RYR management tour bases
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Boeingflyer - you are painting an incorrect picture of life at Ryanair as an FO. I have been permanently based at two bases in the 3.5 years since I joined Ryanair and have had four different base captains - none of which have ever shouted at me for doing anything wrong. You might get the odd example of it somewhere but it simply is not a common occurrence.
The Jeppesen plates are not photocopies. They are printed straight out by laser printer and I have never heard of anyone having a problem reading them or making an error because of them.
No one I have met is scared of making a mistake. If you do, just own up to it, speak to your base captain and it's fine (depending how bad your mistake is of course.) Even with the odd serious flying error which occurs, the philosophy is to speak to your base captain, if necessary a chat with the Chief Pilot, go back in the sim for an hour or two and you're released back onto the line after a line check and no one says a word about it again.
Wind check - you are also talking nonsense about cadets "stealing" jobs. If you are offered a jet job as a cadet, who in their right mind will turn it down? Being offered a job by an employer is not stealing. The market has changed. I'm not saying it's right, but it has changed and we all have to deal with it.
All those that talk about uniting and claiming its our own fault - please understand this is virtually impossible when you have a huge mixture of nationalities spread across 45 bases around Europe. Yes, we have accepted these terms and conditions but people should stop moaning. The Ts & Cs are not as good as 10, 20 or 30 years ago but in those days they were ludicrously generous. I still get paid a good salary to go to work about 120 days a year and fly great reliable aircraft with pleasant, professional colleagues who are good fun to fly with.
I see my future outside Ryanair and would like to leave for pastures new at some stage but I am not in a huge hurry as life there really is fine in the main, with the odd irritating issue of going out of base for a week or not getting the leave you want. How many airlines are perfect in that way anyway?
The Jeppesen plates are not photocopies. They are printed straight out by laser printer and I have never heard of anyone having a problem reading them or making an error because of them.
No one I have met is scared of making a mistake. If you do, just own up to it, speak to your base captain and it's fine (depending how bad your mistake is of course.) Even with the odd serious flying error which occurs, the philosophy is to speak to your base captain, if necessary a chat with the Chief Pilot, go back in the sim for an hour or two and you're released back onto the line after a line check and no one says a word about it again.
Wind check - you are also talking nonsense about cadets "stealing" jobs. If you are offered a jet job as a cadet, who in their right mind will turn it down? Being offered a job by an employer is not stealing. The market has changed. I'm not saying it's right, but it has changed and we all have to deal with it.
All those that talk about uniting and claiming its our own fault - please understand this is virtually impossible when you have a huge mixture of nationalities spread across 45 bases around Europe. Yes, we have accepted these terms and conditions but people should stop moaning. The Ts & Cs are not as good as 10, 20 or 30 years ago but in those days they were ludicrously generous. I still get paid a good salary to go to work about 120 days a year and fly great reliable aircraft with pleasant, professional colleagues who are good fun to fly with.
I see my future outside Ryanair and would like to leave for pastures new at some stage but I am not in a huge hurry as life there really is fine in the main, with the odd irritating issue of going out of base for a week or not getting the leave you want. How many airlines are perfect in that way anyway?
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Boeingflue
Quote - Flying around with photo copy“s app plates, out of date plates if you forget to check the dates of the copy“s.
Never once flew with a photo copied approach plate - all are printed out if required with the jeppy updates. Checking the dates is just part of the pre departure routine, and only takes a few seconds.
As for the General Aviation comment............
Some direct entry Captains are not able to adapt to change
Quote - Flying around with photo copy“s app plates, out of date plates if you forget to check the dates of the copy“s.
Never once flew with a photo copied approach plate - all are printed out if required with the jeppy updates. Checking the dates is just part of the pre departure routine, and only takes a few seconds.
As for the General Aviation comment............
Some direct entry Captains are not able to adapt to change
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If you are offered a jet job as a cadet, who in their right mind will turn it down?
no salary during training until the line check, then 18 GBP/hours, no fix salary, OPC/LPC, medical, uniform, food at your own expense...C'MON my friend, Jet Job means slavery job with Ryanair. You would have earned and learnt more by building experience with regional companies and after a couple of years you would then have joined Ryanair or Easyjet with better conditions and salary (in a normal world).
Now, you'll get soon your 5/3 roster and then more pay cut and then a 5/2/5/3 roster but you'll be so happy to have started your “carrier“on what you call a jetjob. Go ahead!!
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Wind check - you talk about a 'normal world' . This world no longer exists. As I said, times have changed. I couldn't agree more with you and you are right - that would have been the ideal process that you mentioned. But its one that doesn't exist any more. Sadly, TP pilots are no longer taken on by easyJet and Ryanair.
Your payment figures are incorrect. Cadets do receive payment during line training and the GBP18 figure is not one I have ever heard of.
At the time I took it, my type rating cost GBP 22,000 plus living expenses, so around 25,000. In my first year at Ryanair I earned GBP 46,000. In my second year GBP 52,000 and my third year GBP 55,000. My costs that you mention were uniform about GBP400 which has lasted me so far, annual medical about GBP130 (forget costs of LPC/OPC as that's just automatically taken out of gross pay so the income figures about already factor in the fact that sim training has been paid).
All in all the tea / coffee / food I have to take to work plus occasional new shirt or annual medical equate to an annual equivalent of about GBP300. Big deal. It's by saving these expenses that Ryanair thrives and grows the low cost aviation business.
I'm not saying this is as it should be or the old system didn't create better pilots - it probably did.
What I AM saying is cadets are not stealing jobs. They are job offers on the table which a lot of people find hard to turn down. I applied to dozens of TP operators and small companies when I gained my CPL/IR and didn't receive a single reply. Ryanair offered me a job and I took it and earned (for my level of experience) good money. You're right - there is no guarantee of fixed salary etc. But the figures above speak for themselves.
5/4/5/3/5/2 - whatever the roster - again you cannot argue with the facts. I worked 111 days two years ago and about 120 days last year.
Times have changed my friend and we can't turn back the clock.
Your payment figures are incorrect. Cadets do receive payment during line training and the GBP18 figure is not one I have ever heard of.
At the time I took it, my type rating cost GBP 22,000 plus living expenses, so around 25,000. In my first year at Ryanair I earned GBP 46,000. In my second year GBP 52,000 and my third year GBP 55,000. My costs that you mention were uniform about GBP400 which has lasted me so far, annual medical about GBP130 (forget costs of LPC/OPC as that's just automatically taken out of gross pay so the income figures about already factor in the fact that sim training has been paid).
All in all the tea / coffee / food I have to take to work plus occasional new shirt or annual medical equate to an annual equivalent of about GBP300. Big deal. It's by saving these expenses that Ryanair thrives and grows the low cost aviation business.
I'm not saying this is as it should be or the old system didn't create better pilots - it probably did.
What I AM saying is cadets are not stealing jobs. They are job offers on the table which a lot of people find hard to turn down. I applied to dozens of TP operators and small companies when I gained my CPL/IR and didn't receive a single reply. Ryanair offered me a job and I took it and earned (for my level of experience) good money. You're right - there is no guarantee of fixed salary etc. But the figures above speak for themselves.
5/4/5/3/5/2 - whatever the roster - again you cannot argue with the facts. I worked 111 days two years ago and about 120 days last year.
Times have changed my friend and we can't turn back the clock.
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Anyways... I wish you good luck with your future 5/3 roster that MOL will soon put straight in your open arse
You need to make some effort to compensate the fuel cost
You need to make some effort to compensate the fuel cost
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I am leaving out the standbys (of which of course over the winters there were many) which were spent at home or at the gym or having coffees with friends or playing golf etc etc - hardly a difficult life.
I do, however, understand being on standby if you happen to be based far from home is not a good situation.
A major criticism I have of Ryanair is that the basing policy needs to be clear rather than this random chance of getting your base of preference which is wholly unsatisfactory.
Ryanair are far far far from perfect. But posting on here accusing cadets of stealing jobs and inaccurate postings about base captains shouting at FOs are just nonsense so I came on here to offer a more balanced view.
I do, however, understand being on standby if you happen to be based far from home is not a good situation.
A major criticism I have of Ryanair is that the basing policy needs to be clear rather than this random chance of getting your base of preference which is wholly unsatisfactory.
Ryanair are far far far from perfect. But posting on here accusing cadets of stealing jobs and inaccurate postings about base captains shouting at FOs are just nonsense so I came on here to offer a more balanced view.
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FR1A - Boeingflue, Such kind of speach/Language is why i left FR. You are a god example of how foke“s are treating other people in a company = FR
Tell me, what is the difference between photo copy“s and laser print. As far as i now, laser print is a pour quality than photo copy“s - I can“t see the difference. And also only one copy for the flightdeck, There is 2 pilot“s in a flightdeck so far - Until MOL can change it“
FR1A - Capt who cant adapt the change..
I had no problem at all, but i have heard some coulden“t. And i can understand why it“s so hard for some. FR SOP is so detailed, if you put a wrong Fix ring of 4 or 5 NM even 10NM you will get blaimed for it on a linecheck. If a young FO Forget“s his Fix ring, he don“t know when to select the Flap or even gear.
You see, young cadets learning by memory is much easyer when thay are young. Older guy“s like me that have been flying over 20 years has a lot of experince. But when thing“s are not going the direction you planned as FR pilot, and the only experince - You are lost and do a lot of mistakes.
Flying an visual approach and a FR pilot is lost if LNAV is gone.
FR are scared of pilot“s been pilot“s. Thay use Management by fear through the whole operation - And that“s why i left.. I could tell many FR stories but i gues many of them has been covered. Never than less, im not proud to tell expression“s, it“s more sad that a big company can have a so unprofessional operation and leders. And last, there is a reason why everybody in FR whant“s to leave - If thay could..
Tell me, what is the difference between photo copy“s and laser print. As far as i now, laser print is a pour quality than photo copy“s - I can“t see the difference. And also only one copy for the flightdeck, There is 2 pilot“s in a flightdeck so far - Until MOL can change it“
FR1A - Capt who cant adapt the change..
I had no problem at all, but i have heard some coulden“t. And i can understand why it“s so hard for some. FR SOP is so detailed, if you put a wrong Fix ring of 4 or 5 NM even 10NM you will get blaimed for it on a linecheck. If a young FO Forget“s his Fix ring, he don“t know when to select the Flap or even gear.
You see, young cadets learning by memory is much easyer when thay are young. Older guy“s like me that have been flying over 20 years has a lot of experince. But when thing“s are not going the direction you planned as FR pilot, and the only experince - You are lost and do a lot of mistakes.
Flying an visual approach and a FR pilot is lost if LNAV is gone.
FR are scared of pilot“s been pilot“s. Thay use Management by fear through the whole operation - And that“s why i left.. I could tell many FR stories but i gues many of them has been covered. Never than less, im not proud to tell expression“s, it“s more sad that a big company can have a so unprofessional operation and leders. And last, there is a reason why everybody in FR whant“s to leave - If thay could..
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Your horrible salary and conditions are explained on ppjn, if you dont agree, you'd better give us your correct figures, just to give us a laugh.
Ryanair hires cadets not to make Oxford P2F clients happy, but just because they are worth SH
T and because they will have absolutely nothing to say. You take the crap or you leave it, that's how the rules are at Ryanair.
We are thousands thousands of pilots who really enjoy to see the Ryanair and Easyjet poo sinking from bad to worse, once again, this is what you deserve!!!!
Ryanair hires cadets not to make Oxford P2F clients happy, but just because they are worth SH
T and because they will have absolutely nothing to say. You take the crap or you leave it, that's how the rules are at Ryanair.We are thousands thousands of pilots who really enjoy to see the Ryanair and Easyjet poo sinking from bad to worse, once again, this is what you deserve!!!!
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Windcheck
1. Type rating 35000 -- WRONG. (not anymore)
2. Not paid during line training-- WRONG ( Cadets fly between 90 to 100 hours per month while line training and earn in the region of 2800 to 3000)
3. Paid 18 pounds per hour after line training. --- WRONG
Yet another misinformed Buller let loose on PPRuNe. You base your facts on ppjn?
Did you learn to fly on Wikipedia? Or are we reading posts from a flightsim enthusiast with a really nice camera?
2. Not paid during line training-- WRONG ( Cadets fly between 90 to 100 hours per month while line training and earn in the region of 2800 to 3000)
3. Paid 18 pounds per hour after line training. --- WRONG
Yet another misinformed Bull
er let loose on PPRuNe. You base your facts on ppjn? Did you learn to fly on Wikipedia? Or are we reading posts from a flightsim enthusiast with a really nice camera?
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Perhaps it is time to ask for our own sub-forum at pprune. In that way we can seriously discuss our situations without having to deal with this constant stream of insulting, ill-informed frustrated "colleagues".
The behaviour of certain individuals with regards to their peers is just appalling and completely unjustifiable. By coming onto these threads and throwing a tantrum you're only embarrassing yourself.
All of us here are trying to make the best out of a dire situation and if possible help one-another out by staying informed and sharing knowledge. If you can't contribute positively, remain silent.
The behaviour of certain individuals with regards to their peers is just appalling and completely unjustifiable. By coming onto these threads and throwing a tantrum you're only embarrassing yourself.
All of us here are trying to make the best out of a dire situation and if possible help one-another out by staying informed and sharing knowledge. If you can't contribute positively, remain silent.
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Boeing Pilot ..........I'm not leaving = so not quite everybody whats to leave is it!!!!! ... best roster, best money, best stability,, best job..why would I want to leave.. sand I'm afraid doesn't interest me in the slightest. Probaly some of the best pilots in the industry, some better than others , some worse,
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Reason for base visits
I have a feeling that the base visits will be to inform everyone that ALL bases will be 5/3 during the summer. Its already happened to a few who are in the 'old' bases.
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from pilot999
But as you said in the "What is your take home pay at the end of the month thread" on PPRune back in Feb :-
Your rather wild claim didn't go unnoticed either :-
You also say you are an ordinary line pilot, my basic last month was around £3500, how come yours is £5900 ?!!
Something doesn't quite add up does it ? .....
"Boeing Pilot ..........I'm not leaving = so not quite everybody whats to leave is it!!!!! ... best roster, best money, best stability,, best job..why would I want to leave.. sand I'm afraid doesn't interest me in the slightest. Probaly some of the best pilots in the industry, some better than others , some worse,"
Ryanair ,captain 8 years, 5 on 4 off basic pay net £5900 and sector pay of between £1600 and £2400. In July and August working a few days off, last year pulled in sector pay of £3500, superb pay, and none of the line traing crap either.
Pilot999, you must be working for a different Ryanair.
£5900 basic pay net? So your basic UK salary is in the region of £120,000? plus sector pay on top? Are you a base Capt or Management?
Normal Ryanair Line Capt salary uk is around £55,000 plus sector pay (£3500 net a month basic plus sector pay) + bring your own tea bags and bin liner to work (not joking folks).
£5900 basic pay net? So your basic UK salary is in the region of £120,000? plus sector pay on top? Are you a base Capt or Management?
Normal Ryanair Line Capt salary uk is around £55,000 plus sector pay (£3500 net a month basic plus sector pay) + bring your own tea bags and bin liner to work (not joking folks).
Something doesn't quite add up does it ? .....
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Try getting your tax code correct is a starting point. also my Tea bags cost in the region of pence rather than pounds. And indeed we must be working for another Airline. Without looking too hard I can usually find 40/50 may be more of white plastic bags, Normally a polite "Can I have a rubbish bag" to the crew will produce one with a few seconds to minutes depending how busy they are. Again I have never felt the urge to take in my own bag, why would I???????????
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Anagrams of REPA
1) RAPE what FR has done to the cadets and what is happening to the industry as a whole!!!!
2) REAP what you sow, you bent over and paid for your TR so accept the T&C's that you have brought upon yourself!!!
3) PARE, FR have done to T&C's because pilots have let them!!!
4) PEAR shaped, the way a lot of peoples careers have gone as an FR cadet!!!!
Anyway guys, I urge you guys to accept whatever the management says on the base tours as it means I get to fly cheap. I'm used to flying cheap on ryanair now, I don't think I could face paying a lot to fly again
1) RAPE what FR has done to the cadets and what is happening to the industry as a whole!!!!
2) REAP what you sow, you bent over and paid for your TR so accept the T&C's that you have brought upon yourself!!!
3) PARE, FR have done to T&C's because pilots have let them!!!
4) PEAR shaped, the way a lot of peoples careers have gone as an FR cadet!!!!
Anyway guys, I urge you guys to accept whatever the management says on the base tours as it means I get to fly cheap. I'm used to flying cheap on ryanair now, I don't think I could face paying a lot to fly again
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Smith
I think you need to check what the definition of RAPE is ,, I'll leave that you for you to do, I do however believe 100% that no one at Ryanair has fallen into the rape catergory. May as well check at the same time what Verbal vomit Is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think you need to check what the definition of RAPE is ,, I'll leave that you for you to do, I do however believe 100% that no one at Ryanair has fallen into the rape catergory. May as well check at the same time what Verbal vomit Is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!