Easy worse than Ryanair
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Easy worse than Ryanair
Reading many of the forums on here I see lots of mention of terms and conditions and diminishing standards. However as an orange airline announces profits for the year I find it hard to believe the current flexi crew terms and conditions have failed to be mentioned in particular in comparison to the FR Brookfield contracts. As a soon to be retired Captain in another airline I was shocked to have chatted to a Flexi Crew FO to find out about the terms and conditions they are working to. I wonder how or why anybody would wish to join this industry and fear surely with airlines behaving this way only standards can drop. I can’t imagine any other industry requiring trained professionals able to treat them like this.
Although I believe all of the information to be correct and a have a very reliable source, I am more than open to be corrected on any of the points.
As I understand it, the FOs spent the summer working on a cadet training contracts taking home an allowance of £1000 a month in order to pay off the TR. Which seemed fair enough and competitive under the old scheme where the pilots who made the grade were then taken on full contracts. However the FOs are now only being offered flexi crew contracts. Being offered either a few days a month or months of no work with the potential of further at short notice.
While working, they are currently paid a daily rate, however are not entitled to any leave, work on a random roster, are not entitled to any sick pay, are not entitled to staff travel, pay for their own uniforms and have absolutely no job security, with contracts only being very short and for few days a month. Many of the FOs also seem to have had base changes at very short notice and seem to live in constant fear of being up rooted again at short notice. I also understand that next summer it is proposed the flexi crew pilots work on a 5-2-5-3 roster already rejected by BALPA for EZ pilots however being fatigue studied for the Flexi Crew pilots.
I understand a recent CTC update to the pilots suggested that EZY have no intentions of offering contracts anymore and are basically following the FR business plan of using contract pilots, but make the FR conditions look far more enticing. Is this not a method of employment BALPA is trying to fight in FR?
How do theses terms and conditions compare to the FR Brookfield contracts, my understanding is these CTC guys would be better off in FR?
Much of this concerns me and many of the issues were raised in the recent log article. However surely these conditions must infringe on safety with pilots turning up to work ill; due to being entitled to no sick leave and being in financial dire straits. I would also question the continuity of these pilots at such an early stage of their careers flying sporadically. The log article seemed to focus on the training organisations who surly can’t be to blame for this, but avoided focusing on the airline and management or the fact the union and fellow pilots are allowing this to happen. Think this really needs further discussion.
This all comes from an Airline claiming to be staff focused, being one of only a few to be in profit and boastings a strong BALPA membership. The day of the respected professional pilot must now be over and these contracts succeed to prove how toothless BALPA are and how useless BALPA representations would be in FR.
I wonder how the public would feel knowing how the professionals entrusted with their lives are being treated and think that maybe more publicity is required.
It would seem from my initial discussions the majority of EZY line pilots seem unaware of this, what do the EZY Captains think of having the guys in the seat next to them being treated so badly? I urge my fellow professionals to speak up and prevent terms and conditions deteriorating yet further particularly for those most vulnerable. To the FOs involved I hope that the industry picks up soon and you find an airline that appreciates you.
Although I believe all of the information to be correct and a have a very reliable source, I am more than open to be corrected on any of the points.
As I understand it, the FOs spent the summer working on a cadet training contracts taking home an allowance of £1000 a month in order to pay off the TR. Which seemed fair enough and competitive under the old scheme where the pilots who made the grade were then taken on full contracts. However the FOs are now only being offered flexi crew contracts. Being offered either a few days a month or months of no work with the potential of further at short notice.
While working, they are currently paid a daily rate, however are not entitled to any leave, work on a random roster, are not entitled to any sick pay, are not entitled to staff travel, pay for their own uniforms and have absolutely no job security, with contracts only being very short and for few days a month. Many of the FOs also seem to have had base changes at very short notice and seem to live in constant fear of being up rooted again at short notice. I also understand that next summer it is proposed the flexi crew pilots work on a 5-2-5-3 roster already rejected by BALPA for EZ pilots however being fatigue studied for the Flexi Crew pilots.
I understand a recent CTC update to the pilots suggested that EZY have no intentions of offering contracts anymore and are basically following the FR business plan of using contract pilots, but make the FR conditions look far more enticing. Is this not a method of employment BALPA is trying to fight in FR?
How do theses terms and conditions compare to the FR Brookfield contracts, my understanding is these CTC guys would be better off in FR?
Much of this concerns me and many of the issues were raised in the recent log article. However surely these conditions must infringe on safety with pilots turning up to work ill; due to being entitled to no sick leave and being in financial dire straits. I would also question the continuity of these pilots at such an early stage of their careers flying sporadically. The log article seemed to focus on the training organisations who surly can’t be to blame for this, but avoided focusing on the airline and management or the fact the union and fellow pilots are allowing this to happen. Think this really needs further discussion.
This all comes from an Airline claiming to be staff focused, being one of only a few to be in profit and boastings a strong BALPA membership. The day of the respected professional pilot must now be over and these contracts succeed to prove how toothless BALPA are and how useless BALPA representations would be in FR.
I wonder how the public would feel knowing how the professionals entrusted with their lives are being treated and think that maybe more publicity is required.
It would seem from my initial discussions the majority of EZY line pilots seem unaware of this, what do the EZY Captains think of having the guys in the seat next to them being treated so badly? I urge my fellow professionals to speak up and prevent terms and conditions deteriorating yet further particularly for those most vulnerable. To the FOs involved I hope that the industry picks up soon and you find an airline that appreciates you.
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Most pilots in the company know about this, but since they do not have en employment contract, BALPA says they can't/won't help them. You can do your own math as to whether or not they will join BALPA if they get employment in a good airline somewhere.
The current management are very envious of Pikey and do their utmost to emulate his designs. Google Roland Berger report and you will see where they're trying to take us. As for safety: That means nothing to them! They have done a cost/benefit analysis and come to the conclusion that it can be ignored a fair bit - all in the name of cost saving.
A showdown is about to happen. Either the greedy, soulless managers get fended off (not without receiving a large cash pile from the company) or the reality of an orange harp is here. Interesting times indeed.
The current management are very envious of Pikey and do their utmost to emulate his designs. Google Roland Berger report and you will see where they're trying to take us. As for safety: That means nothing to them! They have done a cost/benefit analysis and come to the conclusion that it can be ignored a fair bit - all in the name of cost saving.
A showdown is about to happen. Either the greedy, soulless managers get fended off (not without receiving a large cash pile from the company) or the reality of an orange harp is here. Interesting times indeed.
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Boecapt, I totally agree, it should be different, we shouldn't be treated this way ... but frankly I am very pessimistic as to how the situation is going to evolve, I don't see the trend reversing when things pick up. I see main airlines try and cut cost too and I fear that this is going to be the way from now on 
FSP
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No kidding this needs discussing!!! I think more and more crew are starting to wake up to what is happening. Those that realise are trying to inform those that are disengaged and sleepwalking towards bus driver T&C's. Hopefully this can be done before it's too late. Somedays it scares me that I have 30 years left in this industry.
For the majority EZY is far better than RYR (Brookfield contract) but that is changing.....unless we stop it. For new FO's however......
It can only help if BALPA members from other airlines contact BALPA about this! We need all the help we can get from BALPA HQ. What happens in EZY over the next few months will have massive ramifications for the entire industry.
For the majority EZY is far better than RYR (Brookfield contract) but that is changing.....unless we stop it. For new FO's however......
It can only help if BALPA members from other airlines contact BALPA about this! We need all the help we can get from BALPA HQ. What happens in EZY over the next few months will have massive ramifications for the entire industry.
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It's a situation that I don't think we will see changing for at least a couple of years. People are STILL signing up to the CTC scheme and seemingly queueing up for the Ryanair TR. It has been clear to see for TWO years now the fragile state of this industry but still the lemmings are coming. Put yourself in the minds of easy management for a minute - cheap, flexible pilots who will seemingly take anything thrown at them in massive supply. I'm not saying I like it, far from it, but I don't think I would be doing anything different right now if I was easy management.
There is an unstoppable Wannabe Zombie Army who are nourished (still) by the irrational bank of Mum&Dad who are in turn powered by unnatural house price inflation.
The view from my trench is that they appear limitless in number and impossible to stop. They will destroy the prize they fight for. They care not.
WWW
The view from my trench is that they appear limitless in number and impossible to stop. They will destroy the prize they fight for. They care not.
WWW
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Yup, safety is now being severely eroded in the relentless greedy hunt for profits and bonuses. These cadets won't go sick or fatigued for fear of being sidelined for any future crumbs of work that the company may throw at them. After a summer of relentless work without leave they were knackered and in Lyon were simply left for the summer with zero management oversight. great for 200 hr pilots. Now discarded, hands washed by both the company and BALPA they are all unemployed with no continuity or consolidation. Single crew ops it seems will be common during the summer months.
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Pop goes the weasel.
So what would you have them do, WWW? Lay down their career aspirations at the altar of your expectations of what junior FO T's & C's should be? Don't be absurd. Supply and demand is the unstoppable force you refer to, not the "zombie army" (how offensive, by the way!). All attempts to regulate that over the past three thousand odd years have ended in tears. You were a junior in this business once yourself, weren't you?
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I have little sympathy for those who sign up to these self funded rating jobs! It was a choice available to me, and I made the decision not to.
If you take the chequebook challenge and it doesn't pay off then you only have yourself to blame.
Pilots pay has taken a bashing and the companies will continue all the time it is an option. On the BALPA general discussion site there is a "WOULD YOU LET YOUR FAMILY FLY RYANAIR" thread. Maybe it should now read Easyjet instead. At least Ryanair keep you flying and paid with a fixed roster pattern with a good rest period.
Any Panarama producers want to highlight how companys are staffing the aircraft?
There are plenty of experienced guys to choose from but Easy and the others choose not to.
D and F
If you take the chequebook challenge and it doesn't pay off then you only have yourself to blame.
Pilots pay has taken a bashing and the companies will continue all the time it is an option. On the BALPA general discussion site there is a "WOULD YOU LET YOUR FAMILY FLY RYANAIR" thread. Maybe it should now read Easyjet instead. At least Ryanair keep you flying and paid with a fixed roster pattern with a good rest period.
Any Panarama producers want to highlight how companys are staffing the aircraft?
There are plenty of experienced guys to choose from but Easy and the others choose not to.
D and F
Would there be such a queue of wannabees willing to mortgage mum and dad's house if CTC sold it to them straight at the outset?
If the truth were known (I'd put money on these kids working for free next year to stay current), I think the flood would quite soon dry to a trickle.
If the truth were known (I'd put money on these kids working for free next year to stay current), I think the flood would quite soon dry to a trickle.
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It seems that the EU has a lot to answer for here - but not intentionally.
The free movement of workers between EU states continually fuels the fire of the airlines' demands for labour.
What would the situation have been I wonder if the major low cost carriers had depended upon a native market for pilots rather than the far more substantial European one?
The idea of Europe might be a 'level playing field' for employment, but, due to an ever wider divergence in economic expectations between workers in the Member States the playing field is becoming far from 'level' insofar as labour availability and cost is concerned to the enormous benefit of the airlines.
Whether, for many reasons, this situation is sustainable or whether it is an opportunist 'crop' which the airlines are reaping in the short-term only time will tell.
I don't know of any other industry where such an exploitation of labour is taking place and it seems to fly in the face of all the toil and tears expended over the years in obtaining rights for the workers, certainly in the UK.
I am by no means a 'Union Man' but it seems it becoming a free market without the 'controls' evident in other industries.
Maybe there is no end to it and this is the way it is going to be in the future?
It is one thing having 'flexible working' but quite another when this turns into exploitation.
With the current Jet2.com recruitment drive it seems everyone is jumping on this particular 'Bandwagon'.
KR
FOK
PS: I suppose the flip side is whether, without the EU, there would ever have been the upsurge in low-cost airlines?
The free movement of workers between EU states continually fuels the fire of the airlines' demands for labour.
What would the situation have been I wonder if the major low cost carriers had depended upon a native market for pilots rather than the far more substantial European one?
The idea of Europe might be a 'level playing field' for employment, but, due to an ever wider divergence in economic expectations between workers in the Member States the playing field is becoming far from 'level' insofar as labour availability and cost is concerned to the enormous benefit of the airlines.
Whether, for many reasons, this situation is sustainable or whether it is an opportunist 'crop' which the airlines are reaping in the short-term only time will tell.
I don't know of any other industry where such an exploitation of labour is taking place and it seems to fly in the face of all the toil and tears expended over the years in obtaining rights for the workers, certainly in the UK.
I am by no means a 'Union Man' but it seems it becoming a free market without the 'controls' evident in other industries.
Maybe there is no end to it and this is the way it is going to be in the future?
It is one thing having 'flexible working' but quite another when this turns into exploitation.
With the current Jet2.com recruitment drive it seems everyone is jumping on this particular 'Bandwagon'.
KR
FOK
PS: I suppose the flip side is whether, without the EU, there would ever have been the upsurge in low-cost airlines?
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Why are Balpa washing their hands of this? Because the flexi-crew pilots have no contract is not a reason to not pursue a resolution to this problem. The ramifications of this policy will be felt amongst all of us in the UK. Are the Easy CC/big Balpa really not doing anything about this? The last issue of The Log seemed fairly disheartening.
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Some might like to note, not only does Ryanair keep their cadets flying, while paying them a reasonable hourly rate. They are now starting to offer existing cadets the opportunity to switch onto a full contract of employment.
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So what would you have them do, WWW? Lay down their career aspirations at the altar of your expectations of what junior FO T's & C's should be? Don't be absurd. Supply and demand is the unstoppable force you refer to,
It is simply supply and demand, as has been said. Easyjet, when they started to lose pilots, worked out why and substantially changed their terms and conditions to what some described as equal to the best. That has changed back again, why? Because they can without losing staff. As soon as there is somewhere else for staff to go and the grass is greener, off they will trot. Meantime it is very frustrating, and the temptation to spend my way out of this recession is great, if it can double my salary (for the cost of 6 months pay) and save me what is almost certainly a 2 - 5 year wait (total guess!). Similarly, when I get that higher salary, I will also join you in moaning about the zombies. Moaning at a professional level is all I am good at, and all I am good for these days.
WWW I understand your emotion - you have the job you want, and see it being eroded, but it is the market causing that erosion, your zombies are merely a reflection and an instrument of that market. Moaning here won't change any of that. Mind you, it doesn't seem to stop me moaning about my own predicament.
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The very sad thing is that 6 months ago you would have had lots of easyJet pilots participating to this thread trying to demonstrate why FR and U2 are two different deals, but up until now nobody is willing to do so.
I am flying for easyJet and I used to think it was a great job but things are quickly turning ugly here..
Yep I totally agree..
Speevy
I am flying for easyJet and I used to think it was a great job but things are quickly turning ugly here..
that has changed back again, why? Because they can without losing staff. As soon as there is somewhere else for staff to go and the grass is greener, off they will trot.
Speevy
The following is an extract from a report compiled by a strategy consultant for easyJet back in 2007. A sad indication of where these kind of people are going, with no thought about any bigger picture other than next years bonus targets.
Quote:
employment cost savings
Quote:
Reducing employment costs is possible only if EZY relaxes some of the constraints imposed upon it, e.g.
– Local contracts:
- Contracting crew in lower social security cost countries
– Standardised terms and conditions for crew
- De-unionising pilots through use of contracting structures (such as RYR's Brookfield contract) to enable
differential pay scales and individually negotiated terms and conditions
• Furthermore, the current fragmented crew basing strategy imposes additional restrictions
– Forming fewer, larger crew bases may deliver savings by:
- Improving the average BH productivity of crew
- Enabling a greater quantity of training to be delivered at base
– Locating crew bases in lower labour cost locations and flying into commercial markets could deliver further
– Local contracts:
- Contracting crew in lower social security cost countries
– Standardised terms and conditions for crew
- De-unionising pilots through use of contracting structures (such as RYR's Brookfield contract) to enable
differential pay scales and individually negotiated terms and conditions
• Furthermore, the current fragmented crew basing strategy imposes additional restrictions
– Forming fewer, larger crew bases may deliver savings by:
- Improving the average BH productivity of crew
- Enabling a greater quantity of training to be delivered at base
– Locating crew bases in lower labour cost locations and flying into commercial markets could deliver further
employment cost savings
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BALPA need look at this CTC situation. The pilot community are going to be the losers in all of this, re terms and conditions. What other profession would let it self be treated like this.
Apparently BALPA can't because the FO's are technically not employed by easyjet, they are employed by CTC. And we do not have a scope clause......