Smoking on the flight-deck
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sussex, England
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To FMC apprentice and VS: I cannot believe that you don't have the balls to put your ideas to management. What are they going to do, fire you?
I hope that when and if you end up in the left seat that you learn to act responsibly and effectively when trying to deal with a problem instead of gossopping around like old ladies sowing seeds that serve to undermine what the rest of us are trying to achieve in Ryanair. Grow up and approach your manager! They do listen and they do read pprune!
I hope that when and if you end up in the left seat that you learn to act responsibly and effectively when trying to deal with a problem instead of gossopping around like old ladies sowing seeds that serve to undermine what the rest of us are trying to achieve in Ryanair. Grow up and approach your manager! They do listen and they do read pprune!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 55
Posts: 2,832
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You MUST pass this info on guys - it's not acceptable to have to suffer someones elses cancer gas on the flightdeck
DSR 10 - I've never said this one to anyone on prune (although I've had my disagreements) but you are a Fu*kwit of the highest order. Other peoples smoke is VILE....
TRFwhatever - dubious health issues, you are a bit dim aren't you
Your lungs are designed for AIR, not 40 different types of cancer inducing sh1te.
Smoking on the flightdeck is NOT ACCEPTABLE. Wake up to the 21st century.
DSR 10 - I've never said this one to anyone on prune (although I've had my disagreements) but you are a Fu*kwit of the highest order. Other peoples smoke is VILE....
TRFwhatever - dubious health issues, you are a bit dim aren't you
Your lungs are designed for AIR, not 40 different types of cancer inducing sh1te.Smoking on the flightdeck is NOT ACCEPTABLE. Wake up to the 21st century.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jambo Buana! Your attitude is typical about what I hear from my friends in FR! It seems not to be an airline where people can safely raise issues of concern-- all the FO's I know there tell me that the best way to survive is to be invisible and I am sure that also goes for most Captains! One has only to look here on Pprune-- which major airline is not represented in the company forums? As far as I am aware there is no system in your airline to allow for anonymous discussion like that which occurs here?
In my company Flight Deck smoking died out years ago and I was surprised to read here that this is not the case at FR.
Assuming that you are management-- your tone suggests that- then now is the time to do something about it.
In my company Flight Deck smoking died out years ago and I was surprised to read here that this is not the case at FR.
Assuming that you are management-- your tone suggests that- then now is the time to do something about it.
I don't think I have heard so many holy rollers banging of on one thread since I discovered pprune. What a good and righteous bunch we have in aviation nowadays.
When I started my career in aviation everybody but everybody smoked on the flightdeck.
I have moved on from that and do not any longer allow smoking up front but I am just dreading the day when all these young clean holy rollers start trying to ban farting in the cockpit.
That will truly be the end.
When I started my career in aviation everybody but everybody smoked on the flightdeck.
I have moved on from that and do not any longer allow smoking up front but I am just dreading the day when all these young clean holy rollers start trying to ban farting in the cockpit.
That will truly be the end.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Queensland
Posts: 408
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The company thinks it liability will be reduced by renewing the no smoking instruction. Perhaps they think the liability can be passed on to non complying captains. Should those concerned be more carefully considering their position? They could be invalidating relevant insurance by not informing insurance company of this situation. Even this PPRuNe post could be part of the evidence that they should have reasonably known their instruction is ignored. Its a bit unlikely that offending captains have valid insurance if a F/O takes civil action. Could they be in a position where savings, house, car and retirement funds are at risk?
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Sussex, England
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lost Soul; I am not a manager, but I do believe that the Flight Crew Instruction raised by CP on the subject is evidence that they do listen. It is another matter if one, or some of our colleagues decides to ignore an instruction from the CP. I guess their remedial therapy will be starting shortly at the job centre.
As for my attitude, it is a can do positive attitude of someone who loves flying, gets on with his job and doesn't think twice to tell management that they can do something better. I have been here for more than 6 years and things only get better. We are no longer just a bunch of paddy's taxiing too fast and flying on the barbers pole. I just wish that some of our guy's had the balls to put their point across directly to a manager rather than whimper on here. That's all.
As for my attitude, it is a can do positive attitude of someone who loves flying, gets on with his job and doesn't think twice to tell management that they can do something better. I have been here for more than 6 years and things only get better. We are no longer just a bunch of paddy's taxiing too fast and flying on the barbers pole. I just wish that some of our guy's had the balls to put their point across directly to a manager rather than whimper on here. That's all.
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
fmc apprentice,
Some sad answers to your original enquiry,esp from Airbus girl.Etiquete is that the smoker should ask if its okay before lighting up.You are then quite at liberty to say "Rather you didnt."That should be the end of it.
When I started flying many moons ago,I can assure you that neither the Captain or FE asked my permission to smoke.I didnt feel the need to whinge but everyone's different I guess.Times have changed and in todays politically-correct flt deck,you sound like you will fit in very nicely.If you ever decide to leave that lovely sceptred isle and seek a career as an expat pilot,I would watch the remarks about those nasty "foreigners" though.
Some sad answers to your original enquiry,esp from Airbus girl.Etiquete is that the smoker should ask if its okay before lighting up.You are then quite at liberty to say "Rather you didnt."That should be the end of it.
When I started flying many moons ago,I can assure you that neither the Captain or FE asked my permission to smoke.I didnt feel the need to whinge but everyone's different I guess.Times have changed and in todays politically-correct flt deck,you sound like you will fit in very nicely.If you ever decide to leave that lovely sceptred isle and seek a career as an expat pilot,I would watch the remarks about those nasty "foreigners" though.
...the thin end thereof
Join Date: Jun 1998
Location: London
Posts: 269
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Rananim, when you started flying medicine had not even begun to appreciate the dangers of passive smoking. What you view as 'PC whinging' I, and most others here, view as the basic right of employees to work in a safe and smoke-free environment. How many junior F/Os do you think would have the balls to say 'Rather you didn't' to a senior Captain? It should be the end of it as you say, but is it in practice?
The claim that 'we all did it in the good old days, therefore it must be OK' is complete nonsense. You might as well say it is OK to fly an aircraft blind drunk. Some of the older generation think it's OK to drive home slaughtered on booze because it was previously tolerated. Doesn't mean it was safe.
I find it ludicrous that Ryanair allow this kind of behaviour, and I hope this thread will mean management their get off their backsides and impose and enforce a blanket ban, for all the reasons given earlier - to summarise:
- Health risks to non-smoking flight deck crew
- The unpleasant smell and smoke in the tiny cockpit environment
- The absence of basic CRM in airline Captains who should know better
- The serious fire risks, in a place where fires are at best very dangerous and at worst lethal for hundreds
- The utter hypocrisy of banning all pax from smoking while allowing crew to smoke
- Any pilot who cannot safely perform his duties without nicotine in his veins should not hold a Class 1 (or should I say any pilot who can't fly without taking drugs, since that is what we are talking about)
- Ryanair's risk of being dragged into a multi-million pound litigation over a passive smoking related disease, in which the evidence would have to show only that the illness was on the balance of probabilities caused by long term exposure to passive smoking at work.
Good luck fmc-apprentice, hope you find that this thread filters back to your bosses. It will, they all read this site. Your unwillingness to speak up in the company context is quite understandable as a junior F/O, so it is fortunate that you have been able to draw attention to this problem anonymously here. Before the internet, I guess these grievances were just not voiced.
Edit - just read the rest of the thread, looks like management have already acted
The claim that 'we all did it in the good old days, therefore it must be OK' is complete nonsense. You might as well say it is OK to fly an aircraft blind drunk. Some of the older generation think it's OK to drive home slaughtered on booze because it was previously tolerated. Doesn't mean it was safe.
I find it ludicrous that Ryanair allow this kind of behaviour, and I hope this thread will mean management their get off their backsides and impose and enforce a blanket ban, for all the reasons given earlier - to summarise:
- Health risks to non-smoking flight deck crew
- The unpleasant smell and smoke in the tiny cockpit environment
- The absence of basic CRM in airline Captains who should know better
- The serious fire risks, in a place where fires are at best very dangerous and at worst lethal for hundreds
- The utter hypocrisy of banning all pax from smoking while allowing crew to smoke
- Any pilot who cannot safely perform his duties without nicotine in his veins should not hold a Class 1 (or should I say any pilot who can't fly without taking drugs, since that is what we are talking about)
- Ryanair's risk of being dragged into a multi-million pound litigation over a passive smoking related disease, in which the evidence would have to show only that the illness was on the balance of probabilities caused by long term exposure to passive smoking at work.
Good luck fmc-apprentice, hope you find that this thread filters back to your bosses. It will, they all read this site. Your unwillingness to speak up in the company context is quite understandable as a junior F/O, so it is fortunate that you have been able to draw attention to this problem anonymously here. Before the internet, I guess these grievances were just not voiced.
Edit - just read the rest of the thread, looks like management have already acted
Last edited by Wedge; 21st Sep 2003 at 09:41.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Assuming that not only Ryanair management read these pages, but also other Ryanair employees, such as Captains and LAME's, how about giving some assistance to these guys.
Next time you find evidence of a smoker(s) having "done it" in the cockpit of an aircraft that you take over, why not make an entry in the Tech Log, eg, "Cockpit smells of cigarette smoke - please clean", or, "Ashtrays, side console, and floor covered in cigarette ash - request cleaning".
It worked here, for me
Next time you find evidence of a smoker(s) having "done it" in the cockpit of an aircraft that you take over, why not make an entry in the Tech Log, eg, "Cockpit smells of cigarette smoke - please clean", or, "Ashtrays, side console, and floor covered in cigarette ash - request cleaning".
It worked here, for me
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Belgium
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
One of the easiest solutions is to finish your trip with the smoker and on return to home, or better even on your layover, report sick. Make it very clear to the medical authorties that your sickness is related to smoke exposure. Also let the company now why you reported sick. You be surprised how quick your problems are solved.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North of the border
Age: 61
Posts: 74
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Smoking
Bite Me.
Your anti smoking tirades are bizarre.
If two people in an enclosed enviroment can't get along and work out who smokes and who doesn't, that's too bad.
We do not need a law to mandate behaviour.
When you restrict one persons freedom, you restrict ALL persons freedom.
That is finite.
Today, smoking is bad. Where do you draw the line?
PB
Your anti smoking tirades are bizarre.
If two people in an enclosed enviroment can't get along and work out who smokes and who doesn't, that's too bad.
We do not need a law to mandate behaviour.
When you restrict one persons freedom, you restrict ALL persons freedom.
That is finite.
Today, smoking is bad. Where do you draw the line?
PB
Join Date: Apr 2000
Posts: 179
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I’ve carried the following in my wallet on a business card sized piece of cardboard. It’s damn near got me into a few fights in bars in the past, although I find that if it’s done with humour – making sure everyone in the circle gets to see it by passing it to someone other than the offender first – it normally draws a few laughs while getting the message across.
I suffered captains who smoked, usually getting out of my seat and staying the forward galley whenever they lit up. However, I didn’t have the cojones of one colleague who unstrapped and stepped from his seat at 15,000’ on descent into Heathrow when his heavily addicted captain lit up. When the startled captain asked what he was doing, he told him he had the choice –do without the ciggie or continuing the approach and landing on his own.
In the days when smoking was still allowed, absolutely no smoking on MY flight deck was one of the sweeter points of being a captain. Many of my FOs went down the back to indulge their habit, stinking of smoke when they returned.
Cigarette smoke is the residue of your pleasure. It permeates the air and putrefies my hair and clothes, not to mention my lungs. This takes place without my consent. I have a pleasure also; I like a beer now and again. The residue from my pleasure is urine. With the greatest respect, wouldn’t you be just a little annoyed if I stood on a chair and pissed all over your clothes?
In the days when smoking was still allowed, absolutely no smoking on MY flight deck was one of the sweeter points of being a captain. Many of my FOs went down the back to indulge their habit, stinking of smoke when they returned.
Last edited by Fubaar; 21st Sep 2003 at 17:43.
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JB and Kaptin M-- you obviously have not had contact with pilots working for FR as I have. Anyone writing in the tech log for any reason other than a genuine engineering defect would be summoned to appear before the base captain and severely disciplined! As for taking sick leave when not actually at death's door? The same applies! From what I am told the reason nothing happens about the smoking problem is that it is seen as "whingeing" and the person complaining would just be told to shut up or get out! This is not your chummy old-fashioned airline of yore!
What I used to do, when the guy lit up, especially without seriously asking:
Stay relaxed.
Do everything according to the book.
Look out to your right window.
Open up the air outlet near your right knee (the 732, 733 etc. had one there) all the way.
Without even looking at him, point the airstream right in his face, so that he gets the ashes all over him or even blow the cig out of his face.
Act like you didn´t even notice he was smoking, should he start complaining...
or:
Go and take a pee every time he starts to smoke....
Stay relaxed.
Do everything according to the book.
Look out to your right window.
Open up the air outlet near your right knee (the 732, 733 etc. had one there) all the way.
Without even looking at him, point the airstream right in his face, so that he gets the ashes all over him or even blow the cig out of his face.
Act like you didn´t even notice he was smoking, should he start complaining...
or:
Go and take a pee every time he starts to smoke....
Join Date: May 2002
Location: In a nice house
Posts: 981
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Also, a word of warning. If the Company do get told that a Captain has been smoking and an investigation is carried out, beware - I was in this situation (Captain reported by junior Cabin Crew member (and later sacked)) - and I got summoned to HQ. They then tried to implicate me, asking me why I hadn't reported him smoking!!!! So be ready....
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 102
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
These days it's so much easyer to alienate a smoker than it used to be in the past.
My advice is this - If you don't want to get your name involved, then just write to management anonymously, explaning the problem and that you obviously want to protect your identity.
Alternatively, canvass some other FO's and go to management with a number of you signing a letter.
This must be stopped!
My advice is this - If you don't want to get your name involved, then just write to management anonymously, explaning the problem and that you obviously want to protect your identity.
Alternatively, canvass some other FO's and go to management with a number of you signing a letter.
This must be stopped!
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: LEBL
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am currently a smoker. Years ago i received an envelope full of ashes and butts from my chief pilot. Back then, i was told to CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELF...and i learned the lesson.
Since then if my co-pilot is a non-smoker, I simply don´t smoke.
The scare fotos are out of place. We smoker/flyers are well aware of what damage we do by inhaling, and well aware of how irritating it surely is to you non-smokers.
But how about a look at the manufacturers;the governments that count on the taxes,the smoke/alcohol culture so cleverly let-off the hook...
I as a smoker, choose to smoke.
I as a smoker choose to give the non-smoker preference.
Very simple, but you radicals shouldn´t have it all your way either!
Since then if my co-pilot is a non-smoker, I simply don´t smoke.
The scare fotos are out of place. We smoker/flyers are well aware of what damage we do by inhaling, and well aware of how irritating it surely is to you non-smokers.
But how about a look at the manufacturers;the governments that count on the taxes,the smoke/alcohol culture so cleverly let-off the hook...
I as a smoker, choose to smoke.
I as a smoker choose to give the non-smoker preference.
Very simple, but you radicals shouldn´t have it all your way either!