British Airways DEP Selection - THE lowdown Part 1

[thegirlfriend]

do you know the BA Qantas link?

i was surfing with my partner and we found that BA get their testing done with SHL like Qantas and then came across LOC's great advice, anyone else used it for Qantas??

And how come BA will send out that Item Bank booklet but Qantas doesn't?!? That thing seems like it would be a real help especially getting it the day before.....i'm trying to obtain one.....legally ; )

[RealityChecks]

Does anyone know if the BA DEP intake is specifically for the position of First Officer or does BA recruit pilots for direct command . I am a heavy jet operator in the far east with more than 10k hours and am contemplating working in the U.K. Thanks

[The Greaser]

No direct entry commands, I'm afraid even if you have 30000 hours you will have to wait 20 years like the rest of us!

[RealityChecks]

Thanks "Greaser" . Could you please enlighten me as to the salary range for a first officer with BA ? I am seriously considering a move back to the U.K. for my childrens schooling and upbringing . The international schools out here are dodgy at best. Many thanks once again .

[The Greaser]

First year basic salary is about £42000, allowances will make this up to around £55000 so I am led to believe. Take home per month between 3000-3500.
Annual increments are about 2300pounds on Long Haul, so a year 10 Long Haul FO basic is 63000, year 20 is 86000, 24 is the top pay point and pays 95000 for FO. Add a third onto basic salary when (if) you make command.

See www.ppjn.com for further details.

Good Luck

[MAX]

Thomsonfly (aka Britannia) taking direct entry commands if you want to earn more cash and want to see the left hand before you die. Also still offering final salary pension.

MAX

[MR777]

Well thank you PPrune for your recent information. I have finally been successful in my application to BA and I have an Airbus course starting in a few months. I thought it only fare that I give you my personal view on the selection procedure. I hasten to add these are MY OWN PERSONAL views, you may like them, and you may disagree with them. Either way I am telling it as I found it!

1. Firstly you have to really want this job! I spent 6 months preparing for it, yes I know there are smart people out there who can turn up after a heavy night out and pull it out of the bag, but I am just not one of those types.

How to prepare.

1. Maths…

The tests are reasonably simple. If you know your times tables you are home and dry. I went to a rough school, so spent the last 6 months at FL370 learning them. For the tests you need to do basic addition, subtraction, multiplication and the odd Division. Do not spend weeks learning long division, algebra etc etc… You do not need it! One of the questions I remembered was… A truck has 2500 brick on it, if you order 6 trucks how many bricks will ye get???…. Get the picture… Yes they do get harder… Know your times tables and you are home and dry!!

2. Verbal Reasoning…

Well I scraped a ‘C’ at English in GCSE so these were a tad tricky for me. I found myself ripping my hair out trying to come to grips with them and on the day they were awful. I think I did maybe 37 out of 55 ? The only thing I can suggest and believe me I have been everywhere to find someone that would sell me some that fell off the back of an SHL lorry and it is impossible… Use Andrea Shanvicks Book. The tests in there are SHL, It has just been updated and will give you a flavour of what ye are about to hit. Unfortunately none on the day I had were in the book and I found them painfully hard. The ISBN is 1-84528-020-2 I bought it from Amazon and arrived the next day.

3. Lastly

Anyone who is serious about getting there dream job, whether it is BA, Virgin, Cathay, Emirates…… There is only one way to prepare and that is go and visit Penny Austin the Recruitment tutor. I spent a whole day with her and without it I doubt I would have got in. She was just superb, do not turn up if you don’t like criticism, someone delving deep, and getting personal! If you want a job… you have to see her, and was the best money I have ever spent!! Well almost, that weekend in AMS in 98 was very good!! Visit her website www.pennyaustin.btinternet.co.uk

I also Used a CD that I bought from EBAY It is called THE TIMES PSYCHOMETRIC TESTS VOLUME ONE. Try visiting the www.times.co.uk to buy a copy. Basically it has hundreds of maths and verbal tests on it. You pick a time limit and it just keeps throwing the questions at you. Some of the maths is a little overboard, and some of the Verbal tests are Harder and Easier that ye will see at BA. But it gets your mind back in the Groove for the wonderful day.

THE DAY

Well I certainly recommend staying at the Jurys in LHR the night before… Why??? Lots of reasons, you can walk to Cranebank in 5 mins, you can walk to Hatton cross station in 5 mins. It is brand new and not grubby like all of the hotels on the bath road. I got an Internet special of £29 Bargain visit www.jurysdoyle.com you have to pay to park the car, but virtually every other hotel at LHR does to.

Well Palms sweating and ready to go…. I believe the day can go a lot better if you have a nice group. There were 12 of us on my day, we all had type ratings and experience was from ATR72 to 757…. Firstly we were taken into a room and shot….. Only Joking!! We had a lovely friendly BA welcome asking us to relax, ‘’we have loads of Jobs and want to take you all…. ‘‘We just want to find out if you are the right kind of person for BA’’

We were all then given a schedule of what we would be doing for the rest of the day

1.The group exercise.. It went like a dream… Definitely a fine bunch of Ppruners there that day… Our exercise was the Caribbean route problem, someone has covered it before so I don't intend to do it again. It has all been said before what happens but the outcome will depend on your group. We had all average people… I.E. No loud mouths… No hermit crabs, everyone said a bit, then complemented someone else’s view and let someone else chip in a bit. That is what you have to be…. Speak up, then blend into the crowd!! We did so well… we were so Happy with our decisions and planning that we were ready 3 mins early!! All looking at each other blankly we quickly went back and just polished the edges so we did not have to sit in silence.

2. The Interview… Well not as bad as I thought and they made me feel very welcome indeed. 1 pilot and someone from HR, have 25 mins each to chat while the other frantically scribbles everything that you say!!! I think they have key areas to cover. The pilot had a sheet with what looked like Key Competences on it, that he had to cover before he handed you over to the HR grilling. All experience based… I.E. give me an example of Blah.. They have all been done before on Pprune so will not go over again. What I will say is do not just go over the list on Pprune. They can ask the same question a thousand different ways.. So do not expect to have all the answers in your head of what you can say. I had written maybe a hundred questions and answers and I got caught on the day having to pull something out of my wooly brain. What I would say to BA is they did not leave me stewing… they helped me along with the question. For example… If they said give me an example of a time when Blah happened… and you sit quietly waiting for the ground to swallow you up… They said to me ‘’well in the context of’’ Phew know what ye are trying to get at now!! Why did ye not just say that in the first place!!

3.Tests … Covered before and above

4. Pilot Aptitude Tests….. Most have been covered before! I tried speaking to the company that designed the software to see if I could visit for a play… Or pay to be tested privately!! Needless to say they did not want to know! You will come out feeling as thought you have been pulled through a block of flats at warp factor nine! I had trouble remembering my own mane after the session. The test I found really tricky and I know I did bad because I only got 1-10 on 2 of the tests… it was the Radar screen. I thought I had lost it because I found it awful.. If you want to prepare get a sheet of A4 paper draw 5 rings going from 10-50 miles and the cardinal points on it. Then write out loads of instructions on your PC, print them and put in a bag.. Like NORTH 20. Then pull one our remember it, put it aside, do this 3 more times … Now put your finger on the piece of paper and tell me where the runway should be?? I said to myself that evening that it would have been my downfall if I did not get in, and devised how I would solve it for next time!! Luckily I don’t have to !! You are probably thinking this looks all a bit like hassle… But if you are a bit of a Muppet like me and want your dream job…. Someone is not gonna come knocking on the door and hand it to you! If you don’t work for it… there will always be someone else who has put more effort in and will get it!

Sim

Mainly been covered before. Practice getting your scan back. I would recommend you hire a basic NAV trainer like a Seneca sim with all clockwork instruments. The problem I found with flying an EFIS aircraft with a glass telly, firstly you have trained yourself to get all your brain to get most of its info from this and you loose your scan. If you have the scan back you can unload your brain from flying the aircraft and get on with the lovely CRM and situation you are about to be thrown into!!

Basically it changes everyday… Our trainer said forget what you read on PPRUNE! I don’t even know what you are going to be doing yet… So Pprune won’t help ye today. The trainer was superb… really friendly… very helpful and just wanted to see how we acted in a scenario flying with someone you have never met before. It really does depend on who your partner was. I had a captain who flew the same aircraft as me but for a different airline! We got on superbly and both got in. Apart from trying to get your scan back, reading the previous posts on the sim and being good at Working with someone new, I don’t know what to suggest!

Forgot to say…. There were 2 words missing from the BAC 1-11 sales brochure published in the 1960’s, they were… Comfort and Ergonomic… A great aircraft though it was, the 1-11 was fitted with neither!!

Hope This helps Chaps… and of course Chapesses!!

Remember

1. Learn times tables
2. Get Andrea Shanvicks Book
3. Vists Penny Austin
4. Get Times CD
5. Hire a Basic sim trainer to get your IFR scan back and unload that Brain!

The BA selection though Hard and Tough, they make you feel very welcome an relaxed and once you turn up for the testing, they genuinely want you to succeed!

[toomuchradiations]

....i know this question has been already asked but no-one replied....so may i ask again whether u think it's better to have an MCC rating and/or JOT rating before going for the Sim Check on the BAC 1-11??.....i have been asked to call BA as soon as i get my IR done.....will they take into account that i don't have any two pilot operation experience??...or would u suggest to get the MCC and / or JOT beforehand?


another question: do they actually pair you with another candidate for the sim check??..i thought the examiner would seat nearby you

another question(!): do we have to do other aptitude tests like the computer based tests we did on day one??...or are they different....or they are just a legend??!!


many thanks!! and enjoy this summer!!

[mr ripley]

toomuchradiations questions

..whether u think it's better to have an MCC rating and/or JOT rating before going for the Sim Check?

I think it would be of help to have a MCC. Can I presume you are applying from a mil non ME background?

..do they actually pair you with another candidate for the sim check?

Yes. One of you flies one leg and the other flies the return. However you are assessed as both handling and non-handling. The assessor sit behind and operates the sim.

..do we have to do other aptitude tests like the computer based tests we did on day one?

No. I believe that there may have been a some tests at one time but I didn't do any in April and no one I know has done any. I believe that when BA were introducing some new tests, they asked candidates to complete them on the Sim assess day to compare.

Good luck.

[toomuchradiations]

Thanks very much Mr. Ripley!!.....(i actually come from an ab initio atpl course..)

[Fatter Cat]

Just been invited to re-apply by post.

Does anyone know if the interview / tests are the same or is it any different second time around?

[Dozza2k]

too much radiations:

actually the SSP sim ride is a little different!

I did mine 3 days after passing my IR, got a phone call whilst in sainsbury's asking me to be in the next day. so i wasn't MCC and had zero jet time.

You are on your own, its single pilot with a few MCC 'moments' thrown in if you ask for it, but for me and mates of mine it sometimes comes down to the examinar. He sits in the right hand seat, you in the left and can finely tune N1's when you are on finals and ID beacons etc.

they took into account that i'd never touched a jet ever before. they let you have 15 mins of playtime first as well just so its not all completely new.

an advantage for you is that once you have the IR, doing it close after will mean that your scan is Sh*t hot, and the main instruments are pretty similar to seneca's so not much adjusting of the old scan needed.

a little tip, the 1-11 doesn't like to slow down.....ever. I just came off seneca II's which behaved in the opposite manner! If i remember right, i intercepted the glidepath at 170kts, it was a challenge to stabalise that 1!
good luck

d2k

[BigGrecian]

What's your training background Dozza2k? Would be good to share with other peole and whether you applied beforehand or only applied after passing the IR.
Let us know how it went when you get the results.

[Dozza2k]

I started an integrated course in early 04, and went for interview day prior to doing the IR. Sim check just after the IR.
269hrs total
I didn't really apply, I was just one of many who went for interview from my FTO when requested to.

[P-T-Gamekeeper]

Just a couple of updates on DEP recruitment, as of 2 weeks ago.

1. There is plenty of parking at Cranebank in the multi-storey car park, but allow time for M25/M4 traffic. I wouldn't drive unless you are fairly local, as it is an early start, and the stress of sitting in a traffic jam just isn't worth it.

2. We were told there are 45 places left for this FY (courses from Jan-Mar) and 80 places for next FY. After that is uncertain, due to retirement age uncertainty.

3. Localisers comments are still spot on. I found the day well organised by pleasant people, who tried very hard to put you at ease.

4. You are allowed to go to the canteen to get sandwiches, and then there is an informal chat with some fleet pilots. They stress it is NOT assessed, and our session was quite open and frank, from both sides.

5. You will only hear by phone that evening if you have a sim slot the next day. I had the call 2 days later. I have friends who received the call up to 2 1/2 weeks later.


All things considered, it was an enjoyable(?) and fair assessment day. If you do your research and prepare yourself, there are plenty of jobs to go round

P.S Mods, is this the right forum for DEP selection, as by necessity we are all experienced job hunters?

[scroggs]

No, it's not! But quite a lot of the early discussion related to those 250-hour pilots who were being picked up by BA for direct entry, so we let it ride. I think it's probably now a good time to move it to 'Terms and Endearment'.

Scroggs

[Hot Wings]

P-T-Gamekeeper - sadly, there is rarely much evidence of any preparation! If you apply for the job, at least put a bit of effort into it, otherwise it is a 12 month wait and a 100+ places further down the seniority list. It is unfortunate that some good people have lost out because they haven't practised their times tables, or bothered to look at the BA website (CEO's name, T5, operating margin/ profits, share price, etc...) or this thread.

To put it bluntly - don't think that BA owe you a job just because you've got an ATPL. However, if you've done your homework, there is a job for you!

[Tibesti 3415]

Times tables

What do you mean about practising time tables ???


Sorry guys and girls I am missing something here.

Going for the interview soon.

[davecr]

As in.. 2x2=4. They don't expect you to know the complete flight schedule

[prob30]

Could anyone expand on the sim part of the assesment? Prepartion, airfields etc etc.

ps excellent thread big thanks to everyone who has contributed. It makes the whole preocess less daunting!