Cityjet Recruitment Ban
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Cityjet Recruitment Ban
HI all,
I am writing to pleed with you all as fellow professionals. I and my collegues in Paris are being bullied by management. A bunch of cabin crew have been forced to resign over this with no jobs to go to.
Cityjet management have decided not to pay the French social Tax which Easyjet and Ryanair have paid. They are deciding out of the blue tell crews that they have 9 weeks to relocate to DUB or LCY over the Xmas period. Do you think this is fair?
By doing this they say that they have no crews based in CDG or ORY. On paper only. The company have known about this for months now and have only told us last week. One of my collegues a few months (2-3) ago went to the company to get forms stamped to get a mortgage for an appartment in Paris....they didnt tell that person what was going on, now they will lose soo much money in trying to sell it again, move, find accomodation, and get set up in Dub or LCY.
The pilots will be able to commute to their base from CDG.
I am asking all crews who are looking to move to CItyjet PLEASE HAVE SOME THOUGHT FOR YOUR FUTURE COLLEGUES WHO ARE BEING WALKED ALL OVER NOW. WAIT A FEW MONTHS TO JOIN. TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS.
PEOPLES LIVES ARE IN JEOPARDY HERE.THERE ARE NOT MANY OTHER JOBS LEFT IN FRANCE.
WE DONT HAVE A UNION BECAUSE OF FEAR AND BULLY BOY TACTICS. WHEN THE UNION LOOKED TO MEET THE PILOTS, OUTSIDE THE DOOR OF THE MEETING ONE OF THE HEAD MANAGERS WAS SITTING OUTSIDE TRYING TO INTIMIDATE THEM.
THIS IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN PROTECT OUR JOBS
THANK YOU KINDLY
XXXXX
I am writing to pleed with you all as fellow professionals. I and my collegues in Paris are being bullied by management. A bunch of cabin crew have been forced to resign over this with no jobs to go to.
Cityjet management have decided not to pay the French social Tax which Easyjet and Ryanair have paid. They are deciding out of the blue tell crews that they have 9 weeks to relocate to DUB or LCY over the Xmas period. Do you think this is fair?
By doing this they say that they have no crews based in CDG or ORY. On paper only. The company have known about this for months now and have only told us last week. One of my collegues a few months (2-3) ago went to the company to get forms stamped to get a mortgage for an appartment in Paris....they didnt tell that person what was going on, now they will lose soo much money in trying to sell it again, move, find accomodation, and get set up in Dub or LCY.
The pilots will be able to commute to their base from CDG.
I am asking all crews who are looking to move to CItyjet PLEASE HAVE SOME THOUGHT FOR YOUR FUTURE COLLEGUES WHO ARE BEING WALKED ALL OVER NOW. WAIT A FEW MONTHS TO JOIN. TELL ALL YOUR FRIENDS.
PEOPLES LIVES ARE IN JEOPARDY HERE.THERE ARE NOT MANY OTHER JOBS LEFT IN FRANCE.
WE DONT HAVE A UNION BECAUSE OF FEAR AND BULLY BOY TACTICS. WHEN THE UNION LOOKED TO MEET THE PILOTS, OUTSIDE THE DOOR OF THE MEETING ONE OF THE HEAD MANAGERS WAS SITTING OUTSIDE TRYING TO INTIMIDATE THEM.
THIS IS THE ONLY WAY WE CAN PROTECT OUR JOBS
THANK YOU KINDLY
XXXXX
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With all respect my friend, all this "we don't have a union" is a red herring. What percentage of Cityjet pilots are in IALPA, BALPA or similar?
I have worked for airlines which themselves didn't recognise the union I was in then (and now)(BALPA) but it never stopped me being a member.
Tell me the %age and I'll consider you for support. Not a union member? Sorry mate, you're on your own.
(Edited to add: Just checked the IFALPA website, don't see any sign of a recruitment ban for Cityjet on there.)
I have worked for airlines which themselves didn't recognise the union I was in then (and now)(BALPA) but it never stopped me being a member.
Tell me the %age and I'll consider you for support. Not a union member? Sorry mate, you're on your own.
(Edited to add: Just checked the IFALPA website, don't see any sign of a recruitment ban for Cityjet on there.)
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Cityjet recruitment ban
Hi Guys.
I just want to clarify a few things.
I am a member of a union, so are many of the crew.The problem is that it is in france. Cityjet is an irish company who will not even talk to ialpa let alone any forign entity.
You are correct there is no ban on IFALPA but what i was posting is will you all please refrain from joining Cityjet only for a few months. We have no legal way of opposing what the management apart from lawyers (which we are doing).
This post is mainly for Cabin crew but the flight deck are also being pushed into a corner. They will have to commute to their base on their own time ans it will not be included in Duty Hours. Our workmates in Dublin are on our side and are giving us support as much as they can even though this situation wont affect them that much.
I have posted this in a few areas just for all to see. It has relavence to flight deck just as much as it does to cabin crew. The management are all ex military and i believe they all believe they can do what they want when they want. They dont care about anybody.
I am only asking as a proffessional crew member to proffessional colleuges for some help.
I appologise for some of the spelling as english is not my mother tougne.
Thank you again.
I just want to clarify a few things.
I am a member of a union, so are many of the crew.The problem is that it is in france. Cityjet is an irish company who will not even talk to ialpa let alone any forign entity.
You are correct there is no ban on IFALPA but what i was posting is will you all please refrain from joining Cityjet only for a few months. We have no legal way of opposing what the management apart from lawyers (which we are doing).
This post is mainly for Cabin crew but the flight deck are also being pushed into a corner. They will have to commute to their base on their own time ans it will not be included in Duty Hours. Our workmates in Dublin are on our side and are giving us support as much as they can even though this situation wont affect them that much.
I have posted this in a few areas just for all to see. It has relavence to flight deck just as much as it does to cabin crew. The management are all ex military and i believe they all believe they can do what they want when they want. They dont care about anybody.
I am only asking as a proffessional crew member to proffessional colleuges for some help.
I appologise for some of the spelling as english is not my mother tougne.
Thank you again.
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Guys,
This has been going on for years! Save your energy and apply to Easy or another company in France. I think that City Jet have lost a few cases in the courts in Paris with cabin crew in the regime of Jerry Springer who used to be the HR guy in City Jet and the top bully boy for management untill he got the order of the boot!
City Jet have payed out to lots of former employees before the days in court!
A leopard never changes its spots! Its a shame as the guys to work with on the line are on the whole great, its the same old 2 -ollocks at the top of the food chain that are making a fortune!
I admire you for your courage to try and do something about the situation, but save your energy, as you will be on your own!
Good luck with your challenge! have you guys talked to your Air France collegues at all? Surely they can guide you as City Jet are or where 100% owned by Air France.
This has been going on for years! Save your energy and apply to Easy or another company in France. I think that City Jet have lost a few cases in the courts in Paris with cabin crew in the regime of Jerry Springer who used to be the HR guy in City Jet and the top bully boy for management untill he got the order of the boot!
City Jet have payed out to lots of former employees before the days in court!
A leopard never changes its spots! Its a shame as the guys to work with on the line are on the whole great, its the same old 2 -ollocks at the top of the food chain that are making a fortune!
I admire you for your courage to try and do something about the situation, but save your energy, as you will be on your own!
Good luck with your challenge! have you guys talked to your Air France collegues at all? Surely they can guide you as City Jet are or where 100% owned by Air France.
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Hello again.
Pennie boy, thank you for all you comments which are extremely accurate except one....I am not n my own. This time and for the first time we have unity in Cityjet. The thing is now....we , especially the Cabin crew have absoloutely nothing to lose.....Our Jobs??? what is there to lose.The chance to do a long haul commute on your own time with a 5/2 or a 6/2 roster? Why should we bother.
Now is our time to fight. Cityjet have too much to hide and too much to lose. I am surprised that that document made it live on the net http://www.eurocockpit.com/docs/City.pdf posted by hotelmoderator above. Its clear for all to see what they are doing. Maybe some of our Air France collegues might pass this on to their unions to see what an Irish company is doing with the french revenue??
This is the last straw I have nothing to lose. I feel so much hate for our two main men above in the food chain, they will meet you in the marriott and talk to you as if everything is ok and they are best buddies with you, and then a week later stab you in the back. No matter what i end up doing, my time in cityjet has gone. I will either get targeted for standing up, and get failed in line checks, or the sim , or i will just leave if we cannot change what is happening. I cannot work anymore for such greedy, inconsiderate, and corrupt management.
For those that show support , I thank you all very much.
Ps. maybe its time to go look at the desert!!!!
..At least you can be miserable with your family by your side!!
C. XXXX
Pennie boy, thank you for all you comments which are extremely accurate except one....I am not n my own. This time and for the first time we have unity in Cityjet. The thing is now....we , especially the Cabin crew have absoloutely nothing to lose.....Our Jobs??? what is there to lose.The chance to do a long haul commute on your own time with a 5/2 or a 6/2 roster? Why should we bother.
Now is our time to fight. Cityjet have too much to hide and too much to lose. I am surprised that that document made it live on the net http://www.eurocockpit.com/docs/City.pdf posted by hotelmoderator above. Its clear for all to see what they are doing. Maybe some of our Air France collegues might pass this on to their unions to see what an Irish company is doing with the french revenue??
This is the last straw I have nothing to lose. I feel so much hate for our two main men above in the food chain, they will meet you in the marriott and talk to you as if everything is ok and they are best buddies with you, and then a week later stab you in the back. No matter what i end up doing, my time in cityjet has gone. I will either get targeted for standing up, and get failed in line checks, or the sim , or i will just leave if we cannot change what is happening. I cannot work anymore for such greedy, inconsiderate, and corrupt management.
For those that show support , I thank you all very much.
Ps. maybe its time to go look at the desert!!!!
..At least you can be miserable with your family by your side!!
C. XXXX
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Ooooohhhh memories!!!!!
Hi cityjet union.
First of all congrats for standing up and fighting. I used to work there and it seems that nothing has changed. what is worrying me now is that before the morale of the crews was quite good. You knew it was ****, but everybody got on with it. The real problem with the company is that the " two main men up high in the food chain "as you put it rely on the aerosexual training captains and wannabe training captains to lick their ass and report back about what is going on. Now it seems not just from your post, but from talking with friends, that the morale has hit rock bottom. A buddy Cpt of mine said that he had an IFS ( In Flight Supervisor) sitting in the Jump seat crying her eyes out over this situation. Its sick, giving people two weeks to decide their fate and 9 weeks to actually move....in the middle of the school year-----over christmas.
In one way its a no win situation . If the management push their weight around the crews get screwed. If the crews go after the company it could get nasty.
What happens if the French Revenue get hold of that document?
What would the fine be to the company?
How much would the french tax cost the company per year?
Can the company survive if 1) they lose all their crew ( seemingly 20-30 cabin crew resigned already) 2) they have to pay the Tax or 3) if they have to pay the tax, and get a fine for tax evasion???
Lets be honest ..thats exactly what it is.
First of all congrats for standing up and fighting. I used to work there and it seems that nothing has changed. what is worrying me now is that before the morale of the crews was quite good. You knew it was ****, but everybody got on with it. The real problem with the company is that the " two main men up high in the food chain "as you put it rely on the aerosexual training captains and wannabe training captains to lick their ass and report back about what is going on. Now it seems not just from your post, but from talking with friends, that the morale has hit rock bottom. A buddy Cpt of mine said that he had an IFS ( In Flight Supervisor) sitting in the Jump seat crying her eyes out over this situation. Its sick, giving people two weeks to decide their fate and 9 weeks to actually move....in the middle of the school year-----over christmas.
In one way its a no win situation . If the management push their weight around the crews get screwed. If the crews go after the company it could get nasty.
What happens if the French Revenue get hold of that document?
What would the fine be to the company?
How much would the french tax cost the company per year?
Can the company survive if 1) they lose all their crew ( seemingly 20-30 cabin crew resigned already) 2) they have to pay the Tax or 3) if they have to pay the tax, and get a fine for tax evasion???
Lets be honest ..thats exactly what it is.
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Ooooohhhhhh memories!!!!!
Hi all.
First of all, i just spent about 10 minutes writing a post and then it never appeared!!! does that ever happen normally??
Any wnyway, here it goes again!!
Mr. Cityjetunion.
I must applaud you and congrats for standing up against the Brown shoe
Nazi party. Lets get one thing straight. Cityjet is an airline where you lose your virginity and get your hours up, maybe get command if you last or havnt pissed off anybody along the way. Use it and move on, I did.
What is alarming is that of morale. When i was there everybody knew it was ****. But we all got on with it. we had fun and got paid. We partied on company time, went home tired. We knew we worked for assholes who would shag you with half a chance, but we got on with it.
What i am hearing now, not only from you but alse ex workmates, is that morale is rock bottom. People dont care anymore. A good buddy Cpt of mine said that he had an IFS(In Flight Supervisor) that he didnt even know crying sitting on the jumpseat last week.
I wonder what would happen if the french revenue got hold of that document. The problem with fighting in cityjet is.
If you go up against the management a few things would probably happen.
1) They get you back, and fire you or make you leave by bullying. Eg. failing you in the sim, or on line checks.
What would the Tax cost cityjet per year?
What would the reaction of the french revenue if the caught up with them for tax evasion.( thats what this is about ..isnt it??!!?)
What would the Fine be, or the fine + Tax be?
Id say the proffit share scheme would go out the window then!?
The sick thing to me is asking--no telling them ( im sure you say the doc above post) that they have 9 weeks to relocate to dub or lcy ( the commute is only for pilots and permenant cabin crew which takes approx 5 years!) and that they must make their decision in two weeks-----in the middle of the school year, and over christmas. These people are humans. I bet you that MRs.Head of Cabin Crew will be with her nice family at christmas. And you know the " Managers or so called (smiles a lot manager) " that work in CDG even though there is not a base there anymore, will all stay on french contracts.
Its easy now to say it doesnt affect me, but guys it could be you or me . I am glad that im not there anymore and im hearing it from the outside, but i feel for you all.
Best of luck in your campaign. I hope you can put a dent in the armour..it is well over due.
First of all, i just spent about 10 minutes writing a post and then it never appeared!!! does that ever happen normally??
Any wnyway, here it goes again!!
Mr. Cityjetunion.
I must applaud you and congrats for standing up against the Brown shoe
Nazi party. Lets get one thing straight. Cityjet is an airline where you lose your virginity and get your hours up, maybe get command if you last or havnt pissed off anybody along the way. Use it and move on, I did.
What is alarming is that of morale. When i was there everybody knew it was ****. But we all got on with it. we had fun and got paid. We partied on company time, went home tired. We knew we worked for assholes who would shag you with half a chance, but we got on with it.
What i am hearing now, not only from you but alse ex workmates, is that morale is rock bottom. People dont care anymore. A good buddy Cpt of mine said that he had an IFS(In Flight Supervisor) that he didnt even know crying sitting on the jumpseat last week.
I wonder what would happen if the french revenue got hold of that document. The problem with fighting in cityjet is.
If you go up against the management a few things would probably happen.
1) They get you back, and fire you or make you leave by bullying. Eg. failing you in the sim, or on line checks.
What would the Tax cost cityjet per year?
What would the reaction of the french revenue if the caught up with them for tax evasion.( thats what this is about ..isnt it??!!?)
What would the Fine be, or the fine + Tax be?
Id say the proffit share scheme would go out the window then!?
The sick thing to me is asking--no telling them ( im sure you say the doc above post) that they have 9 weeks to relocate to dub or lcy ( the commute is only for pilots and permenant cabin crew which takes approx 5 years!) and that they must make their decision in two weeks-----in the middle of the school year, and over christmas. These people are humans. I bet you that MRs.Head of Cabin Crew will be with her nice family at christmas. And you know the " Managers or so called (smiles a lot manager) " that work in CDG even though there is not a base there anymore, will all stay on french contracts.
Its easy now to say it doesnt affect me, but guys it could be you or me . I am glad that im not there anymore and im hearing it from the outside, but i feel for you all.
Best of luck in your campaign. I hope you can put a dent in the armour..it is well over due.
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Hi ACARS,
Its funny that you mention morale. Your friend is correct. The company have under estimated their employees. Theyhave been so loyale over the last few years. This place runs on fear. Every few months we get the odd emails saying " well done over the last few months but there are tough times ahead " We need you all to give an extra little over the next few months.
Now they ask too much. There is one thing worse than employees with a tough union, ---and that is employees that are so tired of lies, bull****, promices , to be let down time by time, and have absoloutly nothing to lose.
Im not sure how much support we would get from the Dub and LCY crews, but in one way i hope that the french authorities catch them and punnish them for what they would do.
To answer your questions.
I believe that the tax would cost cityjet around 9 million euro per year (becase of a large staff here)
The question about the fine?? how long is a piece of string? The french government wont like to be fooled.
They say that we can commute. My question is for how long. Do you remember the LCY base commuting policy?
Unlimited tickets?#
For how long? Then
Dear Sir/madm,
It gives me great pleasure to announce Cityjets new commuting policy. You will be allowed 2 return tickets per month.......bla.bla.bla.bla.bla.
The staff went over as a favout to the company to set up the base and then , when they got comfortable turned out the lights.
IF THEY DID IT THEN WHY NOT AGAIN !!!!
Its funny that you mention morale. Your friend is correct. The company have under estimated their employees. Theyhave been so loyale over the last few years. This place runs on fear. Every few months we get the odd emails saying " well done over the last few months but there are tough times ahead " We need you all to give an extra little over the next few months.
Now they ask too much. There is one thing worse than employees with a tough union, ---and that is employees that are so tired of lies, bull****, promices , to be let down time by time, and have absoloutly nothing to lose.
Im not sure how much support we would get from the Dub and LCY crews, but in one way i hope that the french authorities catch them and punnish them for what they would do.
To answer your questions.
I believe that the tax would cost cityjet around 9 million euro per year (becase of a large staff here)
The question about the fine?? how long is a piece of string? The french government wont like to be fooled.
They say that we can commute. My question is for how long. Do you remember the LCY base commuting policy?
Unlimited tickets?#
For how long? Then
Dear Sir/madm,
It gives me great pleasure to announce Cityjets new commuting policy. You will be allowed 2 return tickets per month.......bla.bla.bla.bla.bla.
The staff went over as a favout to the company to set up the base and then , when they got comfortable turned out the lights.
IF THEY DID IT THEN WHY NOT AGAIN !!!!
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C/union,
I would like to hope that the dub and london crews would stand behind you, but there are the usual suspects who whoul tow the company line. They are called the ass lickers. The ones who talk up the company because the think they will be liked and get the big jobs.
Maybe its time for a change of mangmt, ( and while we are on that topic maybe the chief pilot aswell, i hear he is still causing chaos!) and maybe a phone call to the french authorities would go along way.
What about the unions? have you been in contact with ialpa again? I think that now would be the time to get all people together to support the french base. Give them a call. there is no harm in trying.
Stand up and fight. If you say that you have nothing to lose then gather your troups and go. I'll prop have a beer with u in Dubai next year but you are better giving it a go!
Best of luck
I would like to hope that the dub and london crews would stand behind you, but there are the usual suspects who whoul tow the company line. They are called the ass lickers. The ones who talk up the company because the think they will be liked and get the big jobs.
Maybe its time for a change of mangmt, ( and while we are on that topic maybe the chief pilot aswell, i hear he is still causing chaos!) and maybe a phone call to the french authorities would go along way.
What about the unions? have you been in contact with ialpa again? I think that now would be the time to get all people together to support the french base. Give them a call. there is no harm in trying.
Stand up and fight. If you say that you have nothing to lose then gather your troups and go. I'll prop have a beer with u in Dubai next year but you are better giving it a go!
Best of luck
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Dear friends,
Wy do we put up with all this trouble. I have spent the half of today listening to moan and groan from pilots and cabin crew. when will we stop moaning. we did not come togther when ialpa were here.Why? afraid, what have we got to lose. I dont think they would bother with us anymore.
I just hope this message gets out to all it is ****ty jet. We are humans not robots. althoug thats what they try to bred in the air corps.
Wy do we put up with all this trouble. I have spent the half of today listening to moan and groan from pilots and cabin crew. when will we stop moaning. we did not come togther when ialpa were here.Why? afraid, what have we got to lose. I dont think they would bother with us anymore.
I just hope this message gets out to all it is ****ty jet. We are humans not robots. althoug thats what they try to bred in the air corps.
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An approach to the media in France and Ireland would seem an option : the company is trying to appear reasonable on the surface, whilst what they are attempting to do is no more reasonable than employing French citizens, living in France, with a French base to pay tax and national insurance contributions in Ireland.
It may be "legal", but is it right ?
Surely the French Authorities are going to follow this through ?
The best of luck to you all
It may be "legal", but is it right ?
Surely the French Authorities are going to follow this through ?
The best of luck to you all
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Hi Friends,
This idea of sending these documents to the pres is a goods one. Does anybody have any ideas to whom? I feel the Cabin Crew would be very interested to know?
This idea of sending these documents to the pres is a goods one. Does anybody have any ideas to whom? I feel the Cabin Crew would be very interested to know?
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media contacts
You would probably find that a telephone conversation with the Air France union representatives would give you some direction and contacts : they are likely to be very supportive.
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New developments in this story : www.eurocockpit.com
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It may have to start with you!
Seems to me a little disappointing that a non pilot member is the one trying to do some good on this front with no apparent support or recognition from staff pilots...it says alot looking in from the outside!!
No offence cityjetunion,but I seem to remember a couple of Pilots who tried their level best to get a union going but ended up banging their heads against a wall of near fear and unwillingness to get behind it(ie on behalf of the pilot body!),and I think this basing issue would not have been implemented as easy as it has been if a tougher stance was taken then.Instead,look at the situation company staff are facing now as a result...
The problem is that it doesn't really affect Dub/Lcy staff so I really don't think you can expect any level of support except some sympathetic false lip service with alot of head nodding in agreement!
Cityjetunion,maybe its time you as cabin crew members show how strong you can be as a unit,this is your job after all and you are proffesionals who need to get a message across to a very determined management!!
Well done for taking some initiative though!!
Keep up the good work.
Q
No offence cityjetunion,but I seem to remember a couple of Pilots who tried their level best to get a union going but ended up banging their heads against a wall of near fear and unwillingness to get behind it(ie on behalf of the pilot body!),and I think this basing issue would not have been implemented as easy as it has been if a tougher stance was taken then.Instead,look at the situation company staff are facing now as a result...
The problem is that it doesn't really affect Dub/Lcy staff so I really don't think you can expect any level of support except some sympathetic false lip service with alot of head nodding in agreement!
Cityjetunion,maybe its time you as cabin crew members show how strong you can be as a unit,this is your job after all and you are proffesionals who need to get a message across to a very determined management!!
Well done for taking some initiative though!!
Keep up the good work.
Q