With experience, is Ryanair really that bad?
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Reluctant 737: I no longer fly light aeroplanes due to hours limitations
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Under the IAA rules:
all types of flying counts towards your 900/yer limit.
It would be embarrasing to turn round to ops and say I cnt fly because iv burned up my 900 hours with additional light aircraft flying. A boot out the door would surely follow.
Under CAA anything under 1600kg is not counted, but as we have IAA licences its different rules.....
all types of flying counts towards your 900/yer limit.
It would be embarrasing to turn round to ops and say I cnt fly because iv burned up my 900 hours with additional light aircraft flying. A boot out the door would surely follow.
Under CAA anything under 1600kg is not counted, but as we have IAA licences its different rules.....
I think Stan Woolley just about hit the nail on the head when he made the comment that airlines are all the same.
We would all love to work for that perfect airline that doesn't exist. I personally have a wardrobe full of uniforms from airlines that went under.
I absolutely loved working for Fred Laker and thought he was a pretty good boss. What happened? Another uniform in the wardrobe!
I watched what happened to PanAm, Tigers and TWA while I was working in the States. No doubt those who got to put their uniforms in the wardrobe then, at one time thought they had arrived when they were working for those wonderful airlines (any comment BelArgUSA?)
After another uniform ended up in my wardrobe, I decided that I had to work for a predator for a change and stop worrying about staff travel and such niceties that don't really matter when it comes down to it. Luckily, this was a good change of tack and my next job lasted for 19 years until I retired.
During that time I watched the likes of SABENA and Swissair go down the toilet (whilst still going on strike for this and that).
We all know that MOL is an ars*hole and that he is not the sort of person that you would invite home to meet mummy. However, he is a pretty successful predator and has so far kept a lot of pilots in reasonably well-paid work with stable rosters. I can imagine that the Ryanair management is not too good in the "touchy-feely" and "let's be nice to each other" department but I have proved in the course of my long career that flying for nice people can be positively damaging to your health!
Would you rather work for the likes of SilverJet, Zoom or XL perhaps? I'm sure they were all great fun but great fun does not impress the bank manager (nor, for that matter, do nice "thank you letters" from the MD for a job well done).
We would all love to work for that perfect airline that doesn't exist. I personally have a wardrobe full of uniforms from airlines that went under.
I absolutely loved working for Fred Laker and thought he was a pretty good boss. What happened? Another uniform in the wardrobe!
I watched what happened to PanAm, Tigers and TWA while I was working in the States. No doubt those who got to put their uniforms in the wardrobe then, at one time thought they had arrived when they were working for those wonderful airlines (any comment BelArgUSA?)
After another uniform ended up in my wardrobe, I decided that I had to work for a predator for a change and stop worrying about staff travel and such niceties that don't really matter when it comes down to it. Luckily, this was a good change of tack and my next job lasted for 19 years until I retired.
During that time I watched the likes of SABENA and Swissair go down the toilet (whilst still going on strike for this and that).
We all know that MOL is an ars*hole and that he is not the sort of person that you would invite home to meet mummy. However, he is a pretty successful predator and has so far kept a lot of pilots in reasonably well-paid work with stable rosters. I can imagine that the Ryanair management is not too good in the "touchy-feely" and "let's be nice to each other" department but I have proved in the course of my long career that flying for nice people can be positively damaging to your health!
Would you rather work for the likes of SilverJet, Zoom or XL perhaps? I'm sure they were all great fun but great fun does not impress the bank manager (nor, for that matter, do nice "thank you letters" from the MD for a job well done).
Last edited by JW411; 9th Mar 2009 at 17:30.
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eagerbeaver
Yes I did because the alternative would be an even deeper shafting ! millions of other workers are also foregoing a pay rise this year.
I would prefer everyone to belong to BALPA and have a proper negotiation but can't see it happening soon.
Yes I did because the alternative would be an even deeper shafting ! millions of other workers are also foregoing a pay rise this year.
I would prefer everyone to belong to BALPA and have a proper negotiation but can't see it happening soon.
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As a retired pilot, many people ask me "which airline" in Europe, I recommend "any airline" but RyanAir...
If it's so GodAwful how do they manage to attract experienced pilots who should know better?
Why were pilots not flying out the door when there were loads of jobs around in the past few years?
Aerobat
Seriously mate we are wasting our time. It appears that if you defend Ryanair in any way you must be some sort of idiot/masochist/loser/............whatever.
I don't like deals being imposed either but I never get an answer from all the so called experts about where they can get a better deal, or why they are still here gobbing off year after year but don't have the balls to actually try somewhere else. Hypocrisy!
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JW411
I'm sure many will say I am lying but I have seen a nice letter from MOL to one of our pilots thanking him for flying him around on a trip.(A line FO btw, not a base Captain or such)
If I get sacked soon you know why! Can't let it be known MOL might be human!
I'm sure they were all great fun but great fun does not impress the bank manager (nor, for that matter, do nice "thank you letters" from the MD for a job well done).
If I get sacked soon you know why! Can't let it be known MOL might be human!
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Regrets I've had a few...
Mine was joining RYR (and meeting my 1st wife). Excluding crew (flight and cabin) you will generally deal with the most ruthless, obnoxious, double dealing b**stards on the planet. Your throat will be cut for tuppence, all on the caveat of costs and share options.
Filth....
Filth....
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Apparently because its better to be ill treated by 'a predator' than risk being made redundant from a job you might enjoy....
ASFKAP:
I worked for a predator for sure but I was never ever ill-treated.
I think you may have jumped to some ill-considered conclusions.
My predator was not MOL. I am now retired and never worked for Ryanair but,in this climate, I would rather work for them than stack shelves in Tescos.
I worked for a predator for sure but I was never ever ill-treated.
I think you may have jumped to some ill-considered conclusions.
My predator was not MOL. I am now retired and never worked for Ryanair but,in this climate, I would rather work for them than stack shelves in Tescos.
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This thread confirms my opinions 
It seems that if you rock the boat your sacked, wonder what the response to an "unecessary" tech log entry down route is? What concerns me is the comments of supposed ryanair pilots! Reluctant 737 comments when he has more money he would do some light aircraft flying for fun and not log it if it conflicts with duty hours! It is that regard for legal regulations, CRM and safety which is why I have never had any wish to fly ryanair even in the back!
It seems that if you rock the boat your sacked, wonder what the response to an "unecessary" tech log entry down route is? What concerns me is the comments of supposed ryanair pilots! Reluctant 737 comments when he has more money he would do some light aircraft flying for fun and not log it if it conflicts with duty hours! It is that regard for legal regulations, CRM and safety which is why I have never had any wish to fly ryanair even in the back!
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I have just sailed past the 500hr mark on the 738 with FR. It's my first commercial job and overall I am happy. I knew what I was getting myself into before I joined and to be honest there is very little that I could regard as being a complete and utter surprise to me.
I have had 3 bases (2 during line training) and my present. It's not where I want to be ultimately, however it isn't the worst as I am able to stay with relatives/friends during my 5 days on. My life would be a lot more simple if I had my base of choice however I know guys who are a lot worse off (in terms of how they have to commute to work, cost of living away from home etc). I was in line for a base transfer in February, however it never materialised (for reasons unknown to me). When you seek a reason, no one can give you one or the person you need to talk to is unavailable. Important lesson is not to let it get to you. You will see people in the base that you want who themselves do not want to be there. You will see new cadets being moved into your base of choice when you had been told a month or two earlier that the base was overcrewed and would be for the next 6 to 8 months. However these stories aren't anything new and like I say, I was aware of them before I joined.
The money is decent, however if joining as an FO be aware that as you become more expensive (see Brookfield rates of pay) you are likely to be used less. I am late twenties, married with a kid, two properties (one let out), a car, credit cards etc etc. I have, by industry standards, a small loan to repay as a result of my training. I am still managing to keep my head above the water and I am able to enjoy some of the finer things in life, however it takes careful management and planning of your finances. I would also point out that if you are based in Ireland things are becoming slightly different to how you declare your income. This applies to Brookfield guys and gals and indeed the whole concept of being 'self employed' with regards to the Revenue Commission. Ultimately you could find yourself worse off.
Flying wise, I couldn't be happier. I feel myself developing every day. The guys I fly with sitting in the left range from highly experienced skippers to recent command upgrades. I have never regarded any as being incapable or unprofessional. Enthusiasm and a willingness to learn will see you develop at a steady pace. There is a wealth of knowledge available in Ryanair - if you want to tap into it! The training is of a high standard and the SOPs are there to protect you. Career progression is also good. Within 4 or so years you could have went from cadet to FO, to SFI to Captain. LTC and TRI/TRE could soon follow. All very transferable skills gained in a relatively short time.
One thing that can get to some is a certain level of lack of respect within the organisation. You could certainly say it has been the root of all evils. Some people may entertain a certain 'them and us' attitude. Whether it be management and pilots, pilots and operations, pilots and cabin crew, pilots and engineering - the list goes on. It is obvious that there is a 'I dont give a **** about you because you dont give a **** about me' sentiment circulating. This leads to problems and ultimately when you find yourself backed into a corner, this attitude is the one which will see you shafted. I definetly agree that we need some degree of representation. I am a member of BALPA, however it's unfortunate that many of their efforts have been in vain. Ultimately I believe its because of the 'FUJIMAR' attitude in the airline - **** YOU JACK I'M ALRIGHT! This attitude however will usually come around a bite you in the ass as there will be no one there to help you when you need it most!
So there you have it. I fully believe it's down to how you approach the job. It's going to be harder for you if you are leaving behind something that bit better i.e in terms of T&Cs, ethos and values. However then again you may be willing to surrender all this for more money and a bullet proof roster. In terms of joining as a cadet, well there is an arguement to the fact that this is all you have known so therefore it's ok. Slightly 'more worldly' individuals will know that that is a different story. However there are no misconceptions. Ryanair does exactly what it says on the tin.
I have had 3 bases (2 during line training) and my present. It's not where I want to be ultimately, however it isn't the worst as I am able to stay with relatives/friends during my 5 days on. My life would be a lot more simple if I had my base of choice however I know guys who are a lot worse off (in terms of how they have to commute to work, cost of living away from home etc). I was in line for a base transfer in February, however it never materialised (for reasons unknown to me). When you seek a reason, no one can give you one or the person you need to talk to is unavailable. Important lesson is not to let it get to you. You will see people in the base that you want who themselves do not want to be there. You will see new cadets being moved into your base of choice when you had been told a month or two earlier that the base was overcrewed and would be for the next 6 to 8 months. However these stories aren't anything new and like I say, I was aware of them before I joined.
The money is decent, however if joining as an FO be aware that as you become more expensive (see Brookfield rates of pay) you are likely to be used less. I am late twenties, married with a kid, two properties (one let out), a car, credit cards etc etc. I have, by industry standards, a small loan to repay as a result of my training. I am still managing to keep my head above the water and I am able to enjoy some of the finer things in life, however it takes careful management and planning of your finances. I would also point out that if you are based in Ireland things are becoming slightly different to how you declare your income. This applies to Brookfield guys and gals and indeed the whole concept of being 'self employed' with regards to the Revenue Commission. Ultimately you could find yourself worse off.
Flying wise, I couldn't be happier. I feel myself developing every day. The guys I fly with sitting in the left range from highly experienced skippers to recent command upgrades. I have never regarded any as being incapable or unprofessional. Enthusiasm and a willingness to learn will see you develop at a steady pace. There is a wealth of knowledge available in Ryanair - if you want to tap into it! The training is of a high standard and the SOPs are there to protect you. Career progression is also good. Within 4 or so years you could have went from cadet to FO, to SFI to Captain. LTC and TRI/TRE could soon follow. All very transferable skills gained in a relatively short time.
One thing that can get to some is a certain level of lack of respect within the organisation. You could certainly say it has been the root of all evils. Some people may entertain a certain 'them and us' attitude. Whether it be management and pilots, pilots and operations, pilots and cabin crew, pilots and engineering - the list goes on. It is obvious that there is a 'I dont give a **** about you because you dont give a **** about me' sentiment circulating. This leads to problems and ultimately when you find yourself backed into a corner, this attitude is the one which will see you shafted. I definetly agree that we need some degree of representation. I am a member of BALPA, however it's unfortunate that many of their efforts have been in vain. Ultimately I believe its because of the 'FUJIMAR' attitude in the airline - **** YOU JACK I'M ALRIGHT! This attitude however will usually come around a bite you in the ass as there will be no one there to help you when you need it most!
So there you have it. I fully believe it's down to how you approach the job. It's going to be harder for you if you are leaving behind something that bit better i.e in terms of T&Cs, ethos and values. However then again you may be willing to surrender all this for more money and a bullet proof roster. In terms of joining as a cadet, well there is an arguement to the fact that this is all you have known so therefore it's ok. Slightly 'more worldly' individuals will know that that is a different story. However there are no misconceptions. Ryanair does exactly what it says on the tin.
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RED WINGS,
kindly justify your CRM or safety concerns, or. . . . with the greatest of respect,
shut up. In 6 yrs with Ryanair I can assure you that I had many inconvenient "techies " down route and was never once even under a hint of pressure to declare otherwise. Again, with the greatest of respect , you are speaking from your sphincter. (is that how we spell ass ? )
I don't think anyone disputes that our dear ol MOL could indeed be accused of being a bar steward.
When people query why one would wish to work for one I have always asked the question, "would you rather work for one, or for a company competing against one" ? QED
Callsign Kilo,
I don't ever recall reading a post that so succintly summed up life in RYR.
I think you deserve an anti-bafta award for managing to sum it up so well without any of the usual hysterics/histrionics we see here.
Thank god some people manage to maintain some sense of realism in their observations/expectations in life.
kindly justify your CRM or safety concerns, or. . . . with the greatest of respect,
shut up. In 6 yrs with Ryanair I can assure you that I had many inconvenient "techies " down route and was never once even under a hint of pressure to declare otherwise. Again, with the greatest of respect , you are speaking from your sphincter. (is that how we spell ass ? )I don't think anyone disputes that our dear ol MOL could indeed be accused of being a bar steward.
When people query why one would wish to work for one I have always asked the question, "would you rather work for one, or for a company competing against one" ? QED
Callsign Kilo,
I don't ever recall reading a post that so succintly summed up life in RYR.
I think you deserve an anti-bafta award for managing to sum it up so well without any of the usual hysterics/histrionics we see here.
Thank god some people manage to maintain some sense of realism in their observations/expectations in life.
Last edited by captplaystation; 9th Mar 2009 at 21:46.
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Aerobat
Ryanair will make 100 million euro profit and you agree to accept quite possibly the most one-sided, unreasonable ammendment to a contract that was not due for renewal for another three years.
Are you a member of Balpa? If not why not?
Why don't you believe unionisation is possible in Ryanair?
Have you visited repaweb.org? If not why not?
Are you aware of the current court case in Ireland? If not why not?
I am shocked by your complicity, what are you afraid of?
Ryanair will make 100 million euro profit and you agree to accept quite possibly the most one-sided, unreasonable ammendment to a contract that was not due for renewal for another three years.
Are you a member of Balpa? If not why not?
Why don't you believe unionisation is possible in Ryanair?
Have you visited repaweb.org? If not why not?
Are you aware of the current court case in Ireland? If not why not?
I am shocked by your complicity, what are you afraid of?
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Just to clarify, at Ryanair we are never penalised for putting anything in the tech log even if it down route, we would never be encouraged to exceed Captains discretion and we never have to explain a go around.
A lot of people on here that don't work for Ryanair spout all sorts of crap but the truth is we are trained to and expected to operate legally to a high standard - the last thing the company wants is an accident.
Our flight deck electronic monitoring has a very high capture rate which will result in tea and biscuits for non standard or hot / high approaches etc.
A lot of people on here that don't work for Ryanair spout all sorts of crap but the truth is we are trained to and expected to operate legally to a high standard - the last thing the company wants is an accident.
Our flight deck electronic monitoring has a very high capture rate which will result in tea and biscuits for non standard or hot / high approaches etc.
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Aerobat, that damn thing had me for exceeding bank angle within my first week on the line! Nothing came of it, but had a slap on the wrist...
I was still used to flying that 172 into Swansea making 'unofficial' GPS approaches to 'uncontrolled' airports! Some nifty maneuvering required sometimes!
And RED WINGS, kindly refrain from making a judgment on me until you've found out more relevant details. By that I mean, mine and my colleagues' monthly/hourly limitations are under IAA rules only. I think you'd find pilots in the UK (and indeed most corners of the Earth) flying hundreds of hours on top of their flying at work.
Is non-declaration of hours frowned upon? Yes. Is it safe? Yes, even more so. Does it happen? Yes.
And for the record, I follow SOPs biblically when I'm at work - out of work, it's up to me to determine what's safe and what's not. And I know that after a day or two off, I am very capable of taking a light aeroplane up into a sunny morning, loaded with a couple of friends to have lunch somewhere. Old Buckenham rings some loud bells when I mention food! Hmm, perhaps I'd better get that aeroplane sooner...
Ad
I was still used to flying that 172 into Swansea making 'unofficial' GPS approaches to 'uncontrolled' airports! Some nifty maneuvering required sometimes!
And RED WINGS, kindly refrain from making a judgment on me until you've found out more relevant details. By that I mean, mine and my colleagues' monthly/hourly limitations are under IAA rules only. I think you'd find pilots in the UK (and indeed most corners of the Earth) flying hundreds of hours on top of their flying at work.
Is non-declaration of hours frowned upon? Yes. Is it safe? Yes, even more so. Does it happen? Yes.
And for the record, I follow SOPs biblically when I'm at work - out of work, it's up to me to determine what's safe and what's not. And I know that after a day or two off, I am very capable of taking a light aeroplane up into a sunny morning, loaded with a couple of friends to have lunch somewhere. Old Buckenham rings some loud bells when I mention food! Hmm, perhaps I'd better get that aeroplane sooner...
Ad
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Indeed - I have a few friends who fly or are learning to fly. I used to be able to take the 'trainees' up every once in a while and let them have a fly around, pass on a few tips and whatnot! Unfortunately that's no longer taking place, but I'm sure when they qualify the tables will turn and they can take me up for a spin.....
......or two
And no doubt they'll pass on a few things to me their instructor's taught them. That's one of the great things I love about aviation, it's one veeeery big learning experience, and generally, people help each other to enhance that experience
......or two
And no doubt they'll pass on a few things to me their instructor's taught them. That's one of the great things I love about aviation, it's one veeeery big learning experience, and generally, people help each other to enhance that experience
