We should ask for more money
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is interesting as your profile says you only have a PPL...
I also stand by my belief that if you have the co-ordination to drive a manual car you have the co-ordination to fly an aircraft; some may find it easier or more natural but I would say that there are very few who cannot achieve it in the end. There are a lot of pilots out there who seem to believe that they are God's gift because they have learned to fly a plane. As a pilot I am not one of them.
And Maximum I do believe that the ATPL exams (I must admit I was thinking more about the thoery) are a lot easier than a lot of people seem to claim. I do not wish to belittle those who struggle (I find the theory a lot easier than the stick and pedals) but some people find academia difficult at any given level - there are plenty who cannot pass GCSEs and there are those who find it a breeze till they get to PhD level.
The bottom line is that those exams, the skills training and flight tests and then a large dose of luck (the last being the most important - although with regard to CVs etc you can make your own luck) is entirely what it takes to be an airline pilot. (as the legal minimum - I don't intend to start listing the required personal qualities) I accept that lots of people make huge sacrifices to go down this route but for a lot of them this is because of finances. From an integrated course you can achieve an ATPL pretty quickly as long as you have the money.
I love my job but I am amused when people keep comparing it to others whith which (in my opinion) it does not compare. I do not wish to denigrade myself or others but there seems to be a lot of people who put themselves on a par with brain surgeons because they can fly a plane.
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I also stand by my belief that if you have the co-ordination to drive a manual car you have the co-ordination to fly an aircraft; some may find it easier or more natural but I would say that there are very few who cannot achieve it in the end.
I have young Ropey, spent quite a few years teaching PPL's and CPL's and I can tell you this... your statement is utter
There are a lot of pilots out there who seem to believe that they are God's gift because they have learned to fly a plane.
on a par with brain surgeons because they can fly a plane.
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I do not wish to denigrade myself
As Meeb says, you've obviously never been involved in any training role. As an airline trainer, who's also involved in recruitment, take it from me, there are plenty of people out there who not only can drive a car, wow! and who can also fly a light aircraft, wow! again, but who absolutely cannot and will never be able to fly a jet airliner. You're talking complete hogwash.
If anything, you simply show a disappointing trend in modern aviation. You appear to have no respect for the job, or pride in what you're doing. You're certainly not what I would class as an airman or fellow aviator. God only knows where you get your ideas from or why you're doing the job in the first place.
When I dreamed of flying as a child, there's no way I could have imagined professional pilots talking about the job the way you do. How sad.........
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I think we are getting away from the topic here and turning into a slagging match - I have an opinion and you obviously disagree but anyway...
Carnage, yes people who fail flight tests can drive a car. Some people can pass a driving test after 3 lessons, some will take many months and many attempts but they will still pass and a few will never learn. I believe that the same is true in aviation - some are naturals and learn quickly some will take a lot longer and fail more often and there are a few who will never pass. I believe there is nothing magical about aviation - if you can accelerate a car round a corner while changing gear, swithching to full beam, chat on your handfree mobile phone while looking out for hazards the whole time you have the co-ordination to use both hands and feet for different tasks at the same time and could probably be taught to fly - how quickly is a different matter, especially with the lack of continuity some people have due to time/financial reastraints.
maximum - I apologise for my poor spelling but I had been sniffing a few wine gums last night - I had also never heard of the word in question so I actually thought I has cut and pasted it from the earlier post, so how it ended up mispelt I don't know
And you are right - I have never been involved in a training role I have only been trained alongide others of varying abilities. If that precludes me from offering an opinion on the subject then quite a few posts on this entire website will have to be removed. You obviously have greater knowledge of training and feel that your point is more vailid - fine but it is only your point and I do not have to agree with it. If you could come up with some slightly more persuasive arguements than "your statement is utter " then I might change my point of view (learning from other people is how statements are formed and changed all of us have done nothing more than state our position - I am aware that I have no triumphant story to back mine up with but yours would be more persuasive with some backing too for example how many people drop out of a £70,000 integrated course having spent £50,000 already would be an exmple of someone who really can't complete the course. Those who cease training at PPL level wouldn't really prove the point either way because I would state they gave up too soon and you would stse that they were untrainable).
And I do respect my job, it is a very responsible role and I have worked hard to get there. That doesn't change the fact that I think that the minimum legal standards required to get there could be achieved by most people with enough time, effort and money. Most people could also be a doctor - medical school is predominantly a memory test, it just takes a lot longer and (in my opinion) more effort. It doesn't mean in either case that the individuals temprament is ideally suited to the job or that they will be the best person for it I just think that flying isn't the unachieveable skill that many holders seem to believe it is. During my training I noticed that those in my crammer groups who thought that the ATPL exams were a pinnacle of achievement (and equal to a degree I've had that discussion - they are 14 multiple choice exams that can be finished in 6 months or less if you can devote the time to it!) tended to be those who had not worked at school and for the first time were working hard and regularly at an academic subject. Well done (and I don't mean that sarcastically) but the fact that one person may have struggled doesn't mean that the exams are either unachievable or too hard it just means that one person had to devote more time to passing.
If you want to add some constructive backing to the points raised in the previous posts then please feel free - otherwise can we agree to differ and get back to the question in hand with differing points of view as I am sure this is getting very tedious for everyone else!
Carnage, yes people who fail flight tests can drive a car. Some people can pass a driving test after 3 lessons, some will take many months and many attempts but they will still pass and a few will never learn. I believe that the same is true in aviation - some are naturals and learn quickly some will take a lot longer and fail more often and there are a few who will never pass. I believe there is nothing magical about aviation - if you can accelerate a car round a corner while changing gear, swithching to full beam, chat on your handfree mobile phone while looking out for hazards the whole time you have the co-ordination to use both hands and feet for different tasks at the same time and could probably be taught to fly - how quickly is a different matter, especially with the lack of continuity some people have due to time/financial reastraints.
maximum - I apologise for my poor spelling but I had been sniffing a few wine gums last night - I had also never heard of the word in question so I actually thought I has cut and pasted it from the earlier post, so how it ended up mispelt I don't know
And you are right - I have never been involved in a training role I have only been trained alongide others of varying abilities. If that precludes me from offering an opinion on the subject then quite a few posts on this entire website will have to be removed. You obviously have greater knowledge of training and feel that your point is more vailid - fine but it is only your point and I do not have to agree with it. If you could come up with some slightly more persuasive arguements than "your statement is utter
" then I might change my point of view (learning from other people is how statements are formed and changed all of us have done nothing more than state our position - I am aware that I have no triumphant story to back mine up with but yours would be more persuasive with some backing too for example how many people drop out of a £70,000 integrated course having spent £50,000 already would be an exmple of someone who really can't complete the course. Those who cease training at PPL level wouldn't really prove the point either way because I would state they gave up too soon and you would stse that they were untrainable).And I do respect my job, it is a very responsible role and I have worked hard to get there. That doesn't change the fact that I think that the minimum legal standards required to get there could be achieved by most people with enough time, effort and money. Most people could also be a doctor - medical school is predominantly a memory test, it just takes a lot longer and (in my opinion) more effort. It doesn't mean in either case that the individuals temprament is ideally suited to the job or that they will be the best person for it I just think that flying isn't the unachieveable skill that many holders seem to believe it is. During my training I noticed that those in my crammer groups who thought that the ATPL exams were a pinnacle of achievement (and equal to a degree I've had that discussion - they are 14 multiple choice exams that can be finished in 6 months or less if you can devote the time to it!) tended to be those who had not worked at school and for the first time were working hard and regularly at an academic subject. Well done (and I don't mean that sarcastically) but the fact that one person may have struggled doesn't mean that the exams are either unachievable or too hard it just means that one person had to devote more time to passing.
If you want to add some constructive backing to the points raised in the previous posts then please feel free - otherwise can we agree to differ and get back to the question in hand with differing points of view as I am sure this is getting very tedious for everyone else!
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if you can accelerate a car round a corner while changing gear, swithching to full beam, chat on your handfree mobile phone while looking out for hazards the whole time you have the co-ordination to use both hands and feet for different tasks at the same time and could probably be taught to fly - how quickly is a different matter, especially with the lack of continuity some people have due to time/financial reastraints
I base my argument on my experience of seeing plenty of people fall by the wayside all along the career path. For example, even some experienced first-officers fail to become Captains. Just one example.
And I'm not talking about the ATPL groundschool here - you seem to focus on that more than the flying. The ATPL groundschool has so little to do with the real world.
Your contention that the ability to drive a car is on a par with being a professional airline pilot remains, in my opinion, invalid.
How can you hope to have decent terms and conditions throughout your career with an attitude like that? Airline bosses will be laughing all the way to the bank....................
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I have never mentioned Captaincy (nor, I believe, has anyone else on this thread) - this is about whether pilots deserve more money(and also why discussions amongst people with differing points of view are much harder on t'internet than face to face as you cannot see if the other party is getting the point you are making and it is a very long and tedious process to do this online as we are seeing - not that I think we will ever agree, but it is always nice to be sure what we disagree over).
In answer to your question the level I am referring to is a shiny new fATPL/IR because that is the point up to which you can do as much time as you like to get up to standard.
To get to the LHS is an entirely different case from that mentioned above since an airline will be able to see your performance daily and know you and your strengths/weaknesses and trainability. Also, unlike the CPL/IR if you are a bit weak in certain aspects of 737 handling (as an example) you cannot put the time in to make it up outside that which is allocated to you by the company - so from this point on the fact that everyone can do it but will learn at different speeds becomes supremely important because if you cannot do it with the time allocated then you can't put in any extra.
I also agree with you that many will not make this jump - I hope I am not one of them when my time comes but I will just have to wait and see.
A CPL or IR skills test is a one off deal. The standards in these tests are very high but that does not mean that they can't be passed by a weak pilot on a good day (or conversely failed by a strong pilot on a bad day) but your school should have given you sufficient training to reach that stage. Unless I am mistaken (and I may well be - that is my entire point about forming opinions based on things more knowledgable people can tell you ) there is a min number of hours required before attempting skills tests but no maximum (and even if there is a max you could fly every day for a year with a mate and not log it). But the bottom line is that if you have enough money you can fly regularly for years in order to get up to the standard and I believe that most people could do that.
My point is that many people seem to think that they are something special because they have made it to the RHS of a transport aircraft - and it is that which I disagree with. It is laudable achievement, yes but in my opinion not any more so than many other jobs with greatly varying financial rewards and demands on one's time. It is also a notion held by a large proportion of the population - as evidenced by the fact that people will go into bars pretending to be a pilot in order to 'tap off'! (and also on anonymous chat forums - that I can't understand; it is not as if that will help you pull!)
And I am aware that I am focussing on written exams - purely because they have a very easily definable score at the end of it - flying skills tests are much harder to quantify and the standards achieved by the same individual will vary much more widely in this aspect than in written exams and hence are much more subjective (but then again being subjective about skill and co-ordination is the main thrust of my arguement, so touche.)
My contention is not that the ability to drive a car is on a par with being a professional airline pilot. it is that if you have the ability to be trained to drive a car (which in the discussion you have) then you also have the ability to be trained as a professional airline pilot. You also need dedication, time and money amongst other things which many people do not have and hence they shall never fly - but it doesn't mean that they couldn't - we will probably always disagree on this but I won't be losing any sleep over it and neither should you!
I think the problem is that many believe as pilots they are a special case and so do not realise that they are simply qualified professionals at a cost to their employer. While many sit and complain that they are not treated specially enough they need to bargain as employees with skills - nothing more and nothing less. Briefly going back to the doctors case - that is why they were screwed over years ago, they thought their special training status would ensure special treatment - it didn't. Recently they have negotiated as highly trained employees and guess what - they have got paid more money and now work fewer hours! Do we have something to learn from this?
In answer to your question the level I am referring to is a shiny new fATPL/IR because that is the point up to which you can do as much time as you like to get up to standard.
To get to the LHS is an entirely different case from that mentioned above since an airline will be able to see your performance daily and know you and your strengths/weaknesses and trainability. Also, unlike the CPL/IR if you are a bit weak in certain aspects of 737 handling (as an example) you cannot put the time in to make it up outside that which is allocated to you by the company - so from this point on the fact that everyone can do it but will learn at different speeds becomes supremely important because if you cannot do it with the time allocated then you can't put in any extra.
I also agree with you that many will not make this jump - I hope I am not one of them when my time comes but I will just have to wait and see.
A CPL or IR skills test is a one off deal. The standards in these tests are very high but that does not mean that they can't be passed by a weak pilot on a good day (or conversely failed by a strong pilot on a bad day) but your school should have given you sufficient training to reach that stage. Unless I am mistaken (and I may well be - that is my entire point about forming opinions based on things more knowledgable people can tell you ) there is a min number of hours required before attempting skills tests but no maximum (and even if there is a max you could fly every day for a year with a mate and not log it). But the bottom line is that if you have enough money you can fly regularly for years in order to get up to the standard and I believe that most people could do that.
My point is that many people seem to think that they are something special because they have made it to the RHS of a transport aircraft - and it is that which I disagree with. It is laudable achievement, yes but in my opinion not any more so than many other jobs with greatly varying financial rewards and demands on one's time. It is also a notion held by a large proportion of the population - as evidenced by the fact that people will go into bars pretending to be a pilot in order to 'tap off'! (and also on anonymous chat forums - that I can't understand; it is not as if that will help you pull!)
And I am aware that I am focussing on written exams - purely because they have a very easily definable score at the end of it - flying skills tests are much harder to quantify and the standards achieved by the same individual will vary much more widely in this aspect than in written exams and hence are much more subjective (but then again being subjective about skill and co-ordination is the main thrust of my arguement, so touche.)
Your contention that the ability to drive a car is on a par with being a professional airline pilot remains, in my opinion, invalid.
How can you hope to have decent terms and conditions throughout your career with an attitude like that? Airline bosses will be laughing all the way to the bank....................
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I have never mentioned Captaincy (nor, I believe, has anyone else on this thread) - this is about whether pilots deserve more money
if you have the ability to be trained to drive a car (which in the discussion you have) then you also have the ability to be trained as a professional airline pilot
I think the problem is that many believe as pilots they are a special case and so do not realise that they are simply qualified professionals at a cost to their employer
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Airlines don't want career First Officers and no-one wants to be one, but they exist and all those involved started at the bottom. As no-one seems to have specified that this thread is that Captains should be paid more as opposed to all pilots I didn't assume that in my discussion. (wheras it looks like you have- hence my point about discussing face-to-face being much easier. Actually re-reading the posts you did mention Captaincy earlier while I thoughtI was pretty obviously talking about the RHS; it seems we were talking slightly at cross purposes).
With neither of us having any hard evidence about the trainability of candidates I am glad we can now simply agree to disagree.
And with reference to your final point I would love to be the captain of the 60s and 70s on footballers wages and living like a rock star (ahem...
). But the sad fact of the matter is that market forces are at work. It does not matter how responsible we are (or think we are - more subjective arguements) no-one is going to give us a chunk of their profits because they think we deserve it no matter how much you want them to!
Unfortunately because, with all the factors listed before, the fATPL is achievable by most (the opinion of this author does not constitue the collective opinion of this or any other thread
) there are a lot of unemployed pilots. This has driven down Ts & Cs (especially with regards to type ratings - my flight school was telling me about the good old days where an airline recruiter came to the school and offered to pay for you IR if you had a CPL!). It is also those who look skywards and dream but cannot be dispassionate about their employment who have affected the market too (I would live in a shoebox and fly for free if someone would let me - which payroll dept would turn that offer down?). I suppose it boils down to whether you approach this discussion from a standpoint that has nothing to do with achievability (I think our job is infinitely more responsible than that of a professional footballer and hence we should be paid more; which I agree with I just don't think upping our salaries to match theirs will work!) or realism (we will only ever be paid the lowest salary required to fill the seats with suitably qualifed personnel - and we are the ones who determine that price, not the beancounters, they simply start the offers low and up it till it works!)
With neither of us having any hard evidence about the trainability of candidates I am glad we can now simply agree to disagree.
And with reference to your final point I would love to be the captain of the 60s and 70s on footballers wages and living like a rock star (ahem...
). But the sad fact of the matter is that market forces are at work. It does not matter how responsible we are (or think we are - more subjective arguements) no-one is going to give us a chunk of their profits because they think we deserve it no matter how much you want them to! Unfortunately because, with all the factors listed before, the fATPL is achievable by most (the opinion of this author does not constitue the collective opinion of this or any other thread
) there are a lot of unemployed pilots. This has driven down Ts & Cs (especially with regards to type ratings - my flight school was telling me about the good old days where an airline recruiter came to the school and offered to pay for you IR if you had a CPL!). It is also those who look skywards and dream but cannot be dispassionate about their employment who have affected the market too (I would live in a shoebox and fly for free if someone would let me - which payroll dept would turn that offer down?). I suppose it boils down to whether you approach this discussion from a standpoint that has nothing to do with achievability (I think our job is infinitely more responsible than that of a professional footballer and hence we should be paid more; which I agree with I just don't think upping our salaries to match theirs will work!) or realism (we will only ever be paid the lowest salary required to fill the seats with suitably qualifed personnel - and we are the ones who determine that price, not the beancounters, they simply start the offers low and up it till it works!)
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Cor blimey Ropey, maybe it's my age or something! (and I'm actually not that old).
I just feel that you're like a defence attorney arguing the case for the prosecution as well.
If we as professional pilots don't put our case forward in the strongest possible terms, who will?
How do you see your future in flying?
I just feel that you're like a defence attorney arguing the case for the prosecution as well.
If we as professional pilots don't put our case forward in the strongest possible terms, who will?
How do you see your future in flying?
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Max (we seem to have calmed down a bit so I'll be a bit casual)
I think my point is that this thread ultimately has no point and last night I was looking a a way to fill some time having had a few. I have subsequently spent my time responding to direct attacks/discussion from those who didn't fully get my point/disagree
What case are you putting forward and to who?
Do you intend to cherry pick the best points from this thread, go to your Ops director and say look we deserve more money because of x? It won't make any difference I can assure you.
Or is this thread simply for pilots to complain about the fact they aren't paid as much as they would like - in which case I would join in - sounds like a night down the pub; a group of pilots, a few beers and several hours of whinging and I'm there with the best of them.
As it is I am simply trying to offer another point of view but I feel as if I have 'defected' to the non-pilots side for not toeing tha party line!Our Ts & Cs will only improve if companies have no choice but to pay them. If an entire fleet rejects a pay deal and proposes industrial action people have to take notice! They cannot simply take on newcomers on worse Ts & Cs as has been happening steadily now for some time. As has been said by myself (and others) market forces rule - what you think you are worth depends only on how replaceable you are - not by how responsible/skillful you are or believe yourself to be. Pay can be improved if we all agree and take steps to ensure it. Dreamily opining that we are worth more than this is merely a waste of pixels.
I think my point is that this thread ultimately has no point and last night I was looking a a way to fill some time having had a few. I have subsequently spent my time responding to direct attacks/discussion from those who didn't fully get my point/disagree
If we as professional pilots don't put our case forward in the strongest possible terms, who will?
Do you intend to cherry pick the best points from this thread, go to your Ops director and say look we deserve more money because of x? It won't make any difference I can assure you.
Or is this thread simply for pilots to complain about the fact they aren't paid as much as they would like - in which case I would join in - sounds like a night down the pub; a group of pilots, a few beers and several hours of whinging and I'm there with the best of them.
As it is I am simply trying to offer another point of view but I feel as if I have 'defected' to the non-pilots side for not toeing tha party line!Our Ts & Cs will only improve if companies have no choice but to pay them. If an entire fleet rejects a pay deal and proposes industrial action people have to take notice! They cannot simply take on newcomers on worse Ts & Cs as has been happening steadily now for some time. As has been said by myself (and others) market forces rule - what you think you are worth depends only on how replaceable you are - not by how responsible/skillful you are or believe yourself to be. Pay can be improved if we all agree and take steps to ensure it. Dreamily opining that we are worth more than this is merely a waste of pixels.
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I have an idea and would like your feedback please.
How about we are paid per block hour instead
of a fixed salary???
Iam going to use USD as an example.
Lets say we start with 50USD/hr for every pilot.
10 usd increment for every 1000 hrs aquired
for a captain, and 7 usd for F/O.
So a captain with 10000hrs will cash 150/hr
and F/O with 10000hrs will cash 120/hr.
Not to forget ofcourse duty hrs ,lets say 15 usd/hr.
The pay increment should be for the total hrs flown.
Example: F/O with 5000hrs will be making 85usd/hr
and when he is upgraded he will make 100/hr.
With this system pay is based on experience and
not on a company seniority.
Ofcourse somebody might argue that airlines
will not hire F/Os with lots of hrs. maybe but
if they do then they are forced to spend on training
new pilots, so we solve the problem of young pilots
who must borrow money to pay for their own typerating.
If airlines stop or delay upgrades they will run out of
captains.
Airlines must pay for experience,especially when sometimes
they put ridiculous requirements in their recruitment ads.
After all lots of professions are paid per hour.
How about we are paid per block hour instead
of a fixed salary???
Iam going to use USD as an example.
Lets say we start with 50USD/hr for every pilot.
10 usd increment for every 1000 hrs aquired
for a captain, and 7 usd for F/O.
So a captain with 10000hrs will cash 150/hr
and F/O with 10000hrs will cash 120/hr.
Not to forget ofcourse duty hrs ,lets say 15 usd/hr.
The pay increment should be for the total hrs flown.
Example: F/O with 5000hrs will be making 85usd/hr
and when he is upgraded he will make 100/hr.
With this system pay is based on experience and
not on a company seniority.
Ofcourse somebody might argue that airlines
will not hire F/Os with lots of hrs. maybe but
if they do then they are forced to spend on training
new pilots, so we solve the problem of young pilots
who must borrow money to pay for their own typerating.
If airlines stop or delay upgrades they will run out of
captains.
Airlines must pay for experience,especially when sometimes
they put ridiculous requirements in their recruitment ads.
After all lots of professions are paid per hour.
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Not sure that would work tarik:
Lots of professions are paid by the hour with differing fees depending on experience.
As an example I will use a Lawyer. I want a lawyer so go and find one that I can afford with appropriate experience - fine.
Problem is that aviation doesn't work like that - hundreds of people are hiring you simultaneously and the ticket price is fixed - so it is not the customer that has a say in the price they pay for the pilot. That is where the problem occurs - with those whose say it is, ie the beancounters.
They don't care how much experience you have, just that you are legal - they are lots of safeguards to ensure that even a junior FO with a junior Capt don't crash and put passgeners off flying with them. So what they will do is hire an entire fleet of 250 hour FOs and 1500 hour Capts. If you are working with the company and you accrue too many hours (and become too expensive) they cease to use you - effectively sacking you for gaining too much experience.
Lots of professions are paid by the hour with differing fees depending on experience.
As an example I will use a Lawyer. I want a lawyer so go and find one that I can afford with appropriate experience - fine.
Problem is that aviation doesn't work like that - hundreds of people are hiring you simultaneously and the ticket price is fixed - so it is not the customer that has a say in the price they pay for the pilot. That is where the problem occurs - with those whose say it is, ie the beancounters.
They don't care how much experience you have, just that you are legal - they are lots of safeguards to ensure that even a junior FO with a junior Capt don't crash and put passgeners off flying with them. So what they will do is hire an entire fleet of 250 hour FOs and 1500 hour Capts. If you are working with the company and you accrue too many hours (and become too expensive) they cease to use you - effectively sacking you for gaining too much experience.
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So it is because of people like Ropey that pilots are rated equivalent to car drivers.
Proves my post about some pilots... and why the majority get shafted before the argument can be pushed in any way.
Proves my post about some pilots... and why the majority get shafted before the argument can be pushed in any way.
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pilots are rated equivalent to car drivers
When have I (or anyone else) said that?
I say that if you can be trained to do one you can be trained to do the other - very different. You can learn to drive a car in 3 days (I took my test after a 3 day intensive course with a driving school - I failed though
) but it was only on one item, a mistake which equally I - or someone better - may not have made.No one, whether it is Chuck Yeager or Joe Bloggs, can physically complete an ATPL in anywhere like that time or with anywhere near as little work - it will be much more on both counts and much much more in some cases (all depends on the individual).
the majority get shafted before the argument can be pushed in any way
Even if you could convince management and the entire world that we are some sort of uber-Gods with special powers no-one will say great, have a pay rise - they will say great, are there any uber-Gods willing to work for less; and while there are the pay will not increase!
Last edited by Ropey Pilot; 10th Dec 2005 at 13:48.
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Ropey pilot- To be in charge of a plane takes more than
just coordination or good ATPL score.
I do not know what machine do you fly or how
many hours you do have,and what destinations
you go to??? but to me you sound very very inexperienced
and need lot to learn.
To be in charge of a jet worth more than 100 million
and the lives of 200+ passengers you need much
more than 1500 hrs. remember the pilot is the last
line of defence.
As for the main topic of this thread, I believe that
we deserve more, a good start is to stop
accepting jobs that pay less than the average market price,
and pilot unions should start talking.
Most of the airlines are short of pilots,to prove my
point 2 weeks ago I did apply to a couple of agencies,
I have till now 5 job offers,all want me to start immediately.
I think we should be paid by hour,and the 1000hrs increment
might be a good system,a 15000hrs capt would make 200usd
per hr,this amount is not much for somebody who is been
flying for more than 20 years.
just coordination or good ATPL score.
I do not know what machine do you fly or how
many hours you do have,and what destinations
you go to??? but to me you sound very very inexperienced
and need lot to learn.
To be in charge of a jet worth more than 100 million
and the lives of 200+ passengers you need much
more than 1500 hrs. remember the pilot is the last
line of defence.
As for the main topic of this thread, I believe that
we deserve more, a good start is to stop
accepting jobs that pay less than the average market price,
and pilot unions should start talking.
Most of the airlines are short of pilots,to prove my
point 2 weeks ago I did apply to a couple of agencies,
I have till now 5 job offers,all want me to start immediately.
I think we should be paid by hour,and the 1000hrs increment
might be a good system,a 15000hrs capt would make 200usd
per hr,this amount is not much for somebody who is been
flying for more than 20 years.
