With experience, is Ryanair really that bad?

[RED WINGS]

Reluctant, my comment was aimed at your earlier comment that you would fly a light airplane for fun (fair play im with you there), but choose not to log the hours if it conflicted with your work/duty hours! Doesnt matter what ICAO state you work under you are legally required to record ALL flights in you log book!

As for the comment to justify my comment on CRM see above them and us though various departments along with the well known oleary management stlye! I remember with ammusement the great "blow job" interview in I think Germany.

I hope what you say is true about pressures with tech log issues, I really do!

[Paracab]

I'm glad to see you got over your little 'wobble' Mr Reluctant, you obviously no longer 'hate the job'. Or was it just a wind up?

[Reluctant737]

Paracab,

Thanks for the enquiry - well yes, ironically (considering current times), things are much better these days.

I never did hate the job - now I realise my earlier qualms were entirely circumstancial.

Funny how chicks mess with your mind - I think they're a species best steered clear of! And no, there was no implication in that statement!

Ad

[david.craig]

I have to be honest, the sustainability [with the right base] is appealing.
It is all very well and understandable to point out differences, more specifically where Ryanair fail. However, a very stable roster and money that allows for a very comfortable existence alongside a steady home life.......


Still, the training regime is shocking

[Paracab]

Fair enough old chap - just thought for a moment that rather a lot of JBers had been taken for a bit of ride. Then you mentioned chicks and it all became clear (never forget that they are all generally lunatics, wired up different from us lot )

Enjoy it all you lucky bugga

[miss marple]

Reluctant737

I can only talk from a female's point of view, but it's not a wonder you can't keep a girlfriend when you want to spend your time off doing what you do for a living.

Perhaps you should consider getting a life and leaving planes alone during your time off.

I wouldn't be impressed by a guy who wants to endulge himself in what he does for a living in his time off, what would you think of an accountant wanting to go to maths seminars over the weekend?

Flying is a job, but dont let it take over/run your life!

Good luck in the future with us girls, yeah right!

mm.x

[RobStob]

Flying is hardly 'just a job'. Fair enough that a standard '9-5' job in the office should be forgotten about on time off, but pilots fly aircraft because they love it and it is their life; it's difficult to switch off to something you love and have such an intrinsic passion for.

[nick14]

MM,

My good lady understands my passion for the industry and also appreciates the difference between flying for work, and taking my sisters boyfriend up for a cruise at the weekends.

Its not as if we are having an affair, I know she loves to do things in her own time and im not going to stop her.

Its all about understanding.

Anyway, back to the thread....

Nick

[south coast]

I am afraid I have to disagree with the last two postings. I agree I feel very lucky to do a job that I actually chose to do, as opposed to most people who somehow find themselves in a job, but it is still just a job.

I believe there are two kinds of people in this discussion:

Those who live to fly and those who fly to live.

I am the latter and therefore am happy to have nothing to do with planes in my off time.

Unfortunately, it can be the case that certain peple who fall into the first category come across as shallow and with no interests outside of flying and that can become boring.

Each to their own though...

[fade to grey]

Nice one south coast,
I think most people see a gradual transition from 'live to fly' to 'fly to live' as they grow up and get families etc.
As for ryanair this debate will never be finished....

[zerotohero]

South Coast

my god what a load of bull!

theres no way anyone got into flying because its a decent job, you have to like flying or theres no way you would make it through all the training, how you can say people who enjoy flying on there days off are dull is beyond me, sounds more like you live a very sad life yourself and cant see the fun side of anything anymore

flying a 737 is a fun challenging job and has great rewards (coming down all the time though!) but it in my eyes are far more fun than the equivelent job of maybe a doctor dare I say? but its still there to bring in the money and pay the bills.

as for flying on days off in light aircraft, whats more fun to someone into aircraft than taking up a C172 with a couple of friends on a sunny day and flying down to the north of france for a bit of lunch and sightseeing then a trip back at lower levels than FL380 been able to look at the scenery and do turns of more than 30deg if you feel like it and maybe the odd touch and go in different configs to demonstrate to your non flying buddys a bit of what its like in your working world,,,,,,,, i feel sorry for you if all flying is to you a way to pay the bills,,, your missing out on something fantastic that many of us still appreciate.

[Reluctant737]

Reluctant737

I can only talk from a female's point of view, but it's not a wonder you can't keep a girlfriend when you want to spend your time off doing what you do for a living.

Perhaps you should consider getting a life and leaving planes alone during your time off.

I wouldn't be impressed by a guy who wants to endulge himself in what he does for a living in his time off, what would you think of an accountant wanting to go to maths seminars over the weekend?

Flying is a job, but dont let it take over/run your life!

Good luck in the future with us girls, yeah right!

Heh, see what I mean...

I have a lot to offer the right person, but then again I've only seen girls involved with aviation... bit of an airhead I am!

zerotohero - I'm 100% with you on that one buddy, it doesn't get much better than lunch and walk along the sea front in L2K or Jersey! And flying can take you to so many romantic locations. One day, perhaps I'll meet somebody who appreciates what I love, and of course it's that mutual understanding that makes the sound foundations of a relationship.

Belive me MM, I've shared many happy times with people, but more often than not it was work that took us apart, not what I do on the side (rock climbing, ice skating, skiing/snowboarding, paragliding, taking my friends/family out to cool places.... and dare I say it... flying....)

And plus, I'm 20 years old - I'm not going to change for somebody else, life is there to enjoy, not to mess around worrying about relationships with other people who will probably fade away with time anyway. I've developed the art of self protection, and I feel fortunate to have experienced at my age what some may not know until their 40s, or indeed never...

Hey ho, it's all a learning experience

[Chippybus]

I must be odd I was never interested in flying and got into aviation for the craic! Its much better than my last job and never boring! I love flying its such a challenge and buzz. 99% of the people I work with are great and made some real good mates. Best decision I ever made. I had some money 25 years ago and didn't know what to invest in........so I invested in a known commodity MYSELF!

[FLYINGPAUL]

Info for new cadets

Could any of you kind gentleman help? I recently pass my interview with Ryanair and will start my TR this summer. Please could any of you help with the following?

1) With the news of the new pay deals, has this changed things with the brookfield rates of pay?
2) Once you are brookfield will you ever get a contract, is there anything you can do to influence this?
3) I think they base you anywhere they want but ask you for any preferences. Are there any places you will stand a better chnace to get for the Summer/Autumn. This way you ahve a little more say than being based anywhere if you request paces which clearly have no positions?
4) Finally anyone know which bases will see most expansion, outisde UK?


Paul

Thanks

[BelArgUSA]

As it was and as it is

Hola Reluctant737 -
xxx
In a sense, I recognize you as I was at your age, or about the same. Add about half of a century of years, and aviation, and I might be today, what you will be in 2050. For that I wish you the best. However 1960 was notably different then that today is.
xxx
The only thing you do not know is what is it to be, say, a "50 years old pilot" flying his career, for which the main reason is making a living. You do not have that experience, and you are (lack of life and career experience) unable to compare.
xxx
1960 was different. Many kids of my age, dreamed of being pilot. I would say, 99.9% wanted to be fighter pilots, Mach 2, 60,000 ft, F-104 Starfighter. Being a transport (= airline or military) pilot ... how horrible..! Flying a stupid Convair CV-440, a cargo DC-3, a C-119 or a Pembroke, what a disgrace. So I took the military pilot career as my goal. Going to the dance clubs, then to impress young ladies required a flight jacket with a F-104 squadron emblem, and a MG sports car. I was one of those. What I cannot grasp is, why today's young guys with dreams of being pilot, do not dream to be a FA-18 or Rafale "Top Gun" jockey instead of "driving a cattle car" limited to 30º bank.
xxx
But in training in USA (NATO) I had met USAF pilots (reservists) who were in real life, airline pilots, who had a paycheck with 4 digits... living in a country with palm trees and blue skies. They told me that airlines were keen on hiring jet fighter pilots, so was my first aviation education. Join airlines...
xxx
I joined the airlines for $$$ primarily. As a low life F/E 727. Then became F/O, then instructed in classroom and simulator besides line flying. Of course, I did love flying then, but the financial aspects became more relevant. From love of flying for airplanes, it changed to love of flying for money. The change occured around the time I became a captain.
xxx
No need to mention how the industry turned with the Middle East war 1973, deregulation 1979, airline bankruptcies, layoffs, unemployment, bankruptcies, and being based far away from home (half a world away). Eventually I got married, quite late in life (I was age 50 when we moved to live together). And then, airline job became just that, a job, and a paycheck. My wife was the most important thing for me. The only thing I kept on liking were the layovers, flying with a crew that were all friends, getting my wife along on trips, visit far away places with reduced fare tickets and discounts.
xxx
An aviation career goes in stages. You are as you are today, because you are some 20 of age. When you will be 40, your ideas will be completely different. I am retired now, and in view of the airline industry as it is today, never would I want to start that career today. All my mother paid, was my PPL. I would never spend $100,000 to become a 737 F/O, Do I miss flying, yes, as it was, not as it is today. Flying a 737 with FMS and auto-this and auto-that from Manchester to Amsterdam would not turn me on.
xxx
Good luck to you all with RyanAir an equivalent loco. And get out of these operations ASAP for a better life, a better paycheck, and respect of your pilot peers with legacy airlines. When I am in Europe, Paris to Brussels, I travel with the Thalys TGV city center to city center in 70 minutes, not Beauvais to Charleroi, and wasted hours to go to/from airports and being treated like cattle.
xxx

Happy contrails

[Reluctant737]

Thank you for your post BelArgUSA,

Well I can't really reply to anything specific form your post because essentially that would defeat the ideas behind what you're saying!

I'd love to have flown for the military, but unfortunately I didn't rank particularly high in the eyesight section of the genetic lottery (fortunately I came pretty damn close in every other area ).

Well I'll tell you what, from my limited experience, worries me most of all. More than this bloody recession, more than redundancies, or abused payscales, or any of that.

What worries me is the future for pilots. And I'm talking two or three generations ahead - it would be an awful shame if the great century of aviation (as it may come to be known) was only that, a century. Summer days at the airfield where prospective pilots digged deep for that first trial lesson, layovers in exotic locations for short/medium haul crew (can't really avoid it if you're long haul), and a general 'family feel' between pilots all over the world.

Yes, I really worry for that, what with the advent of the 'new age', health and safety, advancements in computers, so on so forth.

Perhaps I'd have done better back in your day buddy

Then again, I guess the grass is always greener...

[the grim repa]

what a load of absolute absolute ****!!!this should be called the reluctant737 bores you to death show!if we want to read about your life we may buy the book.maybe we can back to dicussing the future for ryanair pilots rather than little boy pastimes and teenage girl fantasies.
for those who can look beyond daily existence or even have an interest in an aviation career as opposed to living with their head in the clouds,STAY WELL CLEAR OF RYANAIR!!
maybe you should have got your eyesight tested before you signed the ryanair contract,oh thats right it changes in front of your eyes.

[leeds 65]

On another thread it apears ryanair contracters are getting pay cuts.Any word on Brookfield slashing pay rates?im sure its not far around the corner?

[Reluctant737]

Grim Repa (good handle),

I was in two minds as to whether I should actually bother replying to your post because it's utter drivel, but I'll bite -

this should be called the reluctant737 bores you to death show!

Then skip my comments, you have the ability to organise what you read do you not? Or would that be giving you too much credit?

maybe we can back to dicussing the future for ryanair pilots rather than little boy pastimes and teenage girl fantasies.

Well first of all, there's no 'we' in this whatsoever - thus far there has been no contribution to this thread from you, postive, negative or otherwise, except to insult behind your shadowy mask. Again. And regarding the latter part of your comment, I can assure you sir, I partake in hobbies outside of work which would leave you trembling like a little boy.

for those who can look beyond daily existence or even have an interest in an aviation career as opposed to living with their head in the clouds,STAY WELL CLEAR OF RYANAIR!!

Always the same story isn't it old boy? Well it all boils down to two possibilities. You are either an underskilled pilot who managed to drag their sorry ar*e through flight training via much 'yes sir'ing and 'don't worry with that, I'll wipe it for your sir'ing, coupled with a few partials and retakes who then failed to pass our very high standard selection process. Or on the other hand, you are a pilot elsewhere (real or Microsoft) who had a bad experience on one of our flights, perhaps the cabin crew didn't have time to deal with your small problem involving one stuck fly zipper, or that your water was a few degrees too warm for your delicate palette?

I'll leave the choice up to others to decide, but I don't think I'd be alone in saying you're a voice on here that is increasingly beginning to sound like a broken record.

Whatever your qualms are with Ryanair, why don't you take it up with the airline, instead of b*tching about it on an anonymous message board?

Just a thought...

[Reluctant737]

Go on then, enlighten me, what kind of person might that be?