RYANAIR thoughts
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Leo got the hump
you would recognise as other PILOTS have done, that my reference in the second quote of my last post and all that follows from it
Glad to read that you steer clear of the gin now so your demeanour must have some other explanation. Failure and regret? No failures round here of late other than the weather but will take myself off soon to alleviate that, NOT on RYR. Regrets?, I've had a few but too few to mention.
I will have to take your word on third rate methods of attack as you seem to have greater knowledge in that area, I prefer first rate methods like truth and responding to the points actually raised in debate.
I will try to do something about the aroma but find that the scent of success is hard to lose. I will bid you farewell before you toddle off to the oasis for a good spit.
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Thank you all
I expected some rabid views to emerge and sure enough they are here but also had a pleasant surprise.
Bongle, what more could I expect of you looking through your past postings, you react to the idea of BALPA like a rabid dog does to water, I will answer the question "what's it got to do with you?" at the end of this post.
UK Viking, I note that you were still 2 years into training at end of June so I hardly think qualifies you as expert in anything, especially industrial relations and recognition of unions, you may drive a big pointy thing worth many beer tokens but it does not make you the font of all knowledge. That is an attitude known as arrogance. At the end of the day you are an employee, albeit trainee, and RYR is a hard headed business that views you as a commodity to be used and possibly mistreated according to their business needs. You are expendible if need be and any tears will be either your own or crocodile ones. We have PROPER unions in order to combat or ameliorate this. Hence my stance despite my reservations about BALPA.
Now, what's it got to do with me? see my previous posts. I get a PM from some bozo seeming to ask how to fight pre-emptive recognition of another union when BALPA have made a case for recognition and, on looking at previous posts, he turns out to be from the opposite camp. I do not react well to attempts to con me.
Imagine my surprise when I get a PM from another RYR pilot tonight, a guy who had previously sent me a castigating PM over posting night_fr8's PM, saying he had over reacted and was with me on this. He gives permission to post but I wont as he is a BRK guy but realises he should get behind his RYR colleagues.
I do note in all that posted to flame me on this a certain lack of intelectual rigour in argument, vitriol does not quite work on the net.
Bongle, what more could I expect of you looking through your past postings, you react to the idea of BALPA like a rabid dog does to water, I will answer the question "what's it got to do with you?" at the end of this post.
UK Viking, I note that you were still 2 years into training at end of June so I hardly think qualifies you as expert in anything, especially industrial relations and recognition of unions, you may drive a big pointy thing worth many beer tokens but it does not make you the font of all knowledge. That is an attitude known as arrogance. At the end of the day you are an employee, albeit trainee, and RYR is a hard headed business that views you as a commodity to be used and possibly mistreated according to their business needs. You are expendible if need be and any tears will be either your own or crocodile ones. We have PROPER unions in order to combat or ameliorate this. Hence my stance despite my reservations about BALPA.
Now, what's it got to do with me? see my previous posts. I get a PM from some bozo seeming to ask how to fight pre-emptive recognition of another union when BALPA have made a case for recognition and, on looking at previous posts, he turns out to be from the opposite camp. I do not react well to attempts to con me.
Imagine my surprise when I get a PM from another RYR pilot tonight, a guy who had previously sent me a castigating PM over posting night_fr8's PM, saying he had over reacted and was with me on this. He gives permission to post but I wont as he is a BRK guy but realises he should get behind his RYR colleagues.
I do note in all that posted to flame me on this a certain lack of intelectual rigour in argument, vitriol does not quite work on the net.
Leo:I think you meant to say in your last sentence with ref to gin 'It reeks of failure and regret' instead of I....!
b/rgds
b/rgds
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al 446
Now you are calling Night_Fr8 a bozo !!!
As a shop steward do you think the sun shines out of your fundamental orifice.
I agree that you should give Night_Fr8 a PUBLIC apology on this site and the sooner the better.
We do NOT want idiots like you defaming colleagues who were simply asking for advice.
The airline in question has been trying for BALPA recognition for over a year, and the company without consultation recognised the IPF and announced it to the crews on Friday.
Your lack of research and failure to obtain accurate information is typical of your level of unionism (I suppose your told by your wife to vote labour)
Kindly leave this site to the aviation professionals for which it was intended.
I understand that an approach has been made to the moderator concerning your response to Night_Fr8. And I would support you exclusion from this site.
I am not anti union but do not believe in BALPA's sole right to represent the pilots in this industry.
Now you are calling Night_Fr8 a bozo !!!
As a shop steward do you think the sun shines out of your fundamental orifice.
I agree that you should give Night_Fr8 a PUBLIC apology on this site and the sooner the better.
We do NOT want idiots like you defaming colleagues who were simply asking for advice.
The airline in question has been trying for BALPA recognition for over a year, and the company without consultation recognised the IPF and announced it to the crews on Friday.
Your lack of research and failure to obtain accurate information is typical of your level of unionism (I suppose your told by your wife to vote labour)
Kindly leave this site to the aviation professionals for which it was intended.
I understand that an approach has been made to the moderator concerning your response to Night_Fr8. And I would support you exclusion from this site.
I am not anti union but do not believe in BALPA's sole right to represent the pilots in this industry.
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Day Dreamer
All dictionary definitions of bozo I have read say stupid or foolish person. I received an unsolicited PM from someone who appeared to be purporting to be from the BALPA side of the argument asking for advice of an apparently pro BALPA nature. When I checked his previous posts he turned out to be of the opposite stripe. It is a stupid or foolish person who does not think I will do this.
My position as a steward is irrelevant, both to here and in everyday life, I have stated who I am to avoid any confusion in discussions on here, I have never made any claims of superiority, nor would I, in any area of knowledge especially legal, which is ultimately the area this thread is about.
In terms of research, if you look back you will find it was I who posted link to Thompson's guide to the law regarding TU recognition which destroyed alot of myths various posters were trying to weave. Would that count as research and obtaining accurate information? Where I have been less than rigorous in pursuing that research I have apologised and explained myself.
You are being somewhat presumptious about the voting pattern of my wife and I, union members come from many different political stripes. As I remember it, Norman Tebbit was chairman of BALPA prior to standing for parliament, no socialist he. Besides, who said anything about my wife in the context of this present dispute. She didn't receive the PM and has had nothing to do with this. If we are talking apology then I think you are the one who should be issuing one for that crass comment.
As you seem to have been reading my post history or have a good memory could you please indicate where I have posted stating support for any political party. I have assiduously tried to avoid it.
I join you in that I do not believe in BALPA's sole right to represent the pilots in your industry.Nor do I think that a company in which BALPA has acheived 70% membership and followed the letter of the law undermine the spirit of that law by recognising a minority union without consultation and subvert that legal process that, paradoxically, was put in place to provide protection against this kind of industrial bullying. It is up to BALPA to challenge the legallity of this move.
The mods must make whatever decision they will, I consider that I acted honestly and transparently in response to a, to my mind, dishonest and disguised request. If the mods look at my incoming PMs they will see from the latest of 03/08/09 22.26 is in support of me and only thinks I jumped the gun in calling night_fr8 management. What I actually meant was RYR management as that tactic is not unknown on this site. For that I do apologise but think my suspicion was justified in the circumstances.
Yor point about aviation professionals is noted but I have covered this several times. I have also advocated that you RYR pilots should ask the mods for a private forum however I think in this case ie employment law a narrowing of the pool of knowledge would not be in your best interests unless you wish to dress opinion as fact and spread disinformation, both of which I have seen in this thread. In the context of this thread would you also exclude Flying Lawyer who, as far as I am aware, holds only a PPL?
My position as a steward is irrelevant, both to here and in everyday life, I have stated who I am to avoid any confusion in discussions on here, I have never made any claims of superiority, nor would I, in any area of knowledge especially legal, which is ultimately the area this thread is about.
In terms of research, if you look back you will find it was I who posted link to Thompson's guide to the law regarding TU recognition which destroyed alot of myths various posters were trying to weave. Would that count as research and obtaining accurate information? Where I have been less than rigorous in pursuing that research I have apologised and explained myself.
You are being somewhat presumptious about the voting pattern of my wife and I, union members come from many different political stripes. As I remember it, Norman Tebbit was chairman of BALPA prior to standing for parliament, no socialist he. Besides, who said anything about my wife in the context of this present dispute. She didn't receive the PM and has had nothing to do with this. If we are talking apology then I think you are the one who should be issuing one for that crass comment.
As you seem to have been reading my post history or have a good memory could you please indicate where I have posted stating support for any political party. I have assiduously tried to avoid it.
I join you in that I do not believe in BALPA's sole right to represent the pilots in your industry.Nor do I think that a company in which BALPA has acheived 70% membership and followed the letter of the law undermine the spirit of that law by recognising a minority union without consultation and subvert that legal process that, paradoxically, was put in place to provide protection against this kind of industrial bullying. It is up to BALPA to challenge the legallity of this move.
The mods must make whatever decision they will, I consider that I acted honestly and transparently in response to a, to my mind, dishonest and disguised request. If the mods look at my incoming PMs they will see from the latest of 03/08/09 22.26 is in support of me and only thinks I jumped the gun in calling night_fr8 management. What I actually meant was RYR management as that tactic is not unknown on this site. For that I do apologise but think my suspicion was justified in the circumstances.
Yor point about aviation professionals is noted but I have covered this several times. I have also advocated that you RYR pilots should ask the mods for a private forum however I think in this case ie employment law a narrowing of the pool of knowledge would not be in your best interests unless you wish to dress opinion as fact and spread disinformation, both of which I have seen in this thread. In the context of this thread would you also exclude Flying Lawyer who, as far as I am aware, holds only a PPL?
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What I actually meant was RYR management as that tactic is not unknown on this site.
Or are you simply offering the benefit of your not inconsiderable opinions again?
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TRSS
Sorry, what I should have written was "What I actually meant was RYR management or their stooges"
As I remember you posted that you had management approval to campaign against BALPA in work time. Does the cap fit well?
Apologies for any misunderstanding.
I was heartened and surprised to receive an email today from another PPruner who has asked for anonimity, which I will respect, parts of which I would post, being careful to avoid inclusion of identification but alas, cut n paste does not allow easy formatting in this forum. I will paraphrase and, if mods wish me to justify myself I will forward the email. He writes first to apologise for not posting on the forum but feels, due to past actions that he is a marked man within RYR as he has the cojones to stand up to bullying management. He joins me in a belief in honesty and fairness and a thorough dislike of bullies. Something his management view as anathema. He also asks that I am sparing in quoting from him as he sees himself as easily identifiable so I will. The spirit of the rest of the email is in support of my putting forward views that are "ones that I would be happy to read anytime"
So in my considered view, or opinion if you like, a PM a day from the RYR pilot community in support may indicate that the anti BALPA camp has got its calculations wrong. Rather than try to frighten people into keeping their head down and closing your ears to argument maybe actually addressing the issues would be an idea. But bullies dont do that, do they?
As I remember you posted that you had management approval to campaign against BALPA in work time. Does the cap fit well?
Apologies for any misunderstanding.
I was heartened and surprised to receive an email today from another PPruner who has asked for anonimity, which I will respect, parts of which I would post, being careful to avoid inclusion of identification but alas, cut n paste does not allow easy formatting in this forum. I will paraphrase and, if mods wish me to justify myself I will forward the email. He writes first to apologise for not posting on the forum but feels, due to past actions that he is a marked man within RYR as he has the cojones to stand up to bullying management. He joins me in a belief in honesty and fairness and a thorough dislike of bullies. Something his management view as anathema. He also asks that I am sparing in quoting from him as he sees himself as easily identifiable so I will. The spirit of the rest of the email is in support of my putting forward views that are "ones that I would be happy to read anytime"
So in my considered view, or opinion if you like, a PM a day from the RYR pilot community in support may indicate that the anti BALPA camp has got its calculations wrong. Rather than try to frighten people into keeping their head down and closing your ears to argument maybe actually addressing the issues would be an idea. But bullies dont do that, do they?
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al 446
I see you have not given an apology to Night_Fr8., which he so rightly deserves.
Also you say that you are receiving PM's from RYR pilots, why are you not posting them as they have given permission.
Probably you wife has not given you hers to go out and spread your Unionist CR...
Mind you that is what I expect from a lowly ERK, hiding behind his unionist beliefs.
I see you have not given an apology to Night_Fr8., which he so rightly deserves.
Also you say that you are receiving PM's from RYR pilots, why are you not posting them as they have given permission.
Probably you wife has not given you hers to go out and spread your Unionist CR...
Mind you that is what I expect from a lowly ERK, hiding behind his unionist beliefs.
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Day_Dreamer
I see you have not given an apology to Night_Fr8., which he so rightly deserves.
I was heartened and surprised to receive an email today from another PPruner who has asked for anonimity, which I will respect
The rest of your post seems to be more of the vaccuous drivel I have become used to.
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As I remember you posted that you had management approval to campaign against BALPA in work time.
Why not take the advice of the others and toddle off.
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al 446
In case you are too Thick to understand ALL PM's are to be considered Confidential unless otherwise indicated.
Put 2 + 2 together and this time make 4.
I know who Night_Fr8 is and he is just another Captain working for that company, trying to make sense of the situation, asking for advice from a trade unionist who might have had the answer.
That apology is now the right thing to do, be a Man and admit you were wrong, this may restore some of your credability on this site.
Enough on this topic as its taking the track away from the RYR Thoughts.
Should any others of you out there support an apology for Night_Fr8 flood al446 PM's with your message until he capitulates
In case you are too Thick to understand ALL PM's are to be considered Confidential unless otherwise indicated.
Put 2 + 2 together and this time make 4.
I know who Night_Fr8 is and he is just another Captain working for that company, trying to make sense of the situation, asking for advice from a trade unionist who might have had the answer.
That apology is now the right thing to do, be a Man and admit you were wrong, this may restore some of your credability on this site.
Enough on this topic as its taking the track away from the RYR Thoughts.
Should any others of you out there support an apology for Night_Fr8 flood al446 PM's with your message until he capitulates
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shady
from 8th July (post 326 I think)
Day Dreamer
Make up your mind for gawdsake, leave it alone or have a go, which is it? Final sentence seems to be standard bully tactic "Besiege the unbeliever"
Anything I have written I have always considered may be published or be up for scrutiny. If anyone has made a misjudgement it appears to be the original sender.
But just to stop you fretting, I had the good sense to clear my " activities" with the management first, just to make certain that it wouldn't be stepping on toes, breaking any rules or cause any problems for them, or my colleagues.
So the double standard is simply the process of asking permission first and accepting the response!
So the double standard is simply the process of asking permission first and accepting the response!
Enough on this topic as its taking the track away from the RYR Thoughts.
Should any others of you out there support an apology for Night_Fr8 flood al446 PM's with your message until he capitulates
Should any others of you out there support an apology for Night_Fr8 flood al446 PM's with your message until he capitulates
Anything I have written I have always considered may be published or be up for scrutiny. If anyone has made a misjudgement it appears to be the original sender.
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al 446
Typical response and sidestep from a trade unionist !!!
Will not admit that he is wrong even when given proof that his interpretation of the facts is in error.
It appears that reason and understanding is not in your repetoire.
As for the last line of my post, many pilots will understand that this type of action will show you the error of your ways.
Typical response and sidestep from a trade unionist !!!
Will not admit that he is wrong even when given proof that his interpretation of the facts is in error.
It appears that reason and understanding is not in your repetoire.
As for the last line of my post, many pilots will understand that this type of action will show you the error of your ways.
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Simple Shady - look back through the thread and your post was made in the context of colleagues being sick and tired, not to mention distracted, of your diatribes on the FD of an anti BALPA type. It was in the context of a captain being dismissed for pro union activities. Not slipped in, simply observation. And certainly NOT invention - you posted it.
Day Dreamer - I have no idea what a typical response of a trade unionist is, depends on the argument I suppose, but generally I would have thought it is to look at the facts of the matter and, so far, you have put forward no 'proof', only opinion -yours. That I choose not to accept it is a matter for you, I wont lose sleep over it.
As for the last line of your post, are you saying many pilots employ the kind of bullying tactic you advocate? We should be told.
Day Dreamer - I have no idea what a typical response of a trade unionist is, depends on the argument I suppose, but generally I would have thought it is to look at the facts of the matter and, so far, you have put forward no 'proof', only opinion -yours. That I choose not to accept it is a matter for you, I wont lose sleep over it.
As for the last line of your post, are you saying many pilots employ the kind of bullying tactic you advocate? We should be told.
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al446, the union stooge....you just don't get it do you.
You make things up: you don't know what happened / happens on any flightdeck, let alone mine: you can't grasp the simple truth that your biased and fabricated comments aren't welcome here.
Take your interest in aviation and join the spotters or stick to your flight sim and leave the real metal to the likes of Day dreamer and Night Fr8 who know what they are talking about.
You make things up: you don't know what happened / happens on any flightdeck, let alone mine: you can't grasp the simple truth that your biased and fabricated comments aren't welcome here.
Take your interest in aviation and join the spotters or stick to your flight sim and leave the real metal to the likes of Day dreamer and Night Fr8 who know what they are talking about.
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quote from The Real Slim Shady
So Slim, are you suggesting that this thread should just be for pilots only ?
Take your interest in aviation and join the spotters or stick to your flight sim and leave the real metal to the likes of Day dreamer and Night Fr8 who know what they are talking about.
