easyjet

[Frankly Mr Shankly]

In the context of this thread and more recent posts, I can't see anything wrong with Akrapovic's statements. The chap who advocates flying with anyone other than Easyjet, wasn't saying it due to the economics of it, or altruism to the poor other airlines, he was clearly being petulant cos Ezy haven't called him forward yet. Rattle and pram?? What kind of attitude is that?!

Yes staff travel may be pants, and I know conditions are far from perfect at Ezy at the moment. However I for one would hope to get called forward tomorrow. Having done over six years on a couple of heavy TP types, now faced with at best big personal upheaval with the current mob, or a very real chance of redundancy!

So forgive me for not agreeing with our friend Phil's point of view re: sod Easyjet, but it smacks of great immaturity and I WANT IT NOW OR ILL SCWEAM AND SCWEAM AND SCWEAM attitude. Well tough tits pal, there are some of us who would quite happily go tomorrow, and no, I'm not straight out of flight school looking for a jet or nothing else, I've done a reasonable amount of time on TP's, and now faced with an uncertain future at my airline, so if you don't want anything to do with Ezy, just tell them and leave the rest to those that do.

[ZBMAN]

Originally Posted by Frankly Mr Shankly

I've done a reasonable amount of time on TP's, and now faced with an uncertain future at my airline

Thing is, all new recruits are being recruited on temporary summer ONLY contracts, so I fear the days of eJ being a long term employer are gone never to return. Unless the expansion starts again - which I doubt.

Your future may be uncertain in your current airline, but if you are recruited by eJ, it will be certain: you'll be looking for a job this winter.

Unfortunately, and it is very sad, eJ are turning into something ugly and we (the unions) have to stop it. For the sake of you guys.

[Doug the Head]

I can't see anything wrong with Akrapovic's statements. The chap who advocates flying with anyone other than Easyjet, wasn't saying it due to the economics of it, or altruism to the poor other airlines, he was clearly being petulant cos Ezy haven't called him forward yet. Rattle and pram?? What kind of attitude is that?!

It's the same attitude like trying to take away crew meals, seasonal commands and direct entry captains. It's because of this naive display of Orange loyalty people by like Akrapovic's, that T&C's are going backwards at lightning speed. BTW, where is NSF?

[Akrapovic]

Not so fast Doug,

My point was aimed solely at Phil's comments regarding remarks he made and my shock at how someone who is in the hold pool for easyJet, can go around encouraging others to boycott easyJet flights because they aren't employing him. This guy is not an employee, yet your seem to be drifting into areas that are employee-related, which is not where I'm coming from.

I've made no remarks as to the T&C debate we (the union) and those at H89 are having at this time.

All you're seeking to do is put words in my mouth, by lobbing me in with the non-union, take whatever they throw at us minority who seek to screw things up for the rest of us, which simply is not me I'm afraid.

If you want a discussion on Terms and Conditions, I will happily continue this on the appropriate private threads. Iˇm as staunch as the next member on the issues raised (internally).

[Doug the Head]

Dude, his comments are just very typical of the 'get rich (i.e. command/jet time etc) quick' mentality that seems to have taken over this entire industry. Grab what you can and immediately retaliate if things don't go as planned.

Management plays this game very well, more bonuses for themselves yet when pilots moan about seasonal commands they retaliate by taking away crew food, so why not be consistent and 'pay them back with the same currency?' Besides, you're not exactly missing out on any frequent flier miles, as most LoCo's don't even have any frequent flier programs. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth kind of thing.

Loyalty, whether it's being naive and considering EZY as a career airline (hahahaha!) or flying EZY in your spare time, is a thing of the past and will not be rewarded by any present or future management. Just like the "can you please please please go into discretion because we have no more standbys?" will not be rewarded if you need a favour or an off day. Loyalty is for suckers, for idiots who keep on trying to bite the carrot that is being dangled in front of them.

BTW, it's funny that you happen to have mentioned McDonalds, because I also mentioned it a few months ago in another thread when I talked about the McDonaldization of aviation. Having a pilot license and working for a LoCo = having a top restaurant chef flipping burgers. Sad but true.

Regarding the 'private' forum. Well...I doubt if it's really 'private' with management being issued usernames and access, and what about the people that have left, but still have valid accounts? What world are we living in when a manager of a >150 aircraft airline spends time chatting (speading propaganda!) on a pilot's rumours and news website debating certain issues, but does not have time to expeditiously reply to personal emails or return phone calls?

The only thing 'private' about that forum is that new wannabees will not get the full picture of what EZY is really like, so in that way, the forum is playing right into the management's hands. Let the whole world know how EZY treats it's pilots, maybe then people will stop applying (or considering it a career airline) and things will improve.

[mikehammer]

Doug
I read your comments with great interest. It is true to say that Easy is not really a viable option as a 'career airline' for prospective new employees. However, working our way 'up' from turbo prop ranks, perhaps it serves a purpose, selfish though that undeniably is. If some one like me were to join, it would be to get some experience and move on. Management either cannot see that this affects their workforce, or do not care.

[Doug the Head]

Management either cannot see that this affects their workforce, or do not care.

Why should they care? Why should it be a problem for management? Basically all TRSS F/O's are 'paying for themselves.' It'll cost the company next to nothing to train them, and if after x amount of years an F/O or Captain leaves then they just call the next person in the holding pool. Needless to say that this new/replacement person will be working for an even lower salary, or will be a seasonal commander.

If you don't believe me, or want to call me "negative," then just look at the long term trend vector and some of the current issues: seasonal commands and people like Flying_Clara desperate to pay for 200 hours on type etc. The company will keep on pushing and stretching the envelop untill they get things done their way, just like the way they introduced local contracts and just like the way they started TRSS a few years ago. Now those last two (local contracts and TRSS) are more or less standard if you want to work for EZY. In a twisted way, TRSS even looks great (pay 23k for a type, 3 months probation and then a fixed contract) when compared to what has been on the table more recently: pay for your type, pay 10k for 200 hours and then f*ck off.

That's why I've been saying for a long time and that is that LoCo's are not a career airline. It's simply not a part of their business model. Why pay someone a decent salary and pension with an increasing risk of sickness as people grow older, if you can replace them with fresh (and cheaper) cannon fodder on a more flexible contract?

The future? My best guess is that (just like McPuke's) there will be more and more seasonal workers in the LoCo airline industry, giving the company even greater flexibility and an even bigger wedge to drive between pilots from different countries and bases. A small, core, workforce (with all kinds of A-scale, B-scale etc contracts) complemented by a growing number of contractors which are a combination of either beginners/turboprop drivers and more experienced (i.e. type rated) pilots returning from overseas, sick of living in the desert/China/India. Then just add a 'store manager' (base fuehrer!) to monitor the workforce (and keepin' everyone honest ) and the analogy is complete.

Oh, and please don't start now about how "flying an aircraft is so much more different and difficult than flipping burgers." Most of it is 'monkey see, monkey do', and with the advent of the MPL, anyone with a normal IQ, normal coordination skills will be able to become a pilot in the near future.

The great thing about a 737 and an A320 rating is that it's relatively easy to find work with such a rating. Yet it's also the Achilles heel, because there are (and will be!) so many rated people out there looking for work, and most of those 73's and A320's are flown by LoCo's.

[Wingswinger]

Most of it is 'monkey see, monkey do', and with the advent of the MPL, anyone with a normal IQ, normal coordination skills will be able to become a pilot in the near future.

I think you should rephrase that, Doug. People with normal IQ and normal co-ordination skills already do hold down jobs on a flight deck. Whether or not they can be accurately described as pilots as opposed to button-pushers is a matter of opinion. Some can be; some can't. We only find out when matters take a turn for the worse and they are required actually to fly the aircraft themselves and to act and think quickly.

Safety in aviation has been bought with the blood of thousands. The people who control us have never been anywhere near the coal-face and do not fully appreciate the risks they are "managing". I fear the holes in the cheese slices are beginning to line up. Ryanair sails very close to the wind. It could easily have had two hull losses in recent times; it has had the luck of the Irish. It seems that's what some of our high-priced helps want us to emulate.

[Stan Woolley]

Wingswinger

Most companies have their moments.

I don't think Ryanair have had one up to 440kts yet?

[Doug the Head]

All I meant was that it's not rocket science to fly an aircraft and airlines know this.

I fear the holes in the cheese slices are beginning to line up.

That's why you are there! To prevent it from happening, and God forbid if it does, to take the blame! (Never mind if it completely wears you out after 20-30 years flying 900 hours/year, doing 20 min turn-arounds without decent crew food. That's just a small price to pay in order to safeguard the bonuses of our corporate masters.)

Companies will have legally covered their @sses and the authorities... Well, the authorities (i.e. politicians) are untouchable and will do the same thing as now during this whole credit crisis: do some window dressing by blaming someone else (the bonus culture of greedy managers comes in very conveniently at times like these ), raise fees/taxes and promise even more rules and regulations that won't change a thing.

[kriskross]

Yes, Stan, but they did have passengers on.

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Hi Doug et al. I have been unavoidably detained elsewhere but am always up for a bit of discussion! I must disagree with your increasingly jaded perspective of things. These are not easy time for any airline right now and easyJet is no exception. Without a doubt there are some extremely unsrupulous individuals who make up our management team who would leave us in the street with nothing. Nonetheless, there is an increasingly vibrant union fighting them head on and we are making some progress. Your characterisation of the private forum is not correct - the only manager who has access is P J Smallwood and he appears as himself when he contributes (he has not done so for months to my knowledge and may have had the hard word from above to no longer participate).

I have worked at easyJet for more than 5 years now and still thoroughly enjoy my working day. The new 75/25 contract is extremely attractive and I intend to take full advantage of it in order to spend more time with Mrs Fletcher once the offspring have departed. The contract captain battle appears to have been won although it looks like temporary commands are coming in. What happens at the end of the summer season is anyone's guess as no one yet knows the take-up of the 75/25 option. As one who has worked for 2 turboprop and 3 jet airlines (plus Her Majesty before that), easyJet is the best place I have worked. There is barely an airline in the world that offers the range of destinations that Gatwick does for pilots. We fly virtually brand new aircraft and I personally love the Airbus. There are still new aircraft arriving every month and right now this is about as safe an airline to be at as any in terms of job security.

Are there problems? Absolutely! Is everything perfect? Absolutely not! Nonetheless, despite a voracious Flt Ops Director who wishes to leave us in the street with nothing, the day-to-day life of an easyJet pilot is far from bad. There are better paid airlines, but there are many worse paid. I am up for the fight with management if the need arises, but I am not up for making problems that do not yet exist. My glass is half-full and there is much work to be done. I feel very sorry for those who have not been offered jobs with us who might have previously been dead-cert candidates. The summer contracts are likely to be with us from now on, but there will still be opportunities for permanent employment once the summer/winter establishment has been sorted out. I do not pretend it is perfect but it is far from disastrous. Anyone who has been in this industry for any time knows this is a game of Musical Chairs, and the name of the game is to be on the strongest chairs when the music stops. Right now, this is still one of the best chairs to be sat on, as the music has well and truly stopped!

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Ah, Norman! Perfect syntax, glorious spelling, twisted allegiances and stunning prose. When the penny finally drops that those BLAPA fiends are no good for you, please do come and work for us at Ryanair. We've been known to take the odd ex-crab, and two of your former Orange men are now Senior TRE's at our facility at East Nowhere. They tells dreadful stories of high dudgeon in Orange Land!

Get with the program, Norman. We're looking for captains.....just not at the NRN base.

[Right Touch]

Leo me old china ,god save us all if Easy becomes such a bad place to work we would want to join your outfit , tho at the moment this would appear to be the wish of our esteemed Flt ops Director

[HundredPercentPlease]

Leo,

My how your observational standards are slipping. NSF is simply not qualified; even if chance were to land him on a snakes head, I can assure you he would grip onto the neck to save himself from that slide down to the bottom.

"I'm surviving, if it gets too bad I'll just leave". NSF would simply fail to meet this requirement. His care for others, attention to what is right and wrong, and use of the collective to ensure that the hare-brained short-term greedy little scheme to benefit a manager or two is resisted in order to preserve the long term success of the company would result in a quick rejection at the first Ryanair hurdle.

"Balpa ruins airlines". NSF, along with most lucid pilots, realise that a professional organisation is essential to prevent individual employee abuse and safety violations and when working well can help provide solutions to corporate problems that may be more effective than the ones presented by our aforementioned quick-buck managers. It appears that if you are found guilty of just considering a professional organisation at Ryanair, then you are penalised. Once again, NSF would fail to meet the required level of myopia.

There is hardly a pilot at eJ who does not carry copies of the reams of extra-curricular work done by NSF. How does this altruistic attitude fit in with the Ryanair model?

Leo, keep looking after yourself. I'm sure with your own tender care, you'll be fine. But, with respect, please can you desist from the invitations into your own egotistic little world.

[PPRuNeUser0178]

My goodness, how polite we are all becoming when it comes to slinging mud these days!

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Leo - a pleasure to hear from the man who does for pilots's rights what lockjaw does for conversation. I am nonetheless touched you would consider me as suitable for work with the blessed Michael. They say you can never say never but if you could you would! I dare to dream of a day when BALPA members are in the majority at Ryanair, and that the affront to employment practice that masquerades as 'efficiency' will be finally put to the sword. By the way, sad to see the demise of Weeze International or whatever RAF Laarbruch is called these days. Mrs Fletcher and I lived in Weeze for several years and have many happy memories of the place. I hope that common sense prevails and the blessed Michael manages to avoid the goose step out of the area completely.

HundredPercentPlease - thanks for your generous support. We at the Orange Empire are facing challenges none of us ever expected. Nonetheless, these challenges are there to be overcome. Alas, for as long as the sleeping giant of BALPA members choose to remain comotose at Ryanair, the longer the outrage of safety violations and industrial malpractice will continue. The only thing that separates easyJet from Ryanair is the presence of repsonsible union membership who represent the best interests of the pilot community. That is a thinner line of protection than many of us like to consider. I intend to do my bit to ensure that easyJet benefits all employees and not just a few.

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Norman, my dear, as usual you miss the point almost entirely. Whilst I find it a repellent curiosity that you should have pinned your colours to the mast of the BLAPA club, I don't for a moment wonder that you want it just like it was in the Officer's Mess at RAF Laarbruch and elsewhere, just like in the good old days, but life is about change and those who don't adapt, old boy, perish.

Now then. Clearly, your Mr. Harrison is testing the boundaries of your put up ability. Imagine the wickedness of nicking your paid-for tea and coffee, and delaying the god-given career paths of "senior" first officers, whatever they are. He wishes to know just how far you can be pushed without flexing those junior, unused muscles of implicit threat to strike you've decorated Orange Land with since you, rather foolishly in my view, permitted the rats of BLAPA into your Orange hen house.

The thing about unions is that they institutionalise mediocrity, and there is no greater apotheosis of mediocrity than BLAPA. Your Andy seeks to test the limits of this mediocrity so that he has boundaries within which to operate, since the BLAPA club have been forced upon him by you and those lesser mortals who look to you for guidance in such matters. Go on, Norman, you show 'em! Goad the troops into a summer of strikes, over...what was it again? Oh yes, that's right, tea and stale cheese sandwiches, and see how rapidly the SLF abandon ship to the yellow and the blue where strikes are, thanks be to God, out of the question.

It's really very funny, when you get right down to it. BLAPA are salivating at the prospect of all those extra thousand pounds a year from Ryanair pilots by offering them "dignity and respect". Last time I checked, dignity and respect came from within, the very same qualities becoming rapidly absent at Easyjet as you dance the BLAPA dance of the stale sandwich strike.

Do let me know how it turns out for you, won't you Norman?

[Binder]

Ryanair Sector Pay.

Not wishing to detract from the 'mud slinging' but could somebody clarify the Ryanair sector pay arrangements.

Is it true that it is paid from an off shore account tax free?

Is this approved by the inland revenue?

Do Ryanair/Ryanair pilots view this as a tax avoidance measure?

Just curious!

Binder

[Doug the Head]

LeoHairy@ss (a.k.a. MOL),

You could be correct and unfortunately EZY might soon be as sh!te as RyanScare regarding treatment of it's employees, so save your breath for cooling your porridge...

Tick...tock...tick...tock...