How secure is a new Ryanair Cadet's job?
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How secure is a new Ryanair Cadet's job?
I'm currently trying to decide between taking a job on a sub 10 tonne turboprop job or accepting Ryanair on the SSTR course. I have to pay for a type rating for both jobs, but Ryanair is an extra £12k risk. The money after the first six months is much more attractive at Ryanair and having a medium jet type is obviously a lot better in terms of career prospects. If I had been in this position twelve months ago I would have taken the Ryanair job without a shadow of a doubt, but with the current climate I'm trying to assess the risks and make the right decision.
In all reality how secure is a job as a new cadet at Ryanair now? Is it worth the risk? Obviously being a contractor you can be laid off at any time and I can't think of anything worse than completing line training and then being given my marching orders for just a few hundred hours on type. Is this a likely scenario in the near future, or is it worth taking the plunge safe in the knowledge that I can still look to be getting 700+ hours a year?
In all reality how secure is a job as a new cadet at Ryanair now? Is it worth the risk? Obviously being a contractor you can be laid off at any time and I can't think of anything worse than completing line training and then being given my marching orders for just a few hundred hours on type. Is this a likely scenario in the near future, or is it worth taking the plunge safe in the knowledge that I can still look to be getting 700+ hours a year?
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Is a bit hard to say one way or the other without knowing who the other opetator is. You are concerned about security at FR in the current climate so do you feel that job security is not an issue at the other airline?
FR is probably one of the more secure places to be right now, even as a contractor but would be really interested to know what your other option is.
FR is probably one of the more secure places to be right now, even as a contractor but would be really interested to know what your other option is.
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I'd do the the Ryanair SSTR. More chances of a turboprop operator going bust before ryr in my eyes. Besides we still have a lot more aircraft to be delivered, and they actually make money from cadets taking reduced salary. If anything I think I'd be made redundant before you as I'm a contractor too, but earning a full salary!
Anyways, hope that helps
Andy
Anyways, hope that helps
Andy
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Thanks chaps, you are somewhat confirming my own opinion. The turboprop operator is based in a community that relies on it, but they are increasingly under pressure from bigger regional players and lo-cos. Ryanair will ride this storm out, of that I'm sure, I'd just hate to go in and find myself sitting around without a job and bills going unpaid in 6 months time.
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Are you talking about GR? If so they are indeed coming under major pressure from BE as well as others so probably not the best place to be.
Another thing to consider is that you may well only have the funds to pay for a TR once in your career. If you do that to get into props you may find yourself needing to fork out again to make the transition to 737/319 type aircraft so from that point of view it makes sense to cut out the prop stage of the process if you can.
Another thing to consider is that you may well only have the funds to pay for a TR once in your career. If you do that to get into props you may find yourself needing to fork out again to make the transition to 737/319 type aircraft so from that point of view it makes sense to cut out the prop stage of the process if you can.
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Look at the price of oil today - $145 per barrel. Ryanair have not hedged their fuel, so at some point, if oil continues to rise, O-Leary is going to start parking more than 20 aircraft this coming winter. I don't know at what price this will be, but he is starting to look a little bit foolish already. At $180 a barrel in December?
If you don't fly in Ryanair, you don't earn much money if you are an employee. If you are a contractor and you don't fly, you don't earn any money. Trainee cadets are very cheap, but once you have done 6 months, you get expensive, and I reckon that could impact your hrs rostered.
I second the opinion that if you go from TP to Jet, unless you are joining BA, you are going to get shafted by some type-rating deal requiring cash or a loan - for example the EZY, Jet2 schemes.
If you don't fly in Ryanair, you don't earn much money if you are an employee. If you are a contractor and you don't fly, you don't earn any money. Trainee cadets are very cheap, but once you have done 6 months, you get expensive, and I reckon that could impact your hrs rostered.
I second the opinion that if you go from TP to Jet, unless you are joining BA, you are going to get shafted by some type-rating deal requiring cash or a loan - for example the EZY, Jet2 schemes.
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Just seen RYR has bought another .9% in Aer Lingus bringing them up to the maximum allowed before having to bid for the entire company.
As for the hedge on fuel, does anyone know what local deals may have already been done when RYR started operating to a particular airport or when they set up a new base ?.
RYR will still be there for several years to come.
A jet rating is better than a turboprop so go down that route if you can afford the cost, otherwise do what you can afford and stick there like glue until there is an upturn again in the market.
As for the hedge on fuel, does anyone know what local deals may have already been done when RYR started operating to a particular airport or when they set up a new base ?.
RYR will still be there for several years to come.
A jet rating is better than a turboprop so go down that route if you can afford the cost, otherwise do what you can afford and stick there like glue until there is an upturn again in the market.
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I would go for the SSTR at Ryanair.
As has been stated above, if the turboprop user lets you go then you would more than likely have to get yourself a jet TR if you needed another job in a hurry.
Loads of jet jobs out here in the sandpit regardless of the price of oil per barrel. Don't expect the price to stabilise just yet. Reserves will run low over the next few years and the locals are milking it for all it is worth now.
Can't say I blame them, however, rest assured that the rise of oil prices and the lack of any real pressure on them to reduce it, is caused by both the locals AND the oil companies/investors in Europe and the US who are making a fortune off of this.
Oil is needed - everywhere. Supply and demand. Some will ride it out and some not. The larger carriers will be able to buy more time. The Yanks will start winding down first, then expect the same in Europe.
Every dog has his day and in this case, it's your friendly neighbourhood GCC States.
Get your jet rating.
As has been stated above, if the turboprop user lets you go then you would more than likely have to get yourself a jet TR if you needed another job in a hurry.
Loads of jet jobs out here in the sandpit regardless of the price of oil per barrel. Don't expect the price to stabilise just yet. Reserves will run low over the next few years and the locals are milking it for all it is worth now.
Can't say I blame them, however, rest assured that the rise of oil prices and the lack of any real pressure on them to reduce it, is caused by both the locals AND the oil companies/investors in Europe and the US who are making a fortune off of this.
Oil is needed - everywhere. Supply and demand. Some will ride it out and some not. The larger carriers will be able to buy more time. The Yanks will start winding down first, then expect the same in Europe.
Every dog has his day and in this case, it's your friendly neighbourhood GCC States.
Get your jet rating.
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Thanks for all the advice and encouragement! I sat down with my fiance and my mother yesterday and did a huge pros and cons list for the two airlines and Ryanair came out on top in most catagories, so I think I know what I'm going to do.
Thanks once again!
Thanks once again!
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Fiance? From what I was told today, don't expect to see much of her in the first year at Ryanair. You'll be their whipping boy for that long, moving bases to where they need you from month to month.
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Would have to agree with the advice to take the job with the Ryans. If I were in your position, I would amass as much time on a popular jet type as possible in order to ensure, as much as is possible, your employability in the event of life outside Ryanair.
It's a real shame the way the industry has evolved in many respects. Time was, you did your stint on the props (few got straight to jet), worked your bond and transitioned on to jets. No payments etc, just a bond. Times change though, and I would advise anyone with access to the funds to get onto and rack up the jet hours as quickly as you can. With experience comes the increasing ability to "cherry pick" the jobs.
I would also like to offer a bit of additional advice. Try to be broadminded about a lot of the doom and gloom scenarios doing the rounds on these forums. I have been a member of pprune for years now but quite honestly, this is the first time in years I've got involved. Even when we're riding the crest of the wave, someone will always wee on the strawberries. Whilst his initial advice seems sound, the fact is that unless Farrell is a fortune teller, he will know as much about the implications of future oil prices as my neighbours cat. It's natural enough I suppose to think you're untouchable in your sandcastle but fact is, if oil does continue skyward - nobody will be untouched. These sort of proclaimations of "best job - me" are often a way of reinforcing their own decisions. Theres no perfect place to be, just try to take all the facts, steer clear of the Mystic Megs and make up your own mind.
Stay positive and focused. Put 100% in and keep your head down. I wont even try to predict the future but I will say this. "Make hay while the sun shines". Try not to be disheartened by the gloom merchants, you wouldn't even get out of bed in the morning if you took on all they said.
Take care of yourself and fly safe
Wishing you all the best.
Gashog
(see you in another four years)
It's a real shame the way the industry has evolved in many respects. Time was, you did your stint on the props (few got straight to jet), worked your bond and transitioned on to jets. No payments etc, just a bond. Times change though, and I would advise anyone with access to the funds to get onto and rack up the jet hours as quickly as you can. With experience comes the increasing ability to "cherry pick" the jobs.
I would also like to offer a bit of additional advice. Try to be broadminded about a lot of the doom and gloom scenarios doing the rounds on these forums. I have been a member of pprune for years now but quite honestly, this is the first time in years I've got involved. Even when we're riding the crest of the wave, someone will always wee on the strawberries. Whilst his initial advice seems sound, the fact is that unless Farrell is a fortune teller, he will know as much about the implications of future oil prices as my neighbours cat. It's natural enough I suppose to think you're untouchable in your sandcastle but fact is, if oil does continue skyward - nobody will be untouched. These sort of proclaimations of "best job - me" are often a way of reinforcing their own decisions. Theres no perfect place to be, just try to take all the facts, steer clear of the Mystic Megs and make up your own mind.
Stay positive and focused. Put 100% in and keep your head down. I wont even try to predict the future but I will say this. "Make hay while the sun shines". Try not to be disheartened by the gloom merchants, you wouldn't even get out of bed in the morning if you took on all they said.
Take care of yourself and fly safe
Wishing you all the best.
Gashog
(see you in another four years)
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Gashog makes an excellent statement, I have to agree with it all. I will admit, it is a shame what has happened to the airline industry. I was base checked 2weeks ago with Ryanair and my LTC/TRE was what I would have described as being a "true aviator" who worked his way through the system in the conventional sense (FI to Air Taxi Pilot, Turboprops then Jets). He had amassed several thousand hours on a variety of interesting and varied types. I was jealous of his achievements and fealt the experience that he had gathered over the years helped to mould his professionalism and ability. But now this route no longer seems to be the accepted way. I have friends, fantastic pilots and personalities, who have been FIs for several years. In a similar scenario I know individuals who have been flying TPs for the same amount of time. They both have found it extremely difficult to make it to the next step. A great shame in my opinion.
I was fortunate enough to be able to self fund the SSTR with FR. Its a tough course and you need to stay focussed and put your effort in. I got through in minimum time with first time passes and I am now line training and flying all the hours God allows me. It is a good aircraft and the LTCs a very helpful. Again, you must put everything into it and by the end of the day you are ready to collapse into a heap
However you are building jet time, which it seems everyone wants these days.
Security wise, I cannot tell you. Even with Ryanair's stability nothing is ever guaranteed. The next few years will see us all wondering what is around the corner. The doom and gloom merchants are forcasting that the end is nigh already. Dont listen to them, however try and be realistic and open minded as possible (I hope you understand what I mean here
). Goodluck, CK
I was fortunate enough to be able to self fund the SSTR with FR. Its a tough course and you need to stay focussed and put your effort in. I got through in minimum time with first time passes and I am now line training and flying all the hours God allows me. It is a good aircraft and the LTCs a very helpful. Again, you must put everything into it and by the end of the day you are ready to collapse into a heap
However you are building jet time, which it seems everyone wants these days. Security wise, I cannot tell you. Even with Ryanair's stability nothing is ever guaranteed. The next few years will see us all wondering what is around the corner. The doom and gloom merchants are forcasting that the end is nigh already. Dont listen to them, however try and be realistic and open minded as possible (I hope you understand what I mean here
). Goodluck, CK
