the crewroom if thay forget something, cabin crews work as slaves. Work when thay are sick, even if thay have a fleu. Also FO fly if thay have a flew - Have sent a couple home because crew meeting up when thay are sick.
FR is the most unprofessional Airline to date when it comes to management. And whoīs fault is it - Pilotīs and Cabincrew..!! FR is only a money machine to make money no matter how its been done. Thay donīt care to manage an Airline - The only thing that countīs is MONEY.
If you donīt like to be a place, and get treated like a slave - LEAVE. You only have one life. Life is not money, but happyness.. Many forget to live there life normal rather living in a suitcase working for a maniac to MOL and his management.
I left because im not a person who whant to be treated like an idiot, and see other act as idiotīs.
I know many have wrote there expression here, so here is just another one..
To you who still are at FR. Stick together no matter what. Donīt treat your colleage as an ashole just so you think you can benefitt something - No matter if you are FC/FO ,Cabincrew, Base cpt, Supervisor,Linetraining inst, and etc.
Flying around with photo copyīs app plates, out of date plates if you forget to check the dates of the copyīs. All pilotīs or most are scared of doing mistakes, even if thay write something wrong on the plog/flightplan.
FOīs going behind FC back and not sticking to the truth if some small mistake happend (Not air safety) For instance write 30 kilo to much on the plog if 300 kilo is max exstra fuel with out reason.
Base captains act like idiotīs shouting to FOīs in the crewroom if thay forget something, cabin crews work as slaves. Work when thay are sick, even if thay have a fleu. Also FO fly if thay have a flew - Have sent a couple home because crew meeting up when thay are sick.
FR is the most unprofessional Airline to date when it comes to management. And whoīs fault is it - Pilotīs and Cabincrew..!! FR is only a money machine to make money no matter how its been done. Thay donīt care to manage an Airline - The only thing that countīs is MONEY.
If you donīt like to be a place, and get treated like a slave - LEAVE. You only have one life. Life is not money, but happyness.. Many forget to live there life normal rather living in a suitcase working for a maniac to MOL and his management.
I left because im not a person who whant to be treated like an idiot, and see other act as idiotīs.
I know many have wrote there expression here, so here is just another one..
To you who still are at FR. Stick together no matter what. Donīt treat your colleage as an ashole just so you think you can benefitt something - No matter if you are FC/FO ,Cabincrew, Base cpt, Supervisor,Linetraining inst, and etc.
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@ Damianik,
oh rostering is definitely an issue. And the roster is a big mess with some BRK people having 5 days standby, even several weeks in a row! Which means on the BRK contract you dont make a penny!
All 2500 pilots and their families are bleeding under the silly Leave system in RYR with the mandatory whole calendar month off. This squeezes more working days out of a pilot a year with him loosing out time off. But it works for RYR.
I worked in several companies before as well and indeed I never had 5/4 there, but thats about the only good thing in RYR, because the rest is not.
Apparently DOB was in HHN and although I wasnt there I understand he said the mandatory month off will stay because it is in the contract.
Funny enough more things are in the contract but for some reason these can always be changed easily if it works better for the company.
Also was said that the tax thing with Ireland and Germany is basically the pilots own fault.
About this by the way; Italy is busy to get all RYR and BRK pilots there on a Italian contract! I tell you, the tax thing is going to be a big mess, with pilots being taxed in several countries with both countries refusing to give you your tax back and let you pay in the other country. Rumour has it this is what Ireland will do as well in 2011. Madness! But what to do?
It is a fact the pilots in RYR make less money then before. But they work harder then in many other companies. I have friends in other airlines that make less money but looking at how much they work they relatively make more! Have more time off because they simply have less working days or shorter days. Personally I am approaching the same money as I made many years ago when I was still an FO in the company. Nothing gets better in RYR! Cant mention a single thing. Conditions and pay only go South.
I think a lot of pilots are waiting to see what RYR will offer this year and make a decision based on that. If nothing comes the pilots way except 2 or 3 lousy %'s it will make me leave for sure. And many with me, that's sure.
I have never seen moral so low in our base as it is lately with the operation being a mess, lack off respect for flightdeck crew seems lower than ever. And even RYR made a profit in the whole economical crisis as one of the very few airlines the pilots will have to turn in something again, as always.
All pilots are looking for other jobs with only a few being where they want to be so will put up with it all. RYR have a possible catastrophy on their hands also as 22 year old kids with 1500 hours and a cocky attitude can not be captains yet.
But look under the Ryanair Exodus topic for more of this.
We will see what happens.
oh rostering is definitely an issue. And the roster is a big mess with some BRK people having 5 days standby, even several weeks in a row! Which means on the BRK contract you dont make a penny!
All 2500 pilots and their families are bleeding under the silly Leave system in RYR with the mandatory whole calendar month off. This squeezes more working days out of a pilot a year with him loosing out time off. But it works for RYR.
I worked in several companies before as well and indeed I never had 5/4 there, but thats about the only good thing in RYR, because the rest is not.
Apparently DOB was in HHN and although I wasnt there I understand he said the mandatory month off will stay because it is in the contract.
Funny enough more things are in the contract but for some reason these can always be changed easily if it works better for the company.
Also was said that the tax thing with Ireland and Germany is basically the pilots own fault.
About this by the way; Italy is busy to get all RYR and BRK pilots there on a Italian contract! I tell you, the tax thing is going to be a big mess, with pilots being taxed in several countries with both countries refusing to give you your tax back and let you pay in the other country. Rumour has it this is what Ireland will do as well in 2011. Madness! But what to do?
It is a fact the pilots in RYR make less money then before. But they work harder then in many other companies. I have friends in other airlines that make less money but looking at how much they work they relatively make more! Have more time off because they simply have less working days or shorter days. Personally I am approaching the same money as I made many years ago when I was still an FO in the company. Nothing gets better in RYR! Cant mention a single thing. Conditions and pay only go South.
I think a lot of pilots are waiting to see what RYR will offer this year and make a decision based on that. If nothing comes the pilots way except 2 or 3 lousy %'s it will make me leave for sure. And many with me, that's sure.
I have never seen moral so low in our base as it is lately with the operation being a mess, lack off respect for flightdeck crew seems lower than ever. And even RYR made a profit in the whole economical crisis as one of the very few airlines the pilots will have to turn in something again, as always.
All pilots are looking for other jobs with only a few being where they want to be so will put up with it all. RYR have a possible catastrophy on their hands also as 22 year old kids with 1500 hours and a cocky attitude can not be captains yet.
But look under the Ryanair Exodus topic for more of this.
We will see what happens.
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I remember when pilots were away when working and saw their family only on days OFF. My father has been a pilot for 35 years and i saw him 3 days a week max for all my youth. I dont see it as a problem, cause this is one of the things didnt change in aviation. The rest has quite changed!!!
I have spent nearly all of my 20 years + flying career flying short haul "out and back", and from the same airport too ! The vast majority of that has not involved me overnighting away from base, unless for technical reasons. During that time, I watched my kids grow up from toddlers to young adults who have now left the nest. They used to see me seven days a week. I know, I am one of the lucky ones, but it is possible to be in this business and see your children most of the time. I do feel genuinely sorry for the guys with families who are based away from home due to Ryanair's ridiculous basing policy.
I always smile cynically when I read the Ryanair recruitment propaganda that states "no overnights"
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And whoīs fault is it - Pilotīs and Cabincrew..!!
t.Cheap cadets steal the job of experienced pilots from smaller companies on light jet or turboprop, that makes Ryanair one of the biggest companies in the world hiring unexperienced and cheap cadets straight on B737-800. Cheap cadets from CTC and Ryanair are the cancer of aviation. You don't have this crap in the USA, Canada, Asia, Australia.
People joining Ryanair as a slave will never improve their conditions. The only way to improve their conditions is to resign and go to other companies. You get what you deserve. Easyjet and Ryanair are similar to Southwest Airlines (USA) but in Sh
T.I really am sorry but I do not have any sympathy for you guys.
