Easy worse than Ryanair

[olster]

I always found it amusing during my tenure with the orange mob that somehow they are cuddlier than the Ryans across the Irish Sea.At least with the latter you may have a vague notion that industrial relations were not the priority versus profitability.The orangistas used to invoke,and probably still do the impression that they were more pc,right -on and in the grand tradition of that failed enterprise New Labour one had to be 'orange' which implied 'on message'.I found the whole orange culture rather creepy and cultish and only masked the greed of the managers of that era who mopped up bonuses and shares at a disproportionate amount compared to the pilot community.

I doubt whether that much has changed and in parallel with the rest of the industry there appears to be a concerted effort to drive pilot renumeration towards their favourite comparison,that of the bus driver.Now I do not want to be immodest or unrealistic but the time,effort,study,disruption to circadian rythm and intellect to carry out the job is worth more than that.The voguish,management jibe is that we preside over a set of automatics that essentially fly the aircraft for us.This,as we know is not true as automation/fmc and so on has complicated our tasks in many areas.

My view is that the pilots at easy need to play hard ball to get the results they need.Easy to say from the sidelines I guess.

atb

[stakeknife]

Guys, Southwest management style is a pipe dream on this side of the low cost pond!! The ONLY thing the management are concerned for is the threat of industrial action from the pilots. I don't for one second suggest that the EZY Pilots have any desire to strike but all that I work with are willing to if that is what it takes. Bottom line is that the AMB are only interested in the short term and they will do what they can get away with, Andy H's email started off apologetic yet ended with more lies. Didn't impress me and didn't impress anyone else I know, the board have done a lot to damage pilot engagement and it will take a lot to re build that trust. Rem without the pilots unity this year we would now have no crew food, no tea/coffee or water and be paying for your pass and car park, oh, and prob a pay cut to. hmmmm, Andy h has showed his true colours and it will not be forgotten.

[Mister Geezer]

Mister Geezer has alluded to there being no managment incentive to treat their crews with respect. That is absolutely not the case as has been seen here. What gives them incentive is a strong pilot union sitting across the table from them making it clear that if they continue to be dorks they will have a strike on their hands. The real skill, however, is turning that fighting position into concrete results that bring change. That is where we are at the moment, and only time will tell if we can achieve victories in the above-mentioned areas. I dare to believe we may yet do so.

Having a strong pilot union in the form of BALPA across the table will act as an obstacle to management to initiate any 'foul play'. However this is offset to the same extent by the fact that there will always be people who will gladly accept a Command or indeed a Right Hand Seat on poorer conditions. You only need a handful of 'volunteers' to accept the inferior deal and the new benchmark has been set. The latter forms a very weak union amongst crews and that is far more of a pressing issue. It is far harder to resolve the rot after it has started.

Even if BALPA come to the table and strike action is averted, does that instantly mean that further reductions in Ts and Cs will not be attempted by management? Such an approach in any airline can only be described as being short sighted. Especially so in easyJet, when I consider the rather 'agressive' cost cutting plans that are conveyed to me by friends who are in the company.

[f/spninx]

German Easyjet crews already on strike


Berlin - A two-hour strike Thursday by Easyjet flight deck and cabin staff at Berlin's Schoenefeld Airport disrupted flights to Rome, London and other European cities, airport staff said.
The German staff are demanding that the company recognize a workers' council incorporated under German law. British-based Easyjet refuses to deal the panel representing 300 Germans, according to the ver.di trade union.
Easyjet criticized the protest, saying it was in talks on the subject and would be offering its staff German employment contracts soon. Some 50 staff took part in the stoppage, which ended at 9 am Central European time (0800 GMT).


Read more: Berlin flights to Rome and other cities hit by Easyjet strike - Monsters and Critics

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

That is indeed the case and will no doubt serve to concentrate the minds of people at Hangar 89. Coincidentally, I was at Luton yesterday and there is clearly a desire at the highest level to lay down the confrontational tactics of the past. I do not know the fine detail of the German contract offer but according to one of their Trianing Captains it gives him personally a 30% pay cut and introduces a payscale for new captains that is less than the current pay for First Officers! As I say, I cannot comment on the specifics because I do not know them, but if that is the case then clearly it is unacceptable. Nonetheless, sooner or later we must all talk. It is vital for the whole network to support the German crews in a legitimate dispute, but equally the days of the massive salaries in Berlin are grinding to a halt. By 'massive salaries' I mean the enviable but completely non-sustainable tax arrangements of the past whereby you paid tax nowhere! As I have said on numerous occasions, we have to choose our battles and this may be one of the battles of choice once we know the details. Listening to a couple of very senior managers yesterday I remain of the view that there is a genuine desire to re-engage with us and a real desire to sort out the difficulties. Are they all cuddly and nice to furry animals? Probably not. Neither are they cut-throat scum trying to murder our wives and abduct our children. In the final analysis they are the people with whom we must deal and this is the time to engage with them. I have no doubt that the number one issue on the minds of senior managers at easyJet this morning is how to deal with this Berlin dispute and how to prevent escalation. We too should be having exactly the same thoughts.

[flying headbutt]

Any euro contract must be comparable to the French/Italian/Spanish contracts and that must apply to the current SXF based crews, and, just as importantly to anyone who finds themselves there in the future. No No No to the introduction of B or C scale contracts. We must safeguard ALL of our futures. Anyone thinking of getting a command at EZY, this could define your remuneration for a long time to come. Please do not sell yourselves short

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Thank god there are some easyjet crew willing to stand up to the B-S we are receiving from the AMB. Well done Berlin colleagues. A 2 hour strike may well cause our pax a bit of disruption, which is unfortunate, but it will also make AH and his vile bunch of hatchet men realise that as long as we act collectively, we can cause the airline to grind to a halt. It just takes a bit of courage because we have a cold war on our hands at the moment. They don't believe we will, but will be extremely scared that we just might - if we get our act together.

A union backed strike would see the position of several figures at the top of our empire fall under close scrutiny I would warrant, and the very idea of us acting as a group will be causing them serious pause for thought. It is the real and proper threat of industrial action that will help us win this battle.

Obviously, there will be more conflict ahead, but if we lose this one..........

[captain_quagmire]

A union backed strike would see the position of several figures at the top of our empire fall under close scrutiny I would warrant, and the very idea of us acting as a group will be causing them serious pause for thought. It is the real and proper threat of industrial action that will help us win this battle.

I think gaining a yes vote for IA would put massive pressure on the management as they would see bookings plummet just from this.

I would deem it a very unwise move to actually carry out a large scale strike though;

A. you would have zero public support
B. The company is not a monopoly, therefore carriers like FR would be quick to grab customers that EZY would never gain back.

Good luck to you lot though, well done for standing up for yourselves and i hope this germany strike has set the ball rolling for an agreement to be reached before things turn Industrial

[THE POINTY END]

Having spent a number of years working for Ryanair in the past, I feel as if I'm back there again wearing a different colour. The rot is definitely setting in here at EZY. During the FR days, there were constant rumours of mass sickness etc to make the company listen. Nothing ever materialised, and the results of no action through fear and intimidation speak for themselves. Ryanair have set the lowest bench mark in the industry and every other airline seems to be be in a race to get down there with them.
I've never been a union guy, but it's gonna be a fine line with industrial action to protect the integrity of our position and possibly putting our jobs at risk by disrupting the service.
What I find extremely insulting is that despite our efforts to reduce costs and do our bit for the company. They don't think twice in spending thousands of pounds on 'strategy consultants' to advise them on how to be like Ryanair.
quote:-
Reducing employment costs is only possible if EZY relaxes some of the constraints imposed upon it, eg.
-Local contracts:
contracting crew in lower social security countries.
-Standardised terms and conditions for crew
-De-unionising pilots through use of contracting structures (such as RYR's Brookfield contract) to enable differential pay scales and individually negotiated terms and conditions.
If this is the future, heaven help us.

[Viking101]

NSF

I love your list; its all true and correct.

However, do not expect that the airline management will play true cards, and they will not have the best intention for working class people- its only about the money and contracts...

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Viking101 - I have no doubt that we are dealing with people who are tricky and we must not be unwary. Nonetheless I do believe this is winnable without a strike. I disagree, incidentally, with the view that we should not accept a German contract less than the other European ones. Those contracts are living examples of a combination of a top union and amazing good fortune whereby the deals were done with a high Euro. They pay way more than the Uk contract and I would expect the German contract to be broadly in line with the UK one. As I say, I don't yet know enough to judge how good or bad the offer is. I want to see solutions like everyone else and i believe we will do so.

[Speevy]

NSF, I have lot of respect for you,but you are getting it all wrong about the continantal contract:

The pay is good because the market pays like that!


In Italy, any pilot that would be working for an airline with 20 and plus aircraft would take home as much as me if not more!

The German contract doesn't need to be in line with the UK, it needs to be in line with the local market!

Get your fact straight next time before you discuss about continental contracts..

Speevy

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Speevy - you worry about your 'facts' and I will worry about mine. The Italian contract is fantastic and that is why there is a vast queue of people trying to get there - that is a fact. A contract like that will not happen in Germany and if you delude yourself it will then you will be massively disappointed. Sorry, but that is the harsh fact of this situation.

[Tim Thames]

Hi Norman,

I PM-ed you the German contract proposal.
Look forward to your comments, preferably on the easyJet forum.

Kind regards,

Tim

[Elephant and Castle]

Norman take your blinkers off for a moment. The fact that continental contracts looks good to you from a Pound based perspective is completely irrelevant. Not long ago no one wanted to sign a European contract because they simply paid less than a UK one at the prevailing rate at the time. The move on the exchange rate has not changed the cost of living in France, Italy Germany or Spain. It would be great if we could choose the currency where we earn our salary and the currency where we spend it but alas most of us earn and spend in the same currency. Large currency exchange moves are completely irrelevant to the vast majority of us although we all love to imagine how rich we would be if only we could spend our pounds in Bangladesh.

The fact is that easyJet is very much reaping the benefits of the strong Euro. In Berlin our ticket revenue is in Euros and therefore I see no reason whatever for the pay of german crews to be tied to the relative exchange rate of the pound.

I take it that following your logic once the pound / euro rate goes the other way (as it will surely do) all pay in the continent should be increased?

I am completely bemused that you seem to be defending the introduction of a B scale. I will bet any money that if you base ever closed and you got forcefully "reduncated" to Germany with the pound back at the historical level of 1.5 to the Euro you would be very much of a diferent opinion.

[flying headbutt]

Actually the possibility of relocating to Rome on an Italian contract was not that popular during the 90 day consultation - Fact. There certainly wasn't a stampede. Also, a German contract at parity with the UK contract with the current exchange rate suddenly won't look so clever if sterling ever recovers. I'm starting to get the impression that there are way too many people in the bigger bases sitting fat dumb and happy thinking this isn't going to affect them. Wrong, it's only a matter of time. Apathy is not our friend here. The new German contract has a totally different structure to the present EZY contracts, ie, low basic with the rest made up in sector pay - sound familiar? Either we fight this assault together or eventually we're all screwed. Unfortunately, in this climate an escape tunnel is not really an option otherwise the way things are shaping up, I think I'd already be digging.

[Doug the Head]

I'm a wee bit confused...

Speevy - you worry about your 'facts' and I will worry about mine. The Italian contract is fantastic and that is why there is a vast queue of people trying to get there - that is a fact. A contract like that will not happen in Germany and if you delude yourself it will then you will be massively disappointed. Sorry, but that is the harsh fact of this situation.

Norman, I think I've asked you before [perhaps in the 'Trojan Horse discussion' about giving management access to the private forum (a clear tactical blunder of the first order... )] but with statements like these I will ask you again: which side are you really on?

One thing I've noticed is that you're very good at; procrastinating, trying to 'see the other side' and hiding behind some vague ideology of 'let's all talk, wear pink/orange glasses, work together and be happy forever after' rhetoric whenever the proverbial sh!t hits the fan.

I've also noticed that you are considerably less talented in; being consistent, straightforward, identifying problems and possessing any situational awareness whatsoever to where all this is leading, not just for an individual company but also with regards to the entire aviation profession/industry.

Are you a pilot fighting against the demise of T&C's in this entire industry, or are you merely a management pawn facilitating the divide and conquer strategy? Your posts confuse me, please elaborate...

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Tim - thanks for that. On first glance it does not look good but will read the PDF and comment more on the private forum. Am on the iPhone just now and can't look at it until Tuesday.

Doug - your constant appearances wherever I post to attack me are frankly increasingly amusing. It reminds me of Inspector Clueseau's sidekick, Kato, appearing out of fridges and from behind doors! Have all the insults you want -you need some arguments other than we are all ruined and I am to blame! What would Doug's world look like? EasyJet bankrupt so you could say you told us so? A year of strikes? Andy Harrison resigning along with the whole AMB? Presumably he would be replaced by Rupert the Bear or someone similar who just loves pilots and wants to give them loads of dosh. Tell me your plan - not what you would not do, but what you would actually do if it was all down to you. At the risk of repeating myself, I back BALPA 100% and if a strike comes I will be there long before you. Nonetheless, a strike is not an end in itself but a mechanism for achieving the company's ear. We seem to have that so what now Maestro?

[Speevy]

you worry about your 'facts' and I will worry about mine.

Ok then.

NSF, you are indeed disappointing me on this one..

Do some research and you will see that the italian contract is not as great as you think compared to the rest of the market.

There a queue to come down to Italy?

In my opinion:

1)a lot of guys are fed up with UK.

2)a lot of guys do the mistake to use the current exchange rate, I must agree with Elephant in the Castle, our expenses remained the same during the last two years.

NSF the day you want to be constructive about it and discuss it with me, PM or email me (I am quite sure you know who I am anyway or ask WWW) and I will send you all the datas I have collected about Italy and the local marke.

In the mean time..

Good luck

Speevy

[Orange Peel]

NSF, I've enjoyed reading your posts over the last few years, always an interesting point of view and without fail a complete 180 degree swing in your view towards the end!

I find it interesting that you are quick to jump in on the Aer Lingus/Astreus thread about blatant union busting tactics with cheap labour yet you propose the same thing for our German colleagues, bizarre!? Are there two Norman Stanley Fletchers?!

My take on it is that the German colleagues need pay based on local competitors with a slant on our other euro contracts. From BALPA I understand the company has completely ignored the benchmarking data and is not interested in our other euro contracts.

It matters not what the pound/euro does. If we worked for an Ethiopian airline but based in the UK would you accept a contract based on Ethiopian rates of pay? I don't think so. Why do you think that our German colleagues should accept a contract based on UK pay when the exchange rate is at an all time low. They earn euros and they spend euros, exchange rates matter little to them. They need a salary in line with other local competitors and easyjet's euro contracts.

Based on the current easyjet offer if the euro weakened back to it's historical average of 1.5 to the £ using your logic would it not then be reasonable for the company to turn to the UK workforce and then say you are too expensive compared to your German colleagues you must all take a paycut?

I find your position bizarre. Discuss.