Shenzhen Airlines
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Agent VS Airline.
Hey Reverse Flight,
We are talking about THE AGENT! not airline. Wasinc takes the money from the airline and keeps the salary of the pilots. What does that have to do with the airline? Look into it a little more and you will know its all bunch of horse
. What flyfly said is absolutely true. There are many pilots who are burnt with wasinc. This is not a rumour. It is FACT!
We are talking about THE AGENT! not airline. Wasinc takes the money from the airline and keeps the salary of the pilots. What does that have to do with the airline? Look into it a little more and you will know its all bunch of horse
. What flyfly said is absolutely true. There are many pilots who are burnt with wasinc. This is not a rumour. It is FACT!
Join Date: Nov 2009
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What you hear and see is not what you get!
What you hear and see is not what you get!
I agree with OnFinal with a lot of points. I guess we share same thoughts.
Here is the deal guys. Every agency wants to make money. But after they get you to China are they going to stand by you OR AT LEAST DIRECT YOU in the right path. Almost all agencies are very nice in the beginning, some even go out of the way to help you, but what about after arriving in China OR THE COUNTRY YOU CHOOSE. Has anyone thought about that?
VOR HOLDINGS ask us to sign all the airlines consent form in the beginning. WHY? If I want to choose one airline why do I sign for the others with VOR Holdings? That Is not right! IT IS HORSE
The agency that tells you upfront that you can try with us for three attempts and after that you are free to choose another agency, that is the agency you want to choose as your representing agent , because they seem honest and will remain honest after your arrival in that foreign country you choose.
Now I am not too keen on WASINC, but Wasinc does not make pilots sign all airlines consent form. You choose Shenzen you sign Shenzen only. Don't get me wrong I am not in favour of WASINC. But the fact is the fact.
I have done research and found DPI, Sigmar, Cambridge to be black and white.
This PPRuNe is to protect our fellow pilots and not throw them from the frying pan into the FIRE!
Any one praising VOR and WAS has to be either an inside guy or a pilot who has not yet experienced few months into the contract. I agree I am not few months into the contract but I have made LOADS of calls to overseas pilots who are years into the contract and they have 3 good things to say but 20 dissappointment facts. Come on guys I can understand few bad points but explaining 20 bad points which make complete sense is a sign stay away from VOR/WAS.
Hey Typhoonpilot! Get that clause removed. If they say no. Show them the finger we love so much....... MAN!..........Because pilots get their salary after Chinese taxes are paid and yes you can get a receipt from the airline stating the tax paid so you can show the government of your country the amount of tax you paid overseas as a result you owe less tax to your country's government. I know for a fact UNCLE SAM accepts this.
Typhoonpilot, which agency has this clause in their contract? i would like to give them a peae of my mind. this VOR has their office address in USA so American pilots have to be careful because you will receive salary in USA and end up paying double the tax. I would not beleive a word VOR has to say about the TAX. There is one thing you don't mess with and THAT IS YOUR TAXES TO IRS!
I agree with OnFinal with a lot of points. I guess we share same thoughts.
Here is the deal guys. Every agency wants to make money. But after they get you to China are they going to stand by you OR AT LEAST DIRECT YOU in the right path. Almost all agencies are very nice in the beginning, some even go out of the way to help you, but what about after arriving in China OR THE COUNTRY YOU CHOOSE. Has anyone thought about that?
VOR HOLDINGS ask us to sign all the airlines consent form in the beginning. WHY? If I want to choose one airline why do I sign for the others with VOR Holdings? That Is not right! IT IS HORSE
The agency that tells you upfront that you can try with us for three attempts and after that you are free to choose another agency, that is the agency you want to choose as your representing agent , because they seem honest and will remain honest after your arrival in that foreign country you choose.
Now I am not too keen on WASINC, but Wasinc does not make pilots sign all airlines consent form. You choose Shenzen you sign Shenzen only. Don't get me wrong I am not in favour of WASINC. But the fact is the fact.
I have done research and found DPI, Sigmar, Cambridge to be black and white.
This PPRuNe is to protect our fellow pilots and not throw them from the frying pan into the FIRE!
Any one praising VOR and WAS has to be either an inside guy or a pilot who has not yet experienced few months into the contract. I agree I am not few months into the contract but I have made LOADS of calls to overseas pilots who are years into the contract and they have 3 good things to say but 20 dissappointment facts. Come on guys I can understand few bad points but explaining 20 bad points which make complete sense is a sign stay away from VOR/WAS.
Hey Typhoonpilot! Get that clause removed. If they say no. Show them the finger we love so much....... MAN!..........Because pilots get their salary after Chinese taxes are paid and yes you can get a receipt from the airline stating the tax paid so you can show the government of your country the amount of tax you paid overseas as a result you owe less tax to your country's government. I know for a fact UNCLE SAM accepts this.
Typhoonpilot, which agency has this clause in their contract? i would like to give them a peae of my mind. this VOR has their office address in USA so American pilots have to be careful because you will receive salary in USA and end up paying double the tax. I would not beleive a word VOR has to say about the TAX. There is one thing you don't mess with and THAT IS YOUR TAXES TO IRS!
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Who is defaulting on pay?
Other than the obvious, can anyone enlighten us on what exactly happens when you don't get paid on the due date?
Let me clarify... so the 15th rolls around and, hey presto, no dinero is deposited into your bank account. So you call or email the agency and let them know your concerns.
My questions, in all seriousness, is what happens after that?
Do you get paid a few days later…the following month or what?
I’m just trying to get a realistic idea on the scope of this issue and what to expect.
I can perhaps live with not getting paid on the due date, but would expect the issue to be resolved pronto.
Also, I’d like to know who is not paying you? The airline or the agency?
According to the contract setup, Shenzhen itself pays you part of the contract fee into a Chinese account and the balance is paid by the agency into a separate account in HK. Supposedly to mitigate the taxes.
Let me clarify... so the 15th rolls around and, hey presto, no dinero is deposited into your bank account. So you call or email the agency and let them know your concerns.
My questions, in all seriousness, is what happens after that?
Do you get paid a few days later…the following month or what?
I’m just trying to get a realistic idea on the scope of this issue and what to expect.
I can perhaps live with not getting paid on the due date, but would expect the issue to be resolved pronto.
Also, I’d like to know who is not paying you? The airline or the agency?
According to the contract setup, Shenzhen itself pays you part of the contract fee into a Chinese account and the balance is paid by the agency into a separate account in HK. Supposedly to mitigate the taxes.
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Pets
Hey Novak757
Why don't you try to get in touch with the girls at "Dial-an-Angel" here Dial-an-Angel - Shenzhen relocation & real estate services and ask them. They did a great job showing us around the place and may have the answers you seek.
Cheers
Why don't you try to get in touch with the girls at "Dial-an-Angel" here Dial-an-Angel - Shenzhen relocation & real estate services and ask them. They did a great job showing us around the place and may have the answers you seek.
Cheers
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Payday 10th or 15th?
Hey Eddie Shoestring,
Lets get something clear here. Why are you saying pay day of 15th? I have been told it is the 10th and the airline pays the agency before end of the month. This, I confirmed with the agency.
As for not getting paid by due date, Pilots have to do the usual. Give out a few fumes, yell shout kick a few boxes around bang and hang up the phone on the agency. Finally! Threaten to stop flying and start packing your bags to LEAVE.
I am serious about what I mentioned I am not being sarcastic or having a laugh. There is nothing we can do when in China. This is why I am trying to find an agent who is reliable or at least somewhat close to reliability/credibility.
If anyone knows any other PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I have sent my documents to a couple of agents and waiting.
Eddie Shoestring! If you are there in Shenzen with wasinc are you facing this problem. I would like to know because my application is also with wasinc and if the other agency doesn't call I will have no option but choosing Wasinc for the process.
Lets get something clear here. Why are you saying pay day of 15th? I have been told it is the 10th and the airline pays the agency before end of the month. This, I confirmed with the agency.
As for not getting paid by due date, Pilots have to do the usual. Give out a few fumes, yell shout kick a few boxes around bang and hang up the phone on the agency. Finally! Threaten to stop flying and start packing your bags to LEAVE.
I am serious about what I mentioned I am not being sarcastic or having a laugh. There is nothing we can do when in China. This is why I am trying to find an agent who is reliable or at least somewhat close to reliability/credibility.
If anyone knows any other PLEASE LET ME KNOW. I have sent my documents to a couple of agents and waiting.
Eddie Shoestring! If you are there in Shenzen with wasinc are you facing this problem. I would like to know because my application is also with wasinc and if the other agency doesn't call I will have no option but choosing Wasinc for the process.
Join Date: Mar 2008
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getting nervous
I too would love any info on any more reliable contractors. I have a tentative interview set up with Shenzhen but the threads I have read are making me nervous. I do hear good things about Sichuan (sic) in Chengdu represented by VORholdings, and I hear Global Aviation does a good job but I am not sure who they represent. As far as my own experience with contractors they seem to be peas-in-a-pod. I am currently serving time in the middle east and of of the three contractors the bulk of the pilot group works with its all about the same. They do a pretty good job of getting you as far as the interview, but once there you are pretty much on your own. You don't get paid, company says they sent money, after several days, the contractor accidentally picks up the phone, comes up with some cosmic BS excuse of why you have not been paid yet. Or the new favorite here, we were ALL told you would do training during on rotation,,,,but for the last year we do our 6 weeks and then get to go to training. And now the latest twist. The contractor for the training is pissed at the company, the solution, fail all the expats, so the company has to pay for more sim. time. Now the company has come out and said if this happens your not allowed to go home, but must stay and do the recheck. This means your 3 week home just got cut to a week.
So, again, if anybody feels good about standing up for one of the Asian contractors I'd like to know. My family cannot deal with separation any more and I am not bringing them to the kingdom, so the Far East it has to be. BTY can you join Shenzhen direct?
So, again, if anybody feels good about standing up for one of the Asian contractors I'd like to know. My family cannot deal with separation any more and I am not bringing them to the kingdom, so the Far East it has to be. BTY can you join Shenzhen direct?
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Hi Novak757,
I am not in China but I do know the people have brought pets and I do not remember it being a huge issue. BTY, did you fly for ACA till about the mid 90's?
I am not in China but I do know the people have brought pets and I do not remember it being a huge issue. BTY, did you fly for ACA till about the mid 90's?
Join Date: Jun 2009
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Snk596
This is from the Sample contract I was sent...
Payment Schedule
A) Monthly Service Fee: This fee shall be paid to CONTRACTOR by WASINC INTERNATIONAL on the 15th day of the month following the month the relevant services are provided.
If you have been told anything different in the last month, then you are probably correct. Wheather it's the 10th or the 15th is not my concern, I am just trying to get an idea of how often the payments are late and if it's (just) the agent or the airline itself that is defaulting.
How long do you wait for the money to arrive in your bank account after you kicked a few boxes around, sent smoke signals etc and generally gotoff with the agent?
I appreciate you are not being sarcastic or having a laugh, neither am I.
I just want to get an idea of the scope of the pay issue.
As far as finding a totally reliable agent...., haven't found or worked for one yet, sorry.
This is from the Sample contract I was sent...
Payment Schedule
A) Monthly Service Fee: This fee shall be paid to CONTRACTOR by WASINC INTERNATIONAL on the 15th day of the month following the month the relevant services are provided.
If you have been told anything different in the last month, then you are probably correct. Wheather it's the 10th or the 15th is not my concern, I am just trying to get an idea of how often the payments are late and if it's (just) the agent or the airline itself that is defaulting.
How long do you wait for the money to arrive in your bank account after you kicked a few boxes around, sent smoke signals etc and generally got
off with the agent? I appreciate you are not being sarcastic or having a laugh, neither am I.
I just want to get an idea of the scope of the pay issue.
As far as finding a totally reliable agent...., haven't found or worked for one yet, sorry.
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Loads Of Clarification
OK GUYS I AM GOING TO combine a lot of stuff for all.
Eddie Shoestring! That agent was not Wasinc it is DPI who pays by the 10th. but as I said DPI is slower than wasinc. wasinc is aggressive and gets you there. HONESTLY! I don't know if it is the agent who delays the payment or Airline?
Cameltoad! Read previous threads, they say to stay away from VOR and W. I think I read somewhere Global is second name for VOR. I think! For sure China Recruitment is VOR because I called and the Chinese lady(it is a China no.) said to contact Doug Mowrey. Pretty much all agents get you to your destination and then BYE BYE!
That should be fine with all of us because we are pilots and have to deal on our own.
But the agent has to make sure we get our salary. Thats all I am concerned with. I don't need babysitting. NO! I am not making fun of anybody.
As far as I have checked and made hundreds of calls you need a type rating + min 500 hrs PIC on type. plus TT, etc.
Now! there is one post somewhere here where a pilot stated he got into A CHINESE AIRLINE WITH 250 HRS ONLY! BACK A YEAR ago OR SO. But he seemed to be a smart a_ _. He won't tell us who the airline is and blah blah! having a laugh while he wrote that.YES he is in one of these posts. maybe on another thread.
It is whom you know and how desperate China gets.
I am still contacting a few pilots there in China who are giving me inside and trying to help me out. the info I get is mainly for 737 and A320.
Eddie Shoestring! That agent was not Wasinc it is DPI who pays by the 10th. but as I said DPI is slower than wasinc. wasinc is aggressive and gets you there. HONESTLY! I don't know if it is the agent who delays the payment or Airline?
Cameltoad! Read previous threads, they say to stay away from VOR and W. I think I read somewhere Global is second name for VOR. I think! For sure China Recruitment is VOR because I called and the Chinese lady(it is a China no.) said to contact Doug Mowrey. Pretty much all agents get you to your destination and then BYE BYE!
That should be fine with all of us because we are pilots and have to deal on our own.
But the agent has to make sure we get our salary. Thats all I am concerned with. I don't need babysitting. NO! I am not making fun of anybody.
As far as I have checked and made hundreds of calls you need a type rating + min 500 hrs PIC on type. plus TT, etc.
Now! there is one post somewhere here where a pilot stated he got into A CHINESE AIRLINE WITH 250 HRS ONLY! BACK A YEAR ago OR SO. But he seemed to be a smart a_ _. He won't tell us who the airline is and blah blah! having a laugh while he wrote that.YES he is in one of these posts. maybe on another thread.
It is whom you know and how desperate China gets.
I am still contacting a few pilots there in China who are giving me inside and trying to help me out. the info I get is mainly for 737 and A320.
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Sharing My Views
This snk596 seems to be knowing more sitting in USA than anyone flying in China! where do you get your info? It is accurate, I agree. But it is too much correct information!
Add to your list, snk596. I hope you are sitting down for this.
In CHINA! Passenger airline's ground staff make money illegally.They load up cargo in the cargo bay/bin/hold whatever. On many occasions this cargo is not manifested! YES! It goes unseen. Airplane gets from point A to point B and the cargo is offloaded quitely. The airline has no clue because there is no paperwork. RESULT! airplane being heavy and speeds calculated at a lighter weight.
This way ground staff is running their own little mafia at the life's of others.
Sorry, I can't mention the name of the airline. But this came from the pilot's mouth who was in the cockpit and the Chinese co-pilot figured it out not this expat.
Well for those of us keen to head out to the FarFarFar East, be careful!
I have heard a recorded conversation of ATC in China. they speak Chinese and English to foreign airlines. the checklist is in CHINESE!
Add to your list, snk596. I hope you are sitting down for this.
In CHINA! Passenger airline's ground staff make money illegally.They load up cargo in the cargo bay/bin/hold whatever. On many occasions this cargo is not manifested! YES! It goes unseen. Airplane gets from point A to point B and the cargo is offloaded quitely. The airline has no clue because there is no paperwork. RESULT! airplane being heavy and speeds calculated at a lighter weight.
This way ground staff is running their own little mafia at the life's of others.
Sorry, I can't mention the name of the airline. But this came from the pilot's mouth who was in the cockpit and the Chinese co-pilot figured it out not this expat.
Well for those of us keen to head out to the FarFarFar East, be careful!
I have heard a recorded conversation of ATC in China. they speak Chinese and English to foreign airlines. the checklist is in CHINESE!
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Flying in China
Hello, I have been flying in China for going on 2 years and here is my view.
1. The controllers are required to speak English to foreign flight planned crews. (they do wonder off and start speaking Chinese, just reply in English).
2. Cargo, I think it may be true that cargo is loaded on the plane without paperwork. Just keep that in mind when you fly but I would think it is small amounts, who knows.
3. Metric altitudes you convert to feet for your airplane.
4. QNH but there are a few QFE airports
Many other factors that are different from the west.
Good Luck, On Final
1. The controllers are required to speak English to foreign flight planned crews. (they do wonder off and start speaking Chinese, just reply in English).
2. Cargo, I think it may be true that cargo is loaded on the plane without paperwork. Just keep that in mind when you fly but I would think it is small amounts, who knows.
3. Metric altitudes you convert to feet for your airplane.
4. QNH but there are a few QFE airports
Many other factors that are different from the west.
Good Luck, On Final
Join Date: Dec 2009
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The Truth about WASINC
I've been here at Shenzhen for some time now and don't understand some of these posts about working for Shenzhen and/or WASINC. Some of the posts did raise some very good questions but figured it would be better to go right to the source to find out the truth about some of these issues.
I spoke to Dave Ross and Brian Turner on the phone at WASINC and they explained the entire story to some of these posts that are found on this forum. I then went and attempted to contact those who had made those posts to confirm some of the details about their particular experience but have never received a response back from them
. Just goes to show you that you should do your homework and not take information found on the internet to be truth.
Both Dave and Brian said that they would be happy to explain any situation in full if people have questions.
I am very happy here. Sure its different than the US but that was to be expected. I have never had a problem being paid and plan on being here for a LONG time.
I spoke to Dave Ross and Brian Turner on the phone at WASINC and they explained the entire story to some of these posts that are found on this forum. I then went and attempted to contact those who had made those posts to confirm some of the details about their particular experience but have never received a response back from them
. Just goes to show you that you should do your homework and not take information found on the internet to be truth.Both Dave and Brian said that they would be happy to explain any situation in full if people have questions.
I am very happy here. Sure its different than the US but that was to be expected. I have never had a problem being paid and plan on being here for a LONG time.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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WASINC
Hello,
I have been sitting on the sidelines not trying to raise small arms fire to mention WASINC. My experience has been very good. I have spoke with Dave Ross, Doug Ward and Steve Turner and I have never had any problems. They were always willing to help.
When I first I tried to come to China it was with WASINC, almost 2 years ago. They did not have a position I wanted but WASINC was eager to assist me even when I was with another agency.
Steve Turner helped me with the Chinese Written Exam so I tried to help others as well. I have been in frequent contact with Doug Ward and think they are trying to do the best job they can and look out for the pilots. Many things that happen in China because it is China.
I am sure there are other sides of the story but this is my side I just wanted to put out there..
Good Luck,
On Final
I have been sitting on the sidelines not trying to raise small arms fire to mention WASINC. My experience has been very good. I have spoke with Dave Ross, Doug Ward and Steve Turner and I have never had any problems. They were always willing to help.
When I first I tried to come to China it was with WASINC, almost 2 years ago. They did not have a position I wanted but WASINC was eager to assist me even when I was with another agency.
Steve Turner helped me with the Chinese Written Exam so I tried to help others as well. I have been in frequent contact with Doug Ward and think they are trying to do the best job they can and look out for the pilots. Many things that happen in China because it is China.
I am sure there are other sides of the story but this is my side I just wanted to put out there..
Good Luck,
On Final
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"I spoke to Dave Ross and Brian Turner on the phone at WASINC and they explained the entire story to some of these posts that are found on this forum."
So maybe you could share with everybody what the "entire story is" ?
"but figured it would be better to go right to the source to find outthe truth about some of these issues."
Any information you receive from wasinc will be skewed in their favor. Go down to shekou where all the shenzhen pilots live and hang out at a bar or restaurant for long enough to talk with some other pilots who have been burned by wasinc or can't wait for their contract to end so they can try somewhere else. Unfortunately when the contract ends they won't be able to go anywhere else in china because they will be stuck with wasinc. The airline won't release them without a huge fine, and wasinc has a non-compete clause so they won't be able to sign on with the same airline with a different leasing company. Yes, some people are happy and everything is smooth, others have had really bad experiences with wasinc. Lots have left recently, that's for sure...
So maybe you could share with everybody what the "entire story is" ?
"but figured it would be better to go right to the source to find outthe truth about some of these issues."
Any information you receive from wasinc will be skewed in their favor. Go down to shekou where all the shenzhen pilots live and hang out at a bar or restaurant for long enough to talk with some other pilots who have been burned by wasinc or can't wait for their contract to end so they can try somewhere else. Unfortunately when the contract ends they won't be able to go anywhere else in china because they will be stuck with wasinc. The airline won't release them without a huge fine, and wasinc has a non-compete clause so they won't be able to sign on with the same airline with a different leasing company. Yes, some people are happy and everything is smooth, others have had really bad experiences with wasinc. Lots have left recently, that's for sure...
Join Date: May 2009
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Anyone who wants information on how these contracts can go badly can PM me. I will share my experience.
WASINC will work hard to get you into the door, but after that you will be left to fend for yourself.
WASINC will work hard to get you into the door, but after that you will be left to fend for yourself.