bmi (industrial action vote)
You live in a democracy and that's that.
I'm sure you'd relish in the old Eastern Block where workers have never had any say in the dictatorships of state owned factories.
Here, this is the West and we have a democracy. That is the MAJORITY rule.
I'm sure you'd relish in the old Eastern Block where workers have never had any say in the dictatorships of state owned factories.
Here, this is the West and we have a democracy. That is the MAJORITY rule.
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Not wishing to enter a silly argument, but how are YOU proposing to look after them? By cowaring under what you've got? What's that then?
This is a Pilot website and I propose to have taken a vast interest in pilots and our welfare!
This is a Pilot website and I propose to have taken a vast interest in pilots and our welfare!
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Congratulations!
Well done Mainline and Regional. The thoughts of the majority are loud and clear.
I believe we, in baby, have the strength of feeling, just not it seems, the composure. My personal gripe is the fact that baby management decided to turn there back on the pilots, to shrug their shoulders, to belittle professional people. They telephoned certain FO's and Capt's. They banned BALPA from the crew rooms.
NO SAY? NO WAY!
Thank you for drawing that line in the sand.
...can't resist. got to admit, Couldn't help but have a quick chuckle at the expense of mccdatabase when i read the results.
I believe we, in baby, have the strength of feeling, just not it seems, the composure. My personal gripe is the fact that baby management decided to turn there back on the pilots, to shrug their shoulders, to belittle professional people. They telephoned certain FO's and Capt's. They banned BALPA from the crew rooms.
NO SAY? NO WAY!
Thank you for drawing that line in the sand.
...can't resist. got to admit, Couldn't help but have a quick chuckle at the expense of mccdatabase when i read the results.
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Get your BALPA applications in NOW!
Originally Posted by sjm
"What makes it such a strong result is not just the vote itself but the turnout figures!"
Can anyone explain why the balpa membership is so low in baby and do you think the baby vote would have carried as much weight without the other two votes.
Can anyone explain why the balpa membership is so low in baby and do you think the baby vote would have carried as much weight without the other two votes.
A 72% in favour is a significant YES vote in itself and can't be undermined. It just happens that the other two were massive endorsements of the pay claims in their respective corners.
Originally Posted by sjm
Surely Balpa should now launch a recruitment offensive on the back of the recent success. I have to admit that I am amazed Balpa were sat in crewrooms trying to get people to join up, when even if they did they were unable to vote and so seemed a pointless exercise.
Originally Posted by sjm
I would have liked to have seen this proactive recruitment weeks before the ballot papers went out in order to ensure a high percentage of the company could at least vote!
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ragamuffin
...can't resist. got to admit, Couldn't help but have a quick chuckle at the expense of mccdatabase when i read the results.
...can't resist. got to admit, Couldn't help but have a quick chuckle at the expense of mccdatabase when i read the results.
I don't really think he's a pilot, but a "stunt" by management.
Finally, thanks all who voted YES, our very futures are being shaped these very minutes, by a very disheartened management board.
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mentaleena
mccdatabase is allowed to have his opinion, attempting to gag him / her won't get you anywhere. And niether will "slave like existence we've been suffering from"
O really, go on give me your last 3 months rosters?
mccdatabase is allowed to have his opinion, attempting to gag him / her won't get you anywhere. And niether will "slave like existence we've been suffering from"
O really, go on give me your last 3 months rosters?
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B Eagle,
With the greatest respect, mcc has not ever offered one iota of a suggestion as an alternative to THE vote.
I also don't think that this thread should be allowed to be hijacked by one individual who is very much in the minority, when most pilots can see the light behind these decisions.
Lets debate the future, not some "nonsensical alternative" shall we??
With the greatest respect, mcc has not ever offered one iota of a suggestion as an alternative to THE vote.
I also don't think that this thread should be allowed to be hijacked by one individual who is very much in the minority, when most pilots can see the light behind these decisions.
Lets debate the future, not some "nonsensical alternative" shall we??
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Having watched this thread with interest and as an employee of bmibaby I can assure you that the flight deck DO NOT have the support of the rest of the baby staff. Everyone I have spoken with has used one of the following terms 'mercenary – selfish – self-centred – greedy’ and many other which are unrepeatable.
Your arrogance at believing you have our support is as misguided as the letter distributed by BALPA claiming this. Lies, lies and more damn lies.
You make constant reference to the ‘enforced’ pay rise but have you thought of the personnel who make it possible for you to fly, they earn far less than you and have accepted 2.4% as reasonable considering the present economic situation.
They do not receive £500 for selling a day off – of which pilots have many!
Baby staff have an agreement for profit share – it was previously a fixed sum and then 100% of the pot was spread amongst the staff based on wages.
It was changed to 50% by wage and 50% split per person without your permission god forbid and the management reversed this in attempt to placate your greed.
Neither you nor BALPA have made any mention of this – God forbid you should reveal to your co-workers that your greed has left them out of pocket or that the management have tried to appease you.
We know that bookings for Aug / Sept have been affected by BALPA’s decision to broadcast this dispute to the press; as such there is very little chance of receiving our bonus at all. Thanks.
On the issue of the extra tax you have to pay – do you think you are so special that you don’t need to pay tax at the going rate; as far as I’m concerned they should back date it.
Mccdatabase maybe I can take the flack for awhile as I am entitled to my opinion (moist take note) - I may not respond immediately (keepitlit take note) - Sorry for telling the truth (one four sick take note).
“Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed”
Mahatma Gandhi
Gravity’s a myth the earth sucks !!!
Your arrogance at believing you have our support is as misguided as the letter distributed by BALPA claiming this. Lies, lies and more damn lies.
You make constant reference to the ‘enforced’ pay rise but have you thought of the personnel who make it possible for you to fly, they earn far less than you and have accepted 2.4% as reasonable considering the present economic situation.
They do not receive £500 for selling a day off – of which pilots have many!
Baby staff have an agreement for profit share – it was previously a fixed sum and then 100% of the pot was spread amongst the staff based on wages.
It was changed to 50% by wage and 50% split per person without your permission god forbid and the management reversed this in attempt to placate your greed.
Neither you nor BALPA have made any mention of this – God forbid you should reveal to your co-workers that your greed has left them out of pocket or that the management have tried to appease you.
We know that bookings for Aug / Sept have been affected by BALPA’s decision to broadcast this dispute to the press; as such there is very little chance of receiving our bonus at all. Thanks.
On the issue of the extra tax you have to pay – do you think you are so special that you don’t need to pay tax at the going rate; as far as I’m concerned they should back date it.
Mccdatabase maybe I can take the flack for awhile as I am entitled to my opinion (moist take note) - I may not respond immediately (keepitlit take note) - Sorry for telling the truth (one four sick take note).
“Earth provides enough to satisfy every man's need, but not every man's greed”
Mahatma Gandhi
Gravity’s a myth the earth sucks !!!
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Well said Clevis Pin. At the risk of repeating myself from an earlier post I can't believe the arrogance of most of what I've been reading. Virtually no-one has mentioned the most important part of this debate. The PASSENGER!! They pay the wages - not the management. And if I was planning to fly bmi or bmibaby in the near future I'd cetainly think again. And under these circumstances I'd be amazed if ANY pay offer was on the table. More than likely a reduction or redundancies.
Anyone would think that bmi was forcing you under duress to work for them. If you don't like it there is a very simple solution. LEAVE!
Anyone would think that bmi was forcing you under duress to work for them. If you don't like it there is a very simple solution. LEAVE!
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Clevis, you seem happy to have accepted the imposed pay deal, how wonderful for you. The 'present economic situation' you refer to, is, I assume that which has been painted for you by our management. Enough said about that, I think.
Pilots have, and do, consider the welfare of those around them: believe it or not, on a day-to-day basis that is their primary responsibility. The PASSENGER (as jordan puts it),is usually at the ultimate forefront of every operational decision pilots make, every minute of the working day. At some point it must be time to start thinking of one's own self and family circumstances.
Pilots have specialist skills, managerial responsibilities, and experience which is comparable to no other employee group anywhere in the industry, except perhaps in engineering (and look what happened to the bmi engineers recently). The reason the dispute stretches across all 3 parts of the business is because their contribution has been consistently undervalued, and their quality of life eroded to the point at which they are no longer prepared to accept further bully-boy management tactics.
£500 is what Captains get if they work on a day off - operative words being 'day off', they do not have to, but are prepared to give up some of their free time to support the operation. In return the company rewards them the (pay attention now) minimum amount they can get away with in order to ensure that enough of them do so if asked, else the program would have collapsed years ago and none of bmibaby would still be in jobs.
You want £500 for a day off? Go back to school, take out a £75000 loan, train for 18mths, then compete for selection with hundreds of others and maybe you'll get a chance to earn that once or twice a month in about 7 years time.
Pilots already pay far more tax than you do, and if you can't be bothered to try and minimise that amount by use of the laws existing in this country for that purpose then you really are daft. The tax rules within bmibaby changed as result of a management decision that was warned against by the pilots, their ignorance/incompetence cost pilots lots of money. If they forgot to pay you one month would you be happy with "sorry, nothing we can do about it now?". I think not.
Profitshare rules are unchanged, not as a management concession, but because it would have been illegal for them to change them in the first place without consultation, since they form part of the pilots' contract. If the management said to you one day "by the way you have to work 6 on 2 off until further notice and we're also stopping you pension payments", wouldn't you be a littel unhappy at the illegal change to your contract?
Clevis, your post seems to stink more of jealousy of pilots than of any real understanding of the issues under discussion here, you also appear to have swallowed everything you have ever been told by management.
Are you already on the bmi board, by any chance?
Pilots have, and do, consider the welfare of those around them: believe it or not, on a day-to-day basis that is their primary responsibility. The PASSENGER (as jordan puts it),is usually at the ultimate forefront of every operational decision pilots make, every minute of the working day. At some point it must be time to start thinking of one's own self and family circumstances.
Pilots have specialist skills, managerial responsibilities, and experience which is comparable to no other employee group anywhere in the industry, except perhaps in engineering (and look what happened to the bmi engineers recently). The reason the dispute stretches across all 3 parts of the business is because their contribution has been consistently undervalued, and their quality of life eroded to the point at which they are no longer prepared to accept further bully-boy management tactics.
£500 is what Captains get if they work on a day off - operative words being 'day off', they do not have to, but are prepared to give up some of their free time to support the operation. In return the company rewards them the (pay attention now) minimum amount they can get away with in order to ensure that enough of them do so if asked, else the program would have collapsed years ago and none of bmibaby would still be in jobs.
You want £500 for a day off? Go back to school, take out a £75000 loan, train for 18mths, then compete for selection with hundreds of others and maybe you'll get a chance to earn that once or twice a month in about 7 years time.
Pilots already pay far more tax than you do, and if you can't be bothered to try and minimise that amount by use of the laws existing in this country for that purpose then you really are daft. The tax rules within bmibaby changed as result of a management decision that was warned against by the pilots, their ignorance/incompetence cost pilots lots of money. If they forgot to pay you one month would you be happy with "sorry, nothing we can do about it now?". I think not.
Profitshare rules are unchanged, not as a management concession, but because it would have been illegal for them to change them in the first place without consultation, since they form part of the pilots' contract. If the management said to you one day "by the way you have to work 6 on 2 off until further notice and we're also stopping you pension payments", wouldn't you be a littel unhappy at the illegal change to your contract?
Clevis, your post seems to stink more of jealousy of pilots than of any real understanding of the issues under discussion here, you also appear to have swallowed everything you have ever been told by management.
Are you already on the bmi board, by any chance?
Gary Lager - well said - I quite agree with you!
Reminds me of an occasion many years ago when I was flying for a charter airline and the engineers were complaining that the pilots got yearly increments so why shouldn't they get the same?
The CEO at a staff meeting said "It's quite simple - if you want pilot's pay, become a pilot!".
Having been in professional aviation for circa 25 years with a variety of different companies I can tell you that 99% of pilots bend over backwards to keep the show on the road and I am sure this is the case in BMI.
However, at some stage a line has to be drawn in the sand and I am pleased to hear that the BMI pilots are doing that. I do not claim to know all the reasons as to why they have voted for strike action but I do know that pilots are a reasonable bunch of employees and would only take such action if they feel that their concerns are not being heard.
I say Good Luck to all at BMI - let's hope this vote will make management sit up and start listening to the people who work "up the sharp end"!
Reminds me of an occasion many years ago when I was flying for a charter airline and the engineers were complaining that the pilots got yearly increments so why shouldn't they get the same?
The CEO at a staff meeting said "It's quite simple - if you want pilot's pay, become a pilot!".
Having been in professional aviation for circa 25 years with a variety of different companies I can tell you that 99% of pilots bend over backwards to keep the show on the road and I am sure this is the case in BMI.
However, at some stage a line has to be drawn in the sand and I am pleased to hear that the BMI pilots are doing that. I do not claim to know all the reasons as to why they have voted for strike action but I do know that pilots are a reasonable bunch of employees and would only take such action if they feel that their concerns are not being heard.
I say Good Luck to all at BMI - let's hope this vote will make management sit up and start listening to the people who work "up the sharp end"!
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I think you'll find, Jordan, that the most important part of the debate is that planes don't fly without pilots
Think you will find they dont fly without technical input from highly trained Licensed engineers, but they dont get paid much at all,
2.4 % of a pilots salary is more than most people earn
Think you will find they dont fly without technical input from highly trained Licensed engineers, but they dont get paid much at all,
2.4 % of a pilots salary is more than most people earn
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Originally Posted by NWT
2.4 % of a pilots salary is more than most people earn
By that reckoning pilots must earn about £958,000 a year (x 2.4% = £23,000 - the UK median average income).
I think not.
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Originally Posted by clevis pin
Your arrogance at believing you have our support is as misguided as the letter distributed by BALPA claiming this.
We are fighting our own corner here. Your respective unions are only as strong as their membership. As demonstrated by the ballot outcome, ours is as strong as ever, how is yours? 
I'm sure CP that you are a perfectly well balanced person (with a chip on both shoulders) but your comments are neither welcome nor constructive.
I really don't care if I have the support of the rest of the airline or not! We are fighting our own corner here. Your respective unions are only as strong as their membership. As demonstrated by the ballot outcome, ours is as strong as ever, how is yours?
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What I fail to understand is why do some people come onto this website to slag off pilots. It is a Pilots' website. If they are not pilots then why don't they play on their own playground?
I can't imagine myself going onto some very interesting website that NWT, jordan, mccdata or clevis's profession may have set up and slag them off there!
Hell, I'd fall asleep half way surfin' there!
Give us a break, let us discuss our own issues purely between equals and don't attempt to pretend that you might be worth the same as a pilot. Yes, sure you're worth something, but by far differently, in a different currency
I can't imagine myself going onto some very interesting website that NWT, jordan, mccdata or clevis's profession may have set up and slag them off there!
Hell, I'd fall asleep half way surfin' there!
Give us a break, let us discuss our own issues purely between equals and don't attempt to pretend that you might be worth the same as a pilot. Yes, sure you're worth something, but by far differently, in a different currency
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Originally Posted by mccdatabase
It would seem that the management "divide and conquer" strategy has succeeded,:
I am merely stating that the support (or not in your case) of the extended workforce will not have any baring on a favourable outcome.
I care for all my colleagues, and have the utmost respect for them in their respective fields, but I don't feel that we need their support. If we were in a weaker position I may have a mind to reconsider.
