CSA Czech Airlines...still lowballing?

[Checkster]

Just my 2 cents.

I started out with CSA back in jan 2000... After some major baboonage and licensing issues I attended my initial sim training at a great resort town in Greece for 3 weeks. The instructors back then made sure we did 1 sim session every other day to maximize baking our nuggets in the sun (we were down there at the end of june). Debriefs included drinks and a dip in the Mediterranean.... sweet. The next 3 years were a blurred rattle from the Hamilton Standards attached to those PW 124's. Obviously some pipe was layed and chicks impregnated. Needless to say the beer is awesome and Prague is a great city to be single in. I went to right seat of the Beeing in 2004 and a year later upgraded to ATR captain. That was when Hair-lip was going crazy with fleet expansion and most all of us expats got a left seat post. Thanks Tvrdik, you moron. I'm trying to paint a nice picture to you AP because I had no regrets working there and would do it again in a heart beat. I met great guys like LE, click and bratko. We went big often. I brought back a beautiful CSA stewardess and a wicked little daughter. I've since moved back to the great white north and fly to sh#t holes like Fort Mac and Grand Prairie. Greasy parts of the oil patch that you seem to know.

I guess to answer you initial questions, the schedule isn't very efficient, as for your starting position, if you're a pirate go buy yourself an A 320 rating (can you still do that click?) and the pay..... well I consider myself to be one the best payed prop pilots on the planet when I left CSA. The flak jackets on boys (don't give me those ASIA or INDIA contact jobs because I'd imagine lifestyle must blow chowder when you have a family), as for lifestyle, I had to move back, because I would have harboured the clap or one of those nasty ailments at some point.

Try it out AP, it was worth every minute.

Checkster

[FlightDetent]

Originally Posted by Airline Pirate

looks like someone in the know (hopefully...) updated the PPJN numbers:
http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/fact...j2x2r85zcav48y
Anyone care to comment on the NET figures, seems an increase from the base FO salary from 2000 Euro to 2500 EURO (net).
Also has anyone found an average for total hours for applicant they would consider once they need to start filling groundschools again? I realize there isn't much movement at this time,

PPJN says 4500 net for FO. I am year 5 (the increase is rather more pronounced in first 10), and average around 3000-3800. 2500€ for a newcomer seems a reasonable estimate. There is some movement at the time. The company has learned to accept 220 hrs guys and gals. Experience is not a problem, provided you have been trained properly. Just apply, there will be time to decide later.

FD (the un-real)

[LeadingEdge]

Checkster, you should really consider returning to the wasteland of Czechoslovakia. As I learned, the company is giving a very generous payrise of 1 percent. This and the shiny new airbuses waiting for ya should be more than convincing.

LE

[LeadingEdge]

4500 net is more like a ten year "kepten" on da 737, me thinks.

LE

[FlightDetent]

Gross figures:

Base
FO y 1 61661
FO y 5 81060
CP y 10 136629

Flt Hour
FO 614
CP 863

Sector
FO 172
CP 240

Per diems 350-550 US$/month.
Taxes starting next year approx. 35%, per diems exempted.

[Airline Pirate]

"if you're a pirate go buy yourself an A 320 rating "
I think of myself more of an overnight layover pub "pirate" than anything else....

[Bratko]

Checko or no

Well AP a tough one. I was the "OG" before I dug out about a year and half ago, and do I miss it. Hell no!!!! Sure I was a big CA/IP on the 737, and now I am in the right seat starting all over, do I have any regrets just wish it was sooner, as I was in country from '96-06. It was a great life experiment, and I got to live in a really happening city, I made some real life long buddies, click checkster, and LE, however all the "benefits" kind of leaked away when I got hitched and had a couple of kids. My life was kind of busy so many of the bad things got filtered away by going real big with the above mentioned punks, but the family life really opened my eyes to lots of the commie **** left over, and my friend there is still a ton out there. I'm sure if you PM click he can give you latest the CBA. I personally did not the way most people interacted, although I had a core group of ex pats and Czechs that are buds of life, way too much commie.... As far as the company is conconcerned I think it for the most part sucks, lots of ****y low time micro managing Captains who would have a hard time passing a F/O ride where I am, very lame non productive scheudals, that by the way are not done by seniority. Besides that now the pay is livable, and with the tax decrease it will be even better, but don't hold you breath, by the next elections things can turn around and the leftist ***** there might raise your taxes even higher than they were before. Other stuff, healthcare- free (if you belive that fat **** M Moore and his epic movie)but ****ty, corruption - very high, safety- worse than De-toilet, but the women are fine the beer is good and cheap, oh ya and retierment- ha ha, well below the poverty line. Look if you are a leftist and think the whole worlds problems are becuase of G. W. Bush, then you might of found your place in the world. Anyhow good luck with your choices, if you sign then you will owe them over 30k Euros of a F/O "type", or five years of hard time. And don't get me started on the ***** that came from TVS/ Fish.. as direct entry captians, that was THE single biggest **** up from CZALPA CSA, one is even a direct entry check airmen............... Keep your heads up LE, and Click, well go really king size when I come over this summer .

[LeadingEdge]

Ah, Bratko!

How was the tribunal in Den Haag? Looks like Ms. Del Ponte didnīt give you such a hard time, as you seem to be already back & posting. But your post is spot-on, and I couldnīt have said it better.

LE

AP, I got your PM - just gimme a few days and I will respond to it. Otherwise, click is the one who knows everything, and he is the one who really settled into this country.

[LeadingEdge]

AP, if you check out www.ppjn.com, you will see that CSA indeed is hiring DE CPTs, check out the minimums, theyīre not too bad either.

LE

[Airline Pirate]

Thanks guys!
You were mentioning schedules back there, is it a fixed " X days ON, Y days off?
Just trying to get an idea of how they run rostering and whether theres alot of last minutes changes ect...in other words, is the sched system liveable IF you have (or plan to have) a significant other?
I work for a great company with a sweet schedule 703/704 scheme of things, but averaging only bout 35 hours a month for the last year.....About a grand short of those DE Capt requirements... Living in the boondocks....
Don't mind working my ass off for the next while. I guess after that first few thousand hours the idea is to work less...

[LeadingEdge]

Scheduling depends a lot on what fleet yar on. The 737 guys have got a very nice and liveable roster, with no crappy redeye flights, mostly four legs a day, sometimes a nightstop. Roughly 50-65 hrs a month block hours. The Airbus, being the better airplane, is a totally different game; I heard of guys having 4-8 no - sleep night flights, and the roster could show 95-105 hrs a month.

Overall if I were you I would not move to this country; your lifestyle will go down the drains, as the mentality of the locals is just different; you will have the perception of being in Russia.

LE

[click]

Otherwise, click is the one who knows everything, and he is the one who really settled into this country.

Yah, bite me. No choice pardner....just like when I was at a high school dance, no one wants me. I am showing 65 hours this month and Christmas off. Scheduling is a hit and miss affair but a lot better now then before...unless you fly the joystick.

you will have the perception of being in Russia.

Surely you mean Soviet Union, nay? Booming economy based on gazzillions from oil revenue and obscene wealth of the nouveau riche don't sound like Czecho to me. The everpresent "No money, No glove, No Love is more like it? Nay?"

[LeadingEdge]

Yah, bite me. No choice pardner....just like when I was at a high school dance, no one wants me.

You went to just one high school dance? Last time I have seen you, you looked like moving from one dance to another

[Bratko]

The planek do prdele

I just got done with a very nice productive three day, and I had time to ponder. The deal is your schedule really impacts your quality of life, and even as a junior f/0 at about 65% at the companies most senior base, I spend more time at home with my loved ones then I did as the big relatively senior Kepten. on the 737. AP you really need to peruse the contract and the ops manual, ( don't read the horrible English versions they are not legally binding), there you will find that your schedule is based once again on the good principals of Marks, Engle, and Lenin., I.E. every one is equal and every one shall get the same "schedule" in a rolling 12 month time frame, +/- 5%. Take a deep breath and think about this one, as in theory it might even sound good if your junior, but you can be the 30 year numero uno in your seat , and some newbie gets the same deal. That to me is just plane garbage. You never "bid" on anything dealing with your schedule, you just GET something. On the 20th of the month you "get" you first ten days, then by midnight on the 28th you get the rest of your Planek. So much for planning life events. No remember that you get paid a substantial portion of your salary by hours flown, so guess what +/- 5% does to your bottom line... Remember the door that says in Czech "flight crew entry prohibited" , that is where the +/- 5% turns into +/wayyyy more. L.E is right in that the fleet as allot to do with your flying. Well A.P unless you own a JAA 737 type you can more or less forget about the 737, you'll be on the automatic tampon remover or the very fine A 320. I looked at my old planek and it kind of reflects the A 320 flying right now. Six days of turns, and on the 7th day an all nighter red eye ( with no IRO), make in essence an 8 day work block. Two days off and more of the same....11 days off with one block of four days off in a row. Let me tell you on those days off you are beat. I/m glad for my remaining brothers that this type of flying went to the gurus on the A-320. The other factor is this, everyone’s "line" is essentially a hybrid mix of line holder/reserve/ airport alert. If you look at someone’s Planek then you will notice the flying, then days with an X, those are immovable days off, then after a pairing you might see two days in a row that are blank, those are essential like reserve days, if your legal and they get you on the phone your assignable, and its non negotiable ( you could just turn off your fine company phone and not give them a land line), but every time you start a pairing and end one, it is at the red kiosk that electronically logs you in our out, and here comes the best part the two blank days before your immoveable day can get assigned as you log out, and now its on your line, so too bad if you had plans, and guess what not a red cent of premium pay, oh ya its non negotiable. So when some one over there tells you they have 20 days off on their planek, ask again when the month is done. Oh ya airport alert, thats a joke, and if you don't fly no money, great deal.... No concept of WOCL/biorhythms. And the fact that you do allot of turns sounds enticing, but since they have no duty/trip rig concept, you can have two AMS turns with sit time every where, be on duty for 12-14 ours and get paid for five hours. On the A320 fleet you will be commuting to and from work 15-19 times a month because of this, or many red eye turns ( on IRO) so the vast amounts of "free" time is a hoax, and the many red eyes in a row will take there toll my friend, but look at the good stuff, a "free" phone, pc, uniform, crew meals- with lots of pork, brand new A-320's. Beer in a two liter plasitc bottles, world famous Start smokes, and the world famous Karosa bus, and Tatra truck ,I'm getting teary eyed the dark forces are calling me back. If you go don't bitch, as unlike the "crew" you have been informed. Read the contract.
Frats Bratko

And please LE and click kiss and make up!!!!

[LeadingEdge]

but look at the good stuff, a "free" phone, pc, uniform

The phone is a good one. I just got charged 23000 czechoslovak crowns, they just gave me the paycheck minus the phone usage. Without any explanation, and, because the company is being run very efficient, it took me one hour to locate a person (out of almost 6000) who is responsible for this mess. His explanation of why they charged me this was useless, as always.
OK fine, so I got ripped off here. Letīs see. Oh, parking fees. That is a great one. If you want parking, then they say that it is not guaranteed, but still charge you a monthly "pausalek", which is being deducted from your paycheck, regardless if there are any parking spaces or not, and one has to put the car on the curb at some really ridiculous place (and the police late arrives, as per request of our fine management, and starts to issue fines).

There are other things, like Bratko already mentioned, such as the fine Polyester suit, also called "Uniform". This fine piece of garment gives me shivers. Savile Row suits look like cheap in comparison what they gave us. It is, of course, manufactured in Czechoslovakia, made by a very "famous" company here. Mind you, the buttons come off the second day, and the "trousers" are sewed together in such an incredible way you wouldnīt believe it.

Bratko indicated it already - he might come back. Personally, I am right now thinking of calling this fine company where I passed the selection process and tell them to stick everything up their @rse, as I might be staying with "The worldīs most communist airline".

Anyhow, AP, you have been warned. Further, I canīt understand, with you having an EU passport why you donīt apply to one of the other "few" airlines out here in Europe. Donīt think that the entry tests are easy here, or that you even might get a waiver for being a foreigner. There have been just a few guys who didnīt pass the exams and are not being taken on board the (sinking) ship.

But, even if you elect to "come and see", remember to read lots of Franz Kafka - and keep in mind that there is always waiting and seeing.

LE

[Airline Pirate]

Forgive my naivety,
I have only been back to the motherland twice, once 10 years ago for only three days (don't remember much besides the pubs) and just two months ago for two weeks....
The reason I am looking at CSA is:
I have my father and brother there, thus a place to crash and get set up from moving my life across the world.
Get my ass in a jet/ tampon-remover-with-the-ability-to-move-onto-jet without waiting another 4-5 years in my present situation.
Again said, not sure how the politics and regulations work IN PRACTICE (not theory) in Europe. I have only heard that it is rather difficult to get work for say a British airline with a Czech EU passport, and companies like Lufthansa and Swiss Air require excellent knowledge of their national language...
That being said, if you can point my ignorant butt in the right direction, I shall poke away.....I've only been on PPRUNE for two months now...
My basis for this (rash?) intent is:
I am now 30, and figure it will take me another 4 years before I am on anything aproaching an Airbus/737..... so 5 years "hard time" to be in much better position at age 35 would be worth it considering the choices available to me here in that period.
I have a pretty thick skin after working for some real ****shows... My current employer and the people I work with are great but only logging an average of 35 hours a month right now.... Will have about 430 hours for the year....
Great, if I wanted to settle HERE.
Air Canada at 3500 hrs?= another 3.8 years from where I am at. Great pay (for commuter/air taxi) but absolute wasteland. Stick me in Litvinov anyday compared to the "community" I live in.....
BTW, my old captain just got his "thanks, but please f#ck" off letter from Air Canada, and they only called him to interview after 3500+ hours and his Dash-8 upgrade.

[Bratko]

to check or not

Look AP don't get bent out of shape, if some of the things you have heard are not ear candy, we are trying to paint an Ex pat's picture of CSA, sure some comments we just some wise ass things that I or LE could not let slip by, but the others were based on FACTS, through EXPERIENCE. You can work in the U.K. on a Czecho passport, one of us has, you will need a type on that JAA cert though to make you attractive though. As for the other Euro network carriers, I would forget it as they all have a rough native language test, and its getting that way at CSA as well, so work on that Czech. As far as your comment about your captain and his time and AC, well buddy that’s pretty low time, I had double that TT and half of his time was PIC mainline jet when I got called in at my present job, so just have to keep paying your dues , it sucks but that the way its always been ( except for a chosen few), and that was never my case. In closing good luck, once you sign the dotted line your perception just might change. In retro had I stayed home when I could have at your level, I might have still thought that the Czech Republic was the best thing since sliced bread.
Two of us here have been or are on the interview board, don't take the process lightly if you want to have a fighting chance, just because your Czech is fluent, and you already know work as an airline pilot, there are MANY things that they do different, and I have seen more that a couple of guys just like you go home in shock disappointed ( one of those guys has a great gig in the UK). They will in a heart beat take a < 200 hour local versus you relatively high time, if he get one more "point" in the whole gay process. I would suggest you PM some people. Good luck bud!! P.S. if you denounce your "home" country and tell them how great the Czech Republic is you get lots of points, there are some "ex pats" like that over there.

[Airline Pirate]

No worries!
If that came off as ironic or jaded, its not the case. I am happy and feel very fortunate I am able to make a living as a pilot whether in the Caribbean or Antarctica.


I was trying to just lay it out there for you those that don't understand my rationale for taking a shot at Europe.


By no means do I think there is a job waiting for me, but I feel its worth the extra work to convert my ATPL to JAA so I have alot more oppurtunities to explore.


I guess the grass is always greener, though one of the reasons I became a pilot was to see the world (one redeye sector at a time )
I should be squared away to begin my conversion studies in the next week or two, and would welcome any advice or expat perspective on on how they view or value things differently in the airline industry in Europe. I always tell the people I work and fly with to let me know if there is something I could/should be doing better or differently.... I don't take those things personally. I would rather know this than have bad CRM or not work up to my full potential.I think there's always something new you can learn, even stuff I may think I have a good handle on.


MERRY CHRISTMAS and all the best in the New Year , folks.


BTW, how are the new paintjobs?

[click]

And please LE and click kiss and make up!!!!

Very goodly put Bratko and thanks for taking the time to write it up. I've got the pre-christmas heebe jeebies and couldn't have written it better. AP I'll be in touch. Merry Christmas y'all
click

[Airline Pirate]

Hope that's not the typical CSA flight attendant!