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China Southern wannabes

Old 25th Jun 2017, 06:17
  #221 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: europe
Posts: 96
Originally Posted by TMFI View Post
Do you knon if cz provide id 90 and zed with other airline?
Absolutely not!!
As Cedrus mentioned, you receive 6 'staff tickets' to use on the CSA network but they are about as useful as a concrete parachute.
They are basically ECO STBY with the incredibly slim chance to upgrade them to confirmed tickets IF you are lucky enough to book on a day when about 10 different factors all align and allow you to book a confirmed seat 😫

From what i heard, some other Chinese carriers do offer ID tickets. Shenzhen for 1 certainly used to. No idea if they still do.
HNA apparently do although that would need to be confirmed by someone on contract there.

CSA package is far inferior to others and the only real pull here is the RSP. However with all the RSP's full and all of them with waiting lists, some of the other carriers look much more appealing.
Recently somebody told me that HNA are looking at various new roster modes to attract more pilots. Apparently they want to get something close to a 2 week on 2 week off roster by operating guys to their chosen port on 1st and last day of duty. Interesting if comes true..........

Cheers,
mach85 is offline  
Old 25th Jun 2017, 14:19
  #222 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: buenos aires
Posts: 22
As regards staff travel, i've used it several times and it works fine. There are many better programs out there for staff travel for sure. Working as a foreigner in CSN is a relatively new thing for the chinese pilots and staff so there are constant comparisons between 'us' and 'them' and this does sometimes lead to friction.

Staff travel is one of those areas as any benefit 'we' are given is scrutinised by the local pilots for comparison with their contracts. They simply dont understand the life of a contractor as their country doesn't entertain the type of shenadigans that we (westerner contractors) are used to. Most of them don't even know what tax or insurance is as they dont ever need to know. A lot of the western guys come to china and sign a contract where everything is clearly stated them moan afterwards even though they are been given precisely what they asked for and signed up for.

Reading all this has left me totally confused. Where is it you guys all work that you are in a position to throw stones? I mean where are these perfect jobs? The only downside to this job is the time away from home and the stupid medical and its tough sometimes. if you cant handle china guys stay at home. It's not for the faint hearted and it's not for everyone. But man it isnt as bad as some people here have said, ill stay here for the rest of my career if i can dodge the dreaded medical pit...
blueonblue is offline  
Old 26th Jun 2017, 16:23
  #223 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: moon
Posts: 83
blueonblue? still better blueonred!
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Old 27th Jun 2017, 15:36
  #224 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wyoming
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by blueonblue View Post
Reading all this has left me totally confused. Where is it you guys all work that you are in a position to throw stones? I mean where are these perfect jobs? The only downside to this job is the time away from home and the stupid medical and its tough sometimes. if you cant handle china guys stay at home. It's not for the faint hearted and it's not for everyone. But man it isnt as bad as some people here have said, ill stay here for the rest of my career if i can dodge the dreaded medical pit...
Blue-blue most jobs allow you to actually be the PIC, not get smoked upon, have some say when you get to rest vs. having the PIC tell you as the Cruise Captain when you will sleep. As I understand it the A-330 guys fly regularly as the PIC but on the Boeings you are still nothing more than glorified Cruise Captains begging for a landing occasionally, attempting to avoid a smoke filled chinese cockpit and pleading for a few hours rest during the night vs. being assigned the daylight rest periods along with the PIC dictating what fuel load and alternate airports you will use and denying you any input.
WYOMINGPILOT is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 17:15
  #225 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Tierra del Fuego
Posts: 54
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ScdidQIkry0
Tasmanian is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 18:33
  #226 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: moon
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by WYOMINGPILOT View Post
Blue-blue most jobs allow you to actually be the PIC, not get smoked upon, have some say when you get to rest vs. having the PIC tell you as the Cruise Captain when you will sleep. As I understand it the A-330 guys fly regularly as the PIC but on the Boeings you are still nothing more than glorified Cruise Captains begging for a landing occasionally, attempting to avoid a smoke filled chinese cockpit and pleading for a few hours rest during the night vs. being assigned the daylight rest periods along with the PIC dictating what fuel load and alternate airports you will use and denying you any input.
Hey WY this was your post 5 years ago ...

"The Moral of the story in China is get in and get the cash for 2 contracts and then you are financially set for life if you can wisely manage your money. There is no job security here but it is very liveable. The medicals are atrocious and can be the most difficult part of the job. The flying is actually enjoyable if you have a mix of International and domestic flying and the young first officers even though not very experienced are eager and thorough. The environment is as described but there are some jewels in the rough. Sanya, Tibet, Sichuan etc. are incredible to see and visit. The job is different here than the Middle East as it is higher paying and MUCH more time off but the job security pales. Ask me again in 5 years and I'll tell you whether it was the right move or not. As with any Ex-Pat job always have a Plan B nearby. The beer here is actually quite good and very cheap. A 700ml bottle can be purchased for 3 rmb about 45 cents."

Now I'm asking the question again?
donpizmeov2 is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 20:48
  #227 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: ...............
Posts: 110
Just in case rumour might get in the way of some facts here. In the AMS base the majority 80% are PIC and operate as such. The remaining 20% have yet to complete PIC checks. This takes time and patience but it does happen.
The Guangzhou based pilots have a smaller number of PIC amongst the ranks of foreign pilots but they do less hours again its a matter of time.
Smoking is forbidden by CS..........and not the 'big' issue it is made out to be here
Begging for sleep is a whopper as CS operate 4 crew so it is almost guaranteed that the CS crew are less fatigued than their equivalent 3 crew western counterparts.
doniedarko is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 22:59
  #228 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: buenos aires
Posts: 22
And 'begging for sleep'????? LOL. Wyoming you don't work at CSN. That comment is absolute proof. There's 4 of us on every flight, fatigue is not an issue here whatsoever. There are issues as i said, but fatigue ain't one of them, that's just total rubbish.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 11:06
  #229 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Annecy
Posts: 3
What is happening in CSA? I heard that 3 french captains A330 failed the recurrent SIM. For obscured reasons. Back F/O for 6-8 months at 6000$ per months? I think they all left or will leave the company
What is the reality about that?
Anyone on the place who could confirm what is the failure rate on a recurrent SIM?
Why? What is the reason?
I passed all the selection process and I am about to decide to join.
It seems scary on top of the medical check fail rate?
GolfMike72 is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2017, 15:00
  #230 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wyoming
Posts: 211
Don,

I do NOT recommend these widebody contracts unless you want to get smoked on, have little to no part in the decision making process and want to beg for a landing. Regarding long term in China, I am a survivor so still here but as I said 6 years ago the medicals are difficult and most guys fail along the way somewhere as I have seen many ExPats come and go. Long duty days, chinese red tape and bureaucracy make the living here difficult at best. If you have other options like a major airline and you are below age 45 stay and pursue that route. If you want to give China a try pm me and I can guide you with my experience here. The money is good but the pain can be excruciating at times.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 15:03
  #231 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wyoming
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by blueonblue View Post
And 'begging for sleep'????? LOL. Wyoming you don't work at CSN. That comment is absolute proof. There's 4 of us on every flight, fatigue is not an issue here whatsoever. There are issues as i said, but fatigue ain't one of them, that's just total rubbish.
I never said fatigue was the issue, having any say in which sleep cycle you get when you are not the PIC is the issue. No I am not at CS but have friends there and wisely choose not to get smoked on, beg for landings or play Cruise Captain in the middle of the night as the PIC rests comfortably thank you.
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Old 29th Jun 2017, 16:07
  #232 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: moon
Posts: 83
Hey WY

it's like 1 leg you are the PIC and the return you are relief or its more complicated?
donpizmeov2 is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2017, 15:39
  #233 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: buenos aires
Posts: 22
Why would anyone pm someone who is not and has never been at china southern?? And whenever I didn't like the rest arrangement I asked for it to be changed and it was granted. In all my time there I only ever ran into one 'difficult' type and I used to run into 'difficult' types daily in my last job.

One thing for sure, don't come to CSN expecting to be leader Capt on ultra long haul having just come off a 320 or 737. Why? Well because you don't have a clue what you're doing that's why and it takes a while to learn, once you do, they will make you PIC, it's pretty much that simple. There have been a few experienced heavy blokes that are here that were 'quickly' made up. I did laugh a few times listening to ex short haul blokes tell all that they were 'fast track'. Made many smile that one. Sure it takes an awful long time, but if you don't like it then stay at home. Together with possible sim fail and medical it's a huge risk coming here. Mr Wyoming works short haul elsewhere in china and is ill informed as to how the contract works at CSN, true or false? Saying 'what a mate said' is a classic way of misinforming others.
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Old 2nd Jul 2017, 02:54
  #234 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: wyoming
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by blueonblue View Post
Why would anyone pm someone who is not and has never been at china southern?? One thing for sure, don't come to CSN expecting to be leader Capt on ultra long haul having just come off a 320 or 737. Sure it takes an awful long time, Mr Wyoming works short haul elsewhere in china and is ill informed as to how the contract works at CSN, true or false? Saying 'what a mate said' is a classic way of misinforming others.
You answered the question the exact same way my friends there have.

"SURE IT TAKES AN AWFUL LONG TIME"

In the meantime enjoy begging for a landing, running out of the cockpit as you get smoked upon profusely or sleeping during the day while the PIC sleeps soundly ALL NIGHT.
WYOMINGPILOT is offline  
Old 3rd Jul 2017, 13:31
  #235 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: buenos aires
Posts: 22
This always seems to happen, two people getting into a spat online. I've no interest in throwing bricks at each other, am merely pointing out that there's very little point commenting on something you know nothing about, and since you are not a CSN pilot nor are you a long haul pilot that your presence and comments on this thread are misinformed at best and simply false at worst. Everyone seems to have a different story, I have one colleague PIC on every flight he does, 120 landings this year already and hates it. Another younger colleague who recently became pic and does his level best to avoid performing a landing or being pic as he correctly points out that he isn't paid any more.

Added to that I have never begged for a landing. We operate long haul flights with 4 crew and that means 3 trips per month to go around, a requirement for all to perform 3 landings every 3 months. This means there's always someone that needs the next available landing to stay current, a requirement a short haul pilot simply wouldn't consider. It suits some, it doesn't suit others.
blueonblue is offline  
Old 8th Jul 2017, 06:44
  #236 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: China
Posts: 14
Blueonblue is speaking out his arse.

I had 17 years wide body experience before joining; yet I, along with everyone else waited two years to be PIC.

I also did a 24 hour duty last week that destroyed me.

I also fly against my body clock doing fatiguing domestic in between a layover in China, not having slept a wink the night before due to time zone changes.

So to suggest fatigue is not an issue is just a lie.

Smoking is an issue. I've been smoked on repeatedly by the senior trainers and leaders as they chain smoke all the way to the glide slope, so you have no way to escape.

I also pay extra to stay in the Crowne Plaza to get some relief from the dump that is the pearl.

I've just done a 9 day trip to do the simulator - which involves sim sessions again at the other end of my body clock, and hours of pointless cbt and a pointless test. Luckily I didn't get a maniac instructor on this occasion - unlike the last time, which caused one senior captain to resign.

It would be nice to book a holiday to get away from it all. Oh wait, I can't book anything, because my leave is not confirmed until the end of the month before!!

The only reason anyone is here pure hard cash.
chinafly is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2017, 13:31
  #237 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Wherever they pay me to be...
Posts: 45
Quick question for the Americans working in China:

Are the taxes paid in China sufficient to avoid paying taxes to the US?

I have previous experience in India, where "I paid" 33% tax, and that was of course high enough to not have to pay taxes in the US.

Thanks!
StinkyMonkey is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2017, 15:05
  #238 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Melbourne
Age: 57
Posts: 29
The short story here is that CSA is not for everyone, both professionaly and financially. So speak/pm as many guys (who are actually here) as you can and understand that each fleet is like a different airline. Then do a screening and finally make your decision. Then feel free to complain about what you don't like.
Savage175 is offline  
Old 9th Jul 2017, 20:04
  #239 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: moon
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by Savage175 View Post
The short story here is that CSA is not for everyone, both professionaly and financially. So speak/pm as many guys (who are actually here) as you can and understand that each fleet is like a different airline. Then do a screening and finally make your decision. Then feel free to complain about what you don't like.

It looks like the best fleet is the 330 and the worse 777! Anyone on that!
donpizmeov2 is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2017, 20:17
  #240 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: UAE
Posts: 1
to china or not to china

Hi Everybody,

My first post in here, I would like to request some information to the CSN pilots, I am in touch with direct personnel for the B777 or B787 offer. I have no idea about this broker so far, any recommendations?

I would appreciate if someone working nowadays for china southern would like to share his/her experience with me by pm or we could even meet maybe. I am interested in applying next year. I heard all kind of stories and Id really appreciate a quick chat.

Cool airs everybody!
tonisb82 is offline  

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