People Leaving Ezy For Greener Pastures.
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I am cautiously optimistic that EZY upper management is listening to the main lifestyle issues that are being raised repeatedly on this thread and others.
Staff travel availability seems to get a bit better. This alone will prove a huge cost saving to the company. Why?
As flight and cabin crew can commute again to their work without spending their half their salary their desire to stay with easyJet will be greatly influenced. Retention, retention, retention!!!!
Ray, you will be a wise CEO if you keep your workers happy!
The second issue, work rosters, should really not be difficult to solve. I have spoken to guys who are on 75% or 50% rosters and they consistently have had higher productivity in terms of hours flown vs days worked. This simply means that by giving people more time off to properly rest and have a life (...) beyond flying, the company will get the same or even more productivity out of the work force. Sickness levels will probably go down aswell as fatique is a main cause for the body to become ill.
Upper management, I hope you will not only look at cost alone when entering the pay and conditions negotiations but instead look at return on investment !!
Retaining 40 more pilots and 100 more cabin crew this year due to keeping them happy with good staff travel and a good life style will save the company a huge sum of money!!
Going to a 5 on, 3 off or even 5 on, 4 off will only have a positive effect on the bottom line and more importantly, safety!!! as well.
Staff travel availability seems to get a bit better. This alone will prove a huge cost saving to the company. Why?
As flight and cabin crew can commute again to their work without spending their half their salary their desire to stay with easyJet will be greatly influenced. Retention, retention, retention!!!!
Ray, you will be a wise CEO if you keep your workers happy!
The second issue, work rosters, should really not be difficult to solve. I have spoken to guys who are on 75% or 50% rosters and they consistently have had higher productivity in terms of hours flown vs days worked. This simply means that by giving people more time off to properly rest and have a life (...) beyond flying, the company will get the same or even more productivity out of the work force. Sickness levels will probably go down aswell as fatique is a main cause for the body to become ill.
Upper management, I hope you will not only look at cost alone when entering the pay and conditions negotiations but instead look at return on investment !!
Retaining 40 more pilots and 100 more cabin crew this year due to keeping them happy with good staff travel and a good life style will save the company a huge sum of money!!
Going to a 5 on, 3 off or even 5 on, 4 off will only have a positive effect on the bottom line and more importantly, safety!!! as well.
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It seems a shame that when easy swallowed Go they didnt adopt the £25 return, anywhere on the network standby ticket that Go staff had.
That was a staff travel system that covered the airport tax but was still cheap enough for staff to go on a day trip a few times a month....
oh well, times change!
"Go, the happy airline turned sad by easyjet!"
That was a staff travel system that covered the airport tax but was still cheap enough for staff to go on a day trip a few times a month....
oh well, times change!
"Go, the happy airline turned sad by easyjet!"
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"glider insider"
best of both we were told. Go had a lot of good things to bring to EJ, sadly they were binned. At least you got to enjoy Go's Staff travel while you had it.. Get it back? Fat chance
Swept wing, look over our history, things don't change quickly.
Remember it was
B A L P A who sold us this crap deal last year.
best of both we were told. Go had a lot of good things to bring to EJ, sadly they were binned. At least you got to enjoy Go's Staff travel while you had it.. Get it back? Fat chance
Swept wing, look over our history, things don't change quickly.
Remember it was
B A L P A who sold us this crap deal last year.
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Stan Woolley,
Well said. Indeed Easyjet's problems are just beginning and their contemptuous attitude and no desire to change is clear from the the recent post by the chief pilot, shattering all hopes of a 5/3 roster.
We are firmly locked in the 6/3 pattern for the forseeable future. Every excuse to carry on this way is lame and life style issue will not be addressed and we continue to be run by computers.
The reason given is that an immediate dispensation from CAA to adapt the 5/3 pattern to suit easy's style i.e work us to near death, is not possible at this time and even when eventually considered, will have to undergo a lenghty trial period. This to me is rubbish and the 5/3 pattern should not be about being able to work us to maximum duty limitswith min. rests for five consecutive days only to need the 3 days to recover (in hospital)
It is a lifestyle and respect for the profession issue.
It is the duty of every pilot to win back respectability for this profession and not be whimps as we have been so far.
We await BALPA's take on this.
Working at Easyjet has been a bed of mature roses with wild thorns.
Don't hold your breath, Easy Management (who are they anyway ? ) I only need to know which of these numerous managers I send my definite resignation, the sweet thought of which is already sending me to climax.
Very UNEASY
Well said. Indeed Easyjet's problems are just beginning and their contemptuous attitude and no desire to change is clear from the the recent post by the chief pilot, shattering all hopes of a 5/3 roster.
We are firmly locked in the 6/3 pattern for the forseeable future. Every excuse to carry on this way is lame and life style issue will not be addressed and we continue to be run by computers.
The reason given is that an immediate dispensation from CAA to adapt the 5/3 pattern to suit easy's style i.e work us to near death, is not possible at this time and even when eventually considered, will have to undergo a lenghty trial period. This to me is rubbish and the 5/3 pattern should not be about being able to work us to maximum duty limitswith min. rests for five consecutive days only to need the 3 days to recover (in hospital)
It is a lifestyle and respect for the profession issue.
It is the duty of every pilot to win back respectability for this profession and not be whimps as we have been so far.
We await BALPA's take on this.
Working at Easyjet has been a bed of mature roses with wild thorns.
Don't hold your breath, Easy Management (who are they anyway ? ) I only need to know which of these numerous managers I send my definite resignation, the sweet thought of which is already sending me to climax.
Very UNEASY
Last edited by UNEASY; 9th Mar 2004 at 04:18.
Grim Sleeper
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Get real easyprison (and the many others like you in EZY!!)
What deal do you think we'd have got without Balpa????
The company was gunning for a pay CUT. That was after posting record profits in 2002.
I gather from your expletive-laden post you have now left Balpa, (if you were even a member of course). Your attitude stinks. You can sit there doing f-all for our T&Cs (apart from whingeing), and then when the deal isn't to your liking you blame Balpa (and not EZY management). Well If your not supporting those who are working for your long-term welfare, just bend over and take it up the ass from the company without crying about it.
This year the company wants free rostering. Those of us who remember it (7 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off, 1 on etc etc etc) or anyone with half a brain who knows what they do to us in Dec and Jan will know that the hard work going into the negotiations this year are FOR OUR BENEFIT (yes, all of us, including fence-sitting, whingeing ******s like you, mate) and it's the brothers who are paying for it. And it'll be us going on strike if it comes down to it - won't see you on the picket lines, will we? Cos the company will sack your ass the minute you try it. So you will have to keep propping up the corrupt orange empire and taking your 30 pieces of silver while we go unpaid trying to get YOU a better life.
Sorry to single you out for this easyprison as there are still a hardcore of fencesitters in EZY, but if your not going to put your money where your mouth is to get us a better deal, leave Balpa out of it and keep your whining directed where it should be going - Mr Self-styled Hardass Webster.
What deal do you think we'd have got without Balpa????
The company was gunning for a pay CUT. That was after posting record profits in 2002.
I gather from your expletive-laden post you have now left Balpa, (if you were even a member of course). Your attitude stinks. You can sit there doing f-all for our T&Cs (apart from whingeing), and then when the deal isn't to your liking you blame Balpa (and not EZY management). Well If your not supporting those who are working for your long-term welfare, just bend over and take it up the ass from the company without crying about it.
This year the company wants free rostering. Those of us who remember it (7 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off, 1 on etc etc etc) or anyone with half a brain who knows what they do to us in Dec and Jan will know that the hard work going into the negotiations this year are FOR OUR BENEFIT (yes, all of us, including fence-sitting, whingeing ******s like you, mate) and it's the brothers who are paying for it. And it'll be us going on strike if it comes down to it - won't see you on the picket lines, will we? Cos the company will sack your ass the minute you try it. So you will have to keep propping up the corrupt orange empire and taking your 30 pieces of silver while we go unpaid trying to get YOU a better life.
Sorry to single you out for this easyprison as there are still a hardcore of fencesitters in EZY, but if your not going to put your money where your mouth is to get us a better deal, leave Balpa out of it and keep your whining directed where it should be going - Mr Self-styled Hardass Webster.
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easyprison
What did you expect BALPA to achieve with the 50% membership it had during those negotiations last year. It just wasn't a strong enough mandate to secure the deal that we wanted. Yet it was still a lot better than the initial management offer.
Just look at the deal secured by BALPA for Virgin. Absolutely fantastic. And why do you think that was? Huh? Virgin management feeling generous? No! It was brought about by strong BALPA representation. I heard over 90% membership. That is the only way to achieve anything in our situation. Be strong and credible. And it seems the message is now geting through - recuitment is doing well, but we still need more.
Unless, of course, you know of another way to achieve decent rostering? Go on, tell us, we're dying to hear it - how can us lot stumping up our dues get a better deal any other way?
What did you expect BALPA to achieve with the 50% membership it had during those negotiations last year. It just wasn't a strong enough mandate to secure the deal that we wanted. Yet it was still a lot better than the initial management offer.
Just look at the deal secured by BALPA for Virgin. Absolutely fantastic. And why do you think that was? Huh? Virgin management feeling generous? No! It was brought about by strong BALPA representation. I heard over 90% membership. That is the only way to achieve anything in our situation. Be strong and credible. And it seems the message is now geting through - recuitment is doing well, but we still need more.
Unless, of course, you know of another way to achieve decent rostering? Go on, tell us, we're dying to hear it - how can us lot stumping up our dues get a better deal any other way?
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SLIM20,
Your attitude stinks by your unchecked attack on easyprison.
The man is entitled to his opinion and right to to persuade others to his leaning.
You may be one with total confidence in BALPA but allow others to differ.
Anyway if it came to the crunch, with all the mouth you have, we will find people like you on the picket line alright, but with a mask on.
Your attitude stinks by your unchecked attack on easyprison.
The man is entitled to his opinion and right to to persuade others to his leaning.
You may be one with total confidence in BALPA but allow others to differ.
Anyway if it came to the crunch, with all the mouth you have, we will find people like you on the picket line alright, but with a mask on.
Grim Sleeper
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Whoa there Uneasy!
For one, I did actually apologise in my post for attacking easyprison as he was the unfortunate focus of my invective. He is merely representative of the many people left in EZY who moan but remain inactive (preciesely the people you bemoan in your earlier post)
The reason I came across strongly was that he seems to blame the intervention (or non-intervention) of Balpa for the current poor state of affairs. To do so is to miss the point entirely.
It is hardly the trade union's fault that we are made to work like this. It was poor representation among the rank and file that led to a poor compromise being accepted; without a union we would not even have had a compromise.
I am sorry that this kind of argument is precisely what EZY wants - a conflict between its staff on the issue of union representation, even while that union is working for all of us, members or not.
So easyprison - I unreservedly apologise for the nature of my comments. I would much rather stand shoulder to shoulder with you, union or not, in our fight for proper treatment, and not antagonise you.
Sorry!
For one, I did actually apologise in my post for attacking easyprison as he was the unfortunate focus of my invective. He is merely representative of the many people left in EZY who moan but remain inactive (preciesely the people you bemoan in your earlier post)
The reason I came across strongly was that he seems to blame the intervention (or non-intervention) of Balpa for the current poor state of affairs. To do so is to miss the point entirely.
It is hardly the trade union's fault that we are made to work like this. It was poor representation among the rank and file that led to a poor compromise being accepted; without a union we would not even have had a compromise.
I am sorry that this kind of argument is precisely what EZY wants - a conflict between its staff on the issue of union representation, even while that union is working for all of us, members or not.
So easyprison - I unreservedly apologise for the nature of my comments. I would much rather stand shoulder to shoulder with you, union or not, in our fight for proper treatment, and not antagonise you.
Sorry!
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There is a real issue here. I am just about to start at easyJet and am not now a BALPA member (long story....). If I truly believed that BALPA could make a difference I would reluctantly rejoin and pay the very steep monthly payments required.
I do, however, have good reasons for believing that BALPA membership will never rise to the 70+% level required to be effective. The prime reason is that the ever-growing presence of large numbers of non-UK pilots working for easyJet guarantees that there will never be high membership. BALPA, as its name suggests, is there to represent the interests of British airline pilots. With so many non-UK pilots working for easyJet, how will BALPA ever be in a position to represent them? As easyJet's expansion into Europe rather than the UK continues, the preponderance of non-UK nationals can only increase. It is completely unrealistic to expect these guys and gals to join BALPA. It seems to me that BALPA will only get weaker at easyJet and not stronger as is clearly required. This is a genuine point and if someone can convince me otherwise I will look at rejoining. At this juncture, however, I truly believe the best interests of easyJet pilots would be served by a Pilots' Council which is truly representative of all pilots and not just the union members.
I am looking for a balanced and rational reply here folks - not some deranged or abusive pro/anti union rambling. Many thanks.
I do, however, have good reasons for believing that BALPA membership will never rise to the 70+% level required to be effective. The prime reason is that the ever-growing presence of large numbers of non-UK pilots working for easyJet guarantees that there will never be high membership. BALPA, as its name suggests, is there to represent the interests of British airline pilots. With so many non-UK pilots working for easyJet, how will BALPA ever be in a position to represent them? As easyJet's expansion into Europe rather than the UK continues, the preponderance of non-UK nationals can only increase. It is completely unrealistic to expect these guys and gals to join BALPA. It seems to me that BALPA will only get weaker at easyJet and not stronger as is clearly required. This is a genuine point and if someone can convince me otherwise I will look at rejoining. At this juncture, however, I truly believe the best interests of easyJet pilots would be served by a Pilots' Council which is truly representative of all pilots and not just the union members.
I am looking for a balanced and rational reply here folks - not some deranged or abusive pro/anti union rambling. Many thanks.
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How to represent pilots in a company operating in multiple countries is a very real one and a growing one. Out of interest are all easy pilots on UK contracts? If you are say Germany based in Berlin paying German Tax etc does British or German employment laws apply.
To me the problem with pilots councils is that they tend to work without any backup. Balpa or any other union worth the name will have a system to provided professional support (research, negotiators etc). Without support you end up as a group of talented and well-intentioned amateurs facing a well resorsed and professional management team.
To me the problem with pilots councils is that they tend to work without any backup. Balpa or any other union worth the name will have a system to provided professional support (research, negotiators etc). Without support you end up as a group of talented and well-intentioned amateurs facing a well resorsed and professional management team.
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UK Contracts, UK employment rules ergo you must be in UK union to get FULL cover and support.
Emerg cover alway available via the IFALPA banner but not FULL cover.
If I were working permanently overseas i wold join the local club.
It all hinges around which country your contract is issued in.
Emerg cover alway available via the IFALPA banner but not FULL cover.
If I were working permanently overseas i wold join the local club.
It all hinges around which country your contract is issued in.
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re-joined BALPA about a week ago.
Slim20, no worries. I don't sit on the fence so to speak, just seen it all before in ezy. This time we must get some sort of rostering deal in place. 5&3 and none of this start on earlies finish on lates business. No Flexi days. It's not much to ask really- is it?
Will be with you all.
Slim20, no worries. I don't sit on the fence so to speak, just seen it all before in ezy. This time we must get some sort of rostering deal in place. 5&3 and none of this start on earlies finish on lates business. No Flexi days. It's not much to ask really- is it?
Will be with you all.
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Banzai eagle......... wrong again, Normal 4 sector days at LHR are for 35 mins turnarounds if on the airbus at outstations and 45 mins at LHR a little longer if changing aircraft.
BLR section 10
Still I am reliably informed that the company will need some airbus rated pilots so come on in and enjoy the fun
BLR section 10
Still I am reliably informed that the company will need some airbus rated pilots so come on in and enjoy the fun
Last edited by Da Dog; 10th Mar 2004 at 20:21.
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Easyprison,
I take it you did read my thread.
From the chief pilot's recent letter, he has ruled out 5/3 for the time being never mind earlies and lates.
We are firmly stuck with 6/3 it seems, forever or until the obvious happens and then the regulatory bodies will suddenly realise they could have done something about it in the first place. Then a fall guy will be sort and better working conditions implemented overnight and everybody is happy again until another smart manager comes along in a few years and tightens the noose once again to justify his position .. e.t.c, e.t.c.
We have been reduced in this profession to just numbers and all this computer nerds just plug us in willy nilly.
We are so brainwashed that we even fear repercautions from accidents from flying and we therefore will do anything to ' cover our asses' ! and find this enough justification to join bodies such as BALPA e.t.c ( I am not implying that they are good for nothing, I am only addressing our inner fears), to have legal representation in case someone should be too quick to want to blame us.
Now I ask , why should that worry anybody whether he is blamed or not, after all if you were driving a company vehicle and had an accident and you are in the wrong, you do not feel the world is coming to an end.
WE ARE BRAINWASHED WHIMPS THAT HAVE ALLOWED RESPECT FOR OUR PROFESSION TO GRADUALLY ERODE.
Stand together and save this profession!
I take it you did read my thread.
From the chief pilot's recent letter, he has ruled out 5/3 for the time being never mind earlies and lates.
We are firmly stuck with 6/3 it seems, forever or until the obvious happens and then the regulatory bodies will suddenly realise they could have done something about it in the first place. Then a fall guy will be sort and better working conditions implemented overnight and everybody is happy again until another smart manager comes along in a few years and tightens the noose once again to justify his position .. e.t.c, e.t.c.
We have been reduced in this profession to just numbers and all this computer nerds just plug us in willy nilly.
We are so brainwashed that we even fear repercautions from accidents from flying and we therefore will do anything to ' cover our asses' ! and find this enough justification to join bodies such as BALPA e.t.c ( I am not implying that they are good for nothing, I am only addressing our inner fears), to have legal representation in case someone should be too quick to want to blame us.
Now I ask , why should that worry anybody whether he is blamed or not, after all if you were driving a company vehicle and had an accident and you are in the wrong, you do not feel the world is coming to an end.
WE ARE BRAINWASHED WHIMPS THAT HAVE ALLOWED RESPECT FOR OUR PROFESSION TO GRADUALLY ERODE.
Stand together and save this profession!
Last edited by UNEASY; 13th Mar 2004 at 23:21.
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Why would going to a 5/3 roster not be possible?
EZY presently does not have permission from the CAA to work us 5 earlies followed by 5 lates.
However, working 3 earlies/2 lates followed by 2 earlies/3 lates would certainly go a long way to reduce the fatique and improve the lifestyle.
At least we would have 3 days off (sort off) every 8 days instead of every 9 days.
Why is this not an option?
EZY presently does not have permission from the CAA to work us 5 earlies followed by 5 lates.
However, working 3 earlies/2 lates followed by 2 earlies/3 lates would certainly go a long way to reduce the fatique and improve the lifestyle.
At least we would have 3 days off (sort off) every 8 days instead of every 9 days.
Why is this not an option?
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Sorry .. I must be thick , have I missed something
A post above says that the (new) Chief Pilot states that authority from the CAA to work 5 on/3 off is not forthcoming.....sorry ,but do you need permission to work LESS than the current 6/3 (sometimes 7 on/2 off).
One thing is certain , you all appear to be unhappy with your current situation and from the comments above ,you sound tired and FRUSTRATED. Unless you work together, you will get nowhere. I would recommend Balpa, even for only 6 months/ 1 year perhaps.You can then speak from a position of strength. If you only get ONE EXTRA DAY PER MONTH OFF ..it MUST be worth the £50/ month subs and who knows.. you might get something a lot better
Perhaps I'm not so thick .... I left for a much better life style.
A post above says that the (new) Chief Pilot states that authority from the CAA to work 5 on/3 off is not forthcoming.....sorry ,but do you need permission to work LESS than the current 6/3 (sometimes 7 on/2 off).
One thing is certain , you all appear to be unhappy with your current situation and from the comments above ,you sound tired and FRUSTRATED. Unless you work together, you will get nowhere. I would recommend Balpa, even for only 6 months/ 1 year perhaps.You can then speak from a position of strength. If you only get ONE EXTRA DAY PER MONTH OFF ..it MUST be worth the £50/ month subs and who knows.. you might get something a lot better
Perhaps I'm not so thick .... I left for a much better life style.
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VSI
IT IS POSSIBLE! It's just that they don't get their pound of flesh that way. What, let pilots be at home, on their gargantuan salaries? The very idea!
Early starts, late finishes, 6 or 7 days a week. That makes the £10million Club sleep soundly in their beds at night.
Let's hope they don't get the wake up call from Hell on the breakfast time news one day.......
IT IS POSSIBLE! It's just that they don't get their pound of flesh that way. What, let pilots be at home, on their gargantuan salaries? The very idea!
Early starts, late finishes, 6 or 7 days a week. That makes the £10million Club sleep soundly in their beds at night.
Let's hope they don't get the wake up call from Hell on the breakfast time news one day.......
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Is easyJet genuinly committed to improving the working conditions for the crews or is the refusal to go to a 5/3 roster merely a negotiating tactic?
To limit the amount of flex (rest) days to 12 per year is no real improvement, this was already the case when they started the 6/3 roster.
To limit the amount of six-sector(!) days on a B737 to 2 consectutive days is quite a lame gesture. Any respectable airline with an eye on flight safety would ban this kind of 6 sectors a day slave labour. On sector six crews are just completely wasted.
Fortunately, jets nowadays are very reliable and rarely break down. I sincerely hope crews will never have a catastrophic failure on their sixth sector.....
If easyJet wants to become a career airline, they should let their hard working crews have a life besides flying.
A 5/3 roster would be a start in the right direction!
Even if 5 earlies in a row is not possible, let us do 3 earlies/ 2 lates or 2 earlies/ 3 lates instead. This will not affect the produtivity compared to 5 earlies followed by 5 lates.
To limit the amount of flex (rest) days to 12 per year is no real improvement, this was already the case when they started the 6/3 roster.
To limit the amount of six-sector(!) days on a B737 to 2 consectutive days is quite a lame gesture. Any respectable airline with an eye on flight safety would ban this kind of 6 sectors a day slave labour. On sector six crews are just completely wasted.
Fortunately, jets nowadays are very reliable and rarely break down. I sincerely hope crews will never have a catastrophic failure on their sixth sector.....
If easyJet wants to become a career airline, they should let their hard working crews have a life besides flying.
A 5/3 roster would be a start in the right direction!
Even if 5 earlies in a row is not possible, let us do 3 earlies/ 2 lates or 2 earlies/ 3 lates instead. This will not affect the produtivity compared to 5 earlies followed by 5 lates.