Smoking on the flight-deck
PPRuNe's Paramedic
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mmmm thinks back over all those "a couple-a-smokes wont kill me folks"
one by one I watched em die... and they never went fast. The lucky ones have emphasema or had a stroke... if you call it lucky.
The modern cigarette is a stick full of chemicals, a far cry from the tobacco of old. Given the increasing number of areas were being closed to smokers, even my paramedic friends are giving up... not for their health, but for the lack of places to smoke.
The bigger worry I see is alcohol. That stuff in abnormal quantities is a death trap, and again, hard to give up once addicted and the results of a drinking binge and driving home are often fatal. There are many social indescretions also arising from overconsumption. but I digress....
I think "fine", if a person wants to smoke, as long as they show consideration for those around them. boozing and killing someone is unforgivable.
I have the feeling that given enough pressure, the cockpit inhabitants of the aforementioned airline will suffer lungfuls of smoke unless they recruit outside help. One person used to send a chest xray to his company after he had a chat to his doctor. Each xray would come up relatively clean. There came a time when a massive chest infection left his lungs filled with matter which showed up during the xray. The company was pertinant enough to get the hint and banned smoking, as the doctors report stated - male nonsmoker with bronchial lesions possibly precancerous query due to secondary smoking in workplace environment. Very brave of both of them.
one by one I watched em die... and they never went fast. The lucky ones have emphasema or had a stroke... if you call it lucky.
The modern cigarette is a stick full of chemicals, a far cry from the tobacco of old. Given the increasing number of areas were being closed to smokers, even my paramedic friends are giving up... not for their health, but for the lack of places to smoke.
The bigger worry I see is alcohol. That stuff in abnormal quantities is a death trap, and again, hard to give up once addicted and the results of a drinking binge and driving home are often fatal. There are many social indescretions also arising from overconsumption. but I digress....
I think "fine", if a person wants to smoke, as long as they show consideration for those around them. boozing and killing someone is unforgivable.
I have the feeling that given enough pressure, the cockpit inhabitants of the aforementioned airline will suffer lungfuls of smoke unless they recruit outside help. One person used to send a chest xray to his company after he had a chat to his doctor. Each xray would come up relatively clean. There came a time when a massive chest infection left his lungs filled with matter which showed up during the xray. The company was pertinant enough to get the hint and banned smoking, as the doctors report stated - male nonsmoker with bronchial lesions possibly precancerous query due to secondary smoking in workplace environment. Very brave of both of them.
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Kick up a stink...!
Why not play them at their own game. While they are smoking open up a box of the smelliest Egg and Fish sarnies (or whatever concuction) you can.
Or while you alone..sneak a smoke alarm on!
(Very childish I know and not very constructive but I hope you get it resolved soon!)
Or while you alone..sneak a smoke alarm on!
(Very childish I know and not very constructive but I hope you get it resolved soon!)
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Going by the amount of ash I see overflowing from the officially unused ashtray on the left side of the 738 cockpits for that certain Irish airline, there is either a small number of chain smokers amongst the Captains or a few VERY heavy smokers!! In this day and age I find it unbelievable that a Captain could be so selfish ( and addicted) that he or she would inflict this habit on an unwilling copilot. For those of you not familiar with Mr Boeing's best selling aircraft-- the cockpit is the size of a small broom cupboard! Since seeing this thread I have asked quite a few of the copilots and it seems that we have quite a number of extremely selfish Captains-- even including some training Captains who should know better!
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Great news-- FR management must read this! A new notice has just come out making all Ryanair aircraft rigidly NO-SMOKING areas. This will of course also mean no more "quick fags" on the turnrounds for cabin crew either. Perhaps time to buy those patches?
Apart from the obvious health risks/issues what about the FIRE risk caused by smoking on the flight deck, not to mention the distraction if a cigarette gets dropped on the floor etc?
I find it most disappointing that this should be raised as an issue after all the CRM training that is now prominent.
Captains who insist on smoking on the flight deck should NOT be Captains!!
The issue of FOs being afraid to make an issue of this matter through fear of reprisals etc is far more serious that the issue of smoking on the flight deck and speaks volumes about the manner in which operations are conducted, in my opinion.
In short, a serious flight safety issue which needs dealing with at the highest level.
I find it most disappointing that this should be raised as an issue after all the CRM training that is now prominent.
Captains who insist on smoking on the flight deck should NOT be Captains!!
The issue of FOs being afraid to make an issue of this matter through fear of reprisals etc is far more serious that the issue of smoking on the flight deck and speaks volumes about the manner in which operations are conducted, in my opinion.
In short, a serious flight safety issue which needs dealing with at the highest level.
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This is quite a difficult situation.
I'm actually quite shocked at the ignorance and arrogance of those involved.
If you protest in flight and feel you are treated differently as a result, you could make a submission to CHIRP. Hopefully the offenders would read the article and realise how much of a **** they had been.
I'm actually quite shocked at the ignorance and arrogance of those involved.
If you protest in flight and feel you are treated differently as a result, you could make a submission to CHIRP. Hopefully the offenders would read the article and realise how much of a **** they had been.
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Has prune been targeted by the anti smoking lobby. What a load of crap has been posted.
Fire risk zilch.
Passive smoking zilch according to latest research.
No smoking means lower cleaning bill and a/c filter changes.
Easy enough to schedule two smokers on the flight deck
Fire risk zilch.
Passive smoking zilch according to latest research.
No smoking means lower cleaning bill and a/c filter changes.
Easy enough to schedule two smokers on the flight deck
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Latest statistics also show that lung cancer is the most common type of cancer among European men. That ridiculous "survey" that purported to state that passive smoking was not detrimental to non-smokers was sponsored by the cigarette industry! I think it will not be long until addiction to tobacco will prevent one from holding a Class 1 medical! Ireland is about to ban all smoking in public places and it now seems that Ryanair has decided to extend this to their aircraft-- Great news!
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For me It still comes back to the lack of CRM... cockpit gradient etc. FOs should have the balls to stand up to these captains and Captains should be nothing other than plain bloody CIVIL! Chatting to smoker friends, even they say smoke in confined areas is hard to swallow
Eyes affected, Sinus problems etc. All this from people who are used to the Drug... I can only sympathise with these FOs. But in all honesty... Brutally honest here... Stand up to them, winging on this page is not where your fight should start. If you're not head strong enough to simply ask someone to refrain from smoking, which is polite and sensible, Then go fly single pilot ops...
Power went to my head then...
Maybe just a chat on the ground would suffice?
Good Luck with it all...
Ps I am on your side honest!!
Eyes affected, Sinus problems etc. All this from people who are used to the Drug... I can only sympathise with these FOs. But in all honesty... Brutally honest here... Stand up to them, winging on this page is not where your fight should start. If you're not head strong enough to simply ask someone to refrain from smoking, which is polite and sensible, Then go fly single pilot ops...Power went to my head then...
Maybe just a chat on the ground would suffice?
Good Luck with it all...
Ps I am on your side honest!!
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fmc_apprentice, I SO understand and empathize with you. I myself have just started my career as FO and some of the captains smoke too! 
Usually, when they ask me if I mind (obviously expecting a "no"-answer), I reply, "One, here and there won't bother me", kind of implying that I DO mind the smoking but at the same time I am tolerant of one or too. When I get home my hair and clothes are stinking of smoke and after a long flight I usually get a headache. Leaving the flight deck is a very good idea, and one which I haven't tried yet, however, what to do with a chain smoker? Stay in the loo all the flight?
Another consideration which hasn't been given...I believe some companies allow female first officers to fly till they are a few months pregnant. Will any consideration be given by these captains, in these cases? Or do they end up "twitching wrecks"?
DSR10, I think you do not know how invasive cigarette smoke is to a non-smoking person. Us non-smokers are not "picking" on smokers but just asking for a compromise.
Usually, when they ask me if I mind (obviously expecting a "no"-answer), I reply, "One, here and there won't bother me", kind of implying that I DO mind the smoking but at the same time I am tolerant of one or too. When I get home my hair and clothes are stinking of smoke and after a long flight I usually get a headache. Leaving the flight deck is a very good idea, and one which I haven't tried yet, however, what to do with a chain smoker? Stay in the loo all the flight?Another consideration which hasn't been given...I believe some companies allow female first officers to fly till they are a few months pregnant. Will any consideration be given by these captains, in these cases? Or do they end up "twitching wrecks"?
DSR10, I think you do not know how invasive cigarette smoke is to a non-smoking person. Us non-smokers are not "picking" on smokers but just asking for a compromise.
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Forgive the intrusion from a passenger but is not the air on the flight deck circulated and re-circulated around the aircraft?
If so would I be breathing in contaminated air in the event of a member of the flight crew smoking, or is the air filtered in some way to remove the filth?
If so would I be breathing in contaminated air in the event of a member of the flight crew smoking, or is the air filtered in some way to remove the filth?
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MV-- yes you are partly right-- the degree of recirculation depands apon the model of 737. Passengers do notice the smell of cigarette smoke sometimes leaving the cabin cew with some difficult lies to tell!
My elation at the recent move by FR management over the smoking issue was short lived! My FOs tell me the bulk of smoking Captains have completely ignored the recent instruction (FCI). Maybe the next move will have to be sponsored addiction therapy by the company! Only yesterday I flew a 737 with an overflowing ashtray on the left side!
My elation at the recent move by FR management over the smoking issue was short lived! My FOs tell me the bulk of smoking Captains have completely ignored the recent instruction (FCI). Maybe the next move will have to be sponsored addiction therapy by the company! Only yesterday I flew a 737 with an overflowing ashtray on the left side!
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As a sixty a day addict I used to light up and chain smoke as soon as I hit the cruise, the a/c was also equiped with an ashtray and lighter, aircon was by sliding back the canopy.
However I gave up two years ago and am very tolerent of smokers and how difficult it is, I still crave and if I was told my life was terminal I would be back on the B&H straight away.
However I gave up two years ago and am very tolerent of smokers and how difficult it is, I still crave and if I was told my life was terminal I would be back on the B&H straight away.
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"the bulk of smoking captains have completely ignored the recent instruction".
This is frightening. What other rules do these captains think don't apply to them?
It doesn't say much for their command skills either if they are prepared to compromise the authority of their cabin staff who have to try and prevent the pax smoking.
The addiction does seem to affect the integrity of some smokers.
This is frightening. What other rules do these captains think don't apply to them?
It doesn't say much for their command skills either if they are prepared to compromise the authority of their cabin staff who have to try and prevent the pax smoking.
The addiction does seem to affect the integrity of some smokers.
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Alternately, perhaps it shows precisely the sort of "command authority" neccesary to fly a highly complex piece of equipment. To wit, the ability to sort out the important things from the niggling demands of a nattering nanny state mentality. 
(*puff* *puff*)
(*puff* *puff*)
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TRF4EVR-- that is about the worst answer I've seen yet-- so you are suggesting that to be a good Captain one needs to be a totally selfish egocentric? Safety has improved in recent years - partly due to reduced cross-cockpit gradient-- where does your model Captain fit ?? Face it-- Smoking is Drug addiction and people need treatment-- forcing the side products of that addiction on another person does nothing to improve aircraft safety! In most countries smoking on aircraft at ANY time is illegal, so anyone continuing to smoke is breaking the law, quite apart from any related health issues!
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Smoking on the flight deck, great idea if all the crew members smoke, then by all means smoke away. (In some companies, smoking in the cockpit is almost like being back behind the bike sheds at school all over again. And equally as risky!)
However, I have only one thing to state to all you smokers, ENSURE YOU CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELVES (ie empty the F*****G ashtrays), because cleaning up someone elses mess after a flight is revolting enough, let alone having to clean up your cigarette ends from the ashtrays. By the way, if you are flying with a non smoker, and you ask, "Do you mind if I smoke?" This is like asking your flight deck companion, "Do you mind if I take a S**T in my flight bag?" (and leave it there for the rest of the flight!) Yep, the smell of S**t is pretty much the same/as bad as the smell of burnt tobacco is to some people.
To conclude, CRM isn't just checklist and call outs!
Enjoy.
However, I have only one thing to state to all you smokers, ENSURE YOU CLEAN UP AFTER YOURSELVES (ie empty the F*****G ashtrays), because cleaning up someone elses mess after a flight is revolting enough, let alone having to clean up your cigarette ends from the ashtrays. By the way, if you are flying with a non smoker, and you ask, "Do you mind if I smoke?" This is like asking your flight deck companion, "Do you mind if I take a S**T in my flight bag?" (and leave it there for the rest of the flight!) Yep, the smell of S**t is pretty much the same/as bad as the smell of burnt tobacco is to some people.
To conclude, CRM isn't just checklist and call outs!
Enjoy.
Last edited by Flat-Spot; 20th Sep 2003 at 04:08.
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Well said flat-spot. I don't smoke around people (or at least professional acquaintances) that don't themselves light up, and so obviously I wouldn't "inflict" my "addiction" upon an FO (if I had one).
Having said that, I don't curb myself due to some dubious "health" issues that have yet to be proven by even the loosest definition of the word, and I take a rather dim view of the crusading ninnies of the world who take it upon themselves not only to classify any behavior that they don't themselves engage in as "dangerous" or "defective" in one way or another, but to see to it that these behaviors are eliminated post-haste "for the good of all".
How bout *you* face it vertical speed. An inquisitorial attitude backed up with suspect "facts" toward people that don't live their lives in lock-step with your personal preferences is a Serious Disease, and one that Requires Treatment.
Having said that, I don't curb myself due to some dubious "health" issues that have yet to be proven by even the loosest definition of the word, and I take a rather dim view of the crusading ninnies of the world who take it upon themselves not only to classify any behavior that they don't themselves engage in as "dangerous" or "defective" in one way or another, but to see to it that these behaviors are eliminated post-haste "for the good of all".
How bout *you* face it vertical speed. An inquisitorial attitude backed up with suspect "facts" toward people that don't live their lives in lock-step with your personal preferences is a Serious Disease, and one that Requires Treatment.