Air Japan (AJX) B767

[CaptainProp]

Interesting.

Not enough experienced pilots around anymore for T&Cs on offer? T&Cs really that bad? Completely unrealistic recruitment policies?

[atpcliff]

Heard KAL needed 80 guys by year end, and they had 0% chance of that happening.

What will airlines like ANA do down the road, as recruiting gets more and more difficult???

[CaptainProp]

I have a feeling that Italy, Spain and the AA+ rating on the US will take care of that...at least in the short term.

Long term....? Not so sure. BA need 800 pilots by 2016, Gulf airlines need 1700 pilots per year, airbus backlog for the 320neo is now 1000+ aircraft and Boeing has how many orders? China and India still showing showing double digit growth rates etc etc...

Then again, we have been hearing about this so called "pilot shortage" before haven't we?

[The Dominican]

I don't really believe in an overall shortage of pilots but there is definitely the need for experienced pilots with wide body PIC that can cover DEC positions, airlines in the middle and the far east are feeling the pinch already and they will have to sweeten the deal if they want to get people interested. Here in Japan the need for pilots is bad now and it will become grave when the LCC's enter the market next year.
Several things didn't turn out to be as grave as some pundits were predicting, first the so called "JAL effect" didn't turn the market upside down as some were saying, most of the pilots that were displaced (nowhere near the numbers that were predicted) have already moved on to other jobs or left the business all together, JAL is in a lot better shape financially today than it was even two years ago and the attrition due to retirements should kick in again by late next year according to some of their pilots that I have talked to, they tell me that right now they are short on crews and that even without any growth when guys start reaching 60 again they will be leaving at the same rate they were before the bankruptcy, recruiting of new cadets will be very hard for them because people will be very reluctant to start a career at an airline that can displace you out of seniority as they did. I'll be so bold as to say that JAL will be a source of expat jobs in the no so distant future because of that.
The natural disaster here in Japan didn't turn out to be the economical disaster that pundits were predicting either and the world economy will begin racing again, I know there is a lot of speculation about this AA+ rating but there is a more politics than sensible economics behind that.
Airlines will have to sweeten the deal if they want to attract suitable candidates, either that or park airplanes

[Talon1]

Something mentioned in an earlier post about no real chance of an upgrade in first contract (5 years??).
Is this still the case? Any chance at ALL??

[oldhasbeen]

real good chance if everyone who says they want to bail from here actually does

[The Dominican]

no real chance of an upgrade in first contract (5 years??).
Is this still the case? Any chance at ALL??

Nobody can give you an accurate answer to that Talon, we simply don't know. Right now there are some guys that are going back to the US taking recalls and other guys are looking into opportunities closer to home (the International market is getting a lot better) we don't know what are ANA's plans for AJX or how will the introduction of LCC's into the Japanese market next year will affect us or even if they will take steps towards maintaining competitiveness on our T&C's, too many variables to be able to predict, come here expecting to complete your contract on the seat you were hired and if something else happens, then you just got lucky I guess

For years now I have been reading Internet experts predictions of six months left before our contracts are canceled so dust your resumes, That goes to show that in aviation the future is difficult to predict

[gomets]

I think it was in the "Japan outlook" thread that someone states that it appears that they are slowly winding this experiment down and closing shop....

And that it was time to dust off the resume..


Question:

1)Is there any hint of downsizing or was that just someone being frustrated at how things are due to the merger?

2) Is most of the flying now relegated to the cargo ops and flying the backside of the clock? (I am not too concerned about flying pax or not, but curious where the company and contract guys are headed.)

I have a stable job, just not a place I want to spend a career. And from the outside the contract gig looks good. Plus it would be nice to finally get into a plane I can stand up in. Not too mention the international experience etc...Just don't want to screw our family by leaving a stable job for something that will end in a year or two..(assuming I can even get an interview of course!!)

BTW the ANA gig would be a nice pay raise. Family is fine with the work days/time off.. And I'm used to commuting home a very long distance..just don't want to end up on the street because of it...

[The Dominican]

Ever since the beginning of the original AJX (before the separation of the two companies, AJX and AJV) and now through the re integration of the two operations, I'm talking close to 15 years that this particular gig has been around there has always been some Internet pundit predicting the end. ANA is making profits left and right and the passengers and cargo numbers are back to pre earthquake levels if not higher, they have a lot of A/C's on order and a recruiting deficit into both mainline and the subsidiaries with very high attrition due to retirements. What we are concerned about is not if the job will be here tomorrow but how will it look tomorrow, I think the days of two night layovers in exotic destinations is over and this will become just another one of the many other contracts out there that are minimum rest, back of the clock mostly, nickle pinching (specially with the introduction of the LCC's next year) jobs out there and most likely (and this is my opinion only) a cargo only operation once the LCC's start covering some of the international flying. I cannot tell you how much I hope that I am wrong

Besides there are more opportunities now on the international market that there have ever been, by no means I'm telling you to leave a stable job and come here or even to jump into the contract arena, I cannot give you such guarantees when I don't even know how it will work out for me, none of us can tell you what the future holds, none of us. All I'm saying is that in the unlikely event that I find myself on the market again, I'm not too concerned about lack of opportunities.

I'll tell you something about Pprune though, you will be more confused and unsure after you get several replies to your questions than you were before you asked them, that I can guarantee

[gomets]

Did they cancel the class because not enough guys passed the interview or did they not get enough qual. applicants from the hiring firms?

As far as the medical .... I passed a US ARMY flight Physical last year (not the MEPS general physical, but the actual travel to the ARMY base and visit multiple buildings for eye, blood, and physical...took every bit of all day).. I assume the tests are pretty similar? Anyone know if that is true or pretty close?



I tried e-mailing CREW last week and also tried calling them twice yesterday.....I'm under the assumption they don't man the office at all times? Or has anyone else had problems getting in touch with them for general app. questions?

I'm gonna start tackling the Autobiography soon and don't know if there is a spot for it OR do I do a Word document and upload it into the "Documents" and "Logbook" section?

So many questions, so little knowledge... All I know is I think I'd look forward to working out of Japan.. It is one of the countries I've always wanted to visit and learn about.

[bringbackthe80s]

https://tbe.taleo.net/NA7/ats/career...S&cws=2&rid=15

there you go, you need the 250 hrs PIC.

[gomets]

I've started reading through this entire thread to get as much info as possible...

Sometime in 2008 it appeared they had a fairly high wash out rate. And others were passing the interview only to be told there were others with higher "scores"... I'm assuming that was mostly Captains and mainly due to the large amounts of pilots applying and being well qualified? Is that mostly accurate?


Were there any instances of FO's passing all the inteviews and getting told "no thanks"?

I'm sure times have changed since that was more than 3 years ago..(an eternity in aviation)

[gomets]

FLYCOLD,

The way I've always read it, and it's just here in the US....If you have three stripes on your shoulders (or are not called Captain in the FBO's) you're only able to log those hours as SIC. I've never logged 1 hour of time in the regionals other than SIC time. Even though I flew every other leg. Some guys will try to log PIC time if the Captain gets up to use the lav.. That won't work either. You have to be signing off for the flight to be considered PIC (here in the US.)

In the charter world it's a bit different. Some guys will log PIC time if they are flying and it is an empty leg (not pt. 135). But they better make sure they have a PIC type rating for that a/c.....

If I was hired by ANA, and even with the 767 command type. I'd never consider logging any time other the SIC...

I'd say call a recruiter to find out what is considered acceptable. It wouldn't look to good if you got an interview and had to explain why you have x amount of time logged but were considered an SIC by your company.

[bringbackthe80s]

Ya,it sounds right actually..either you fly around on a 152 or wait until you get the command at your current company and take it from there.
It was quite some time ago but I heard of someone having to do some xcountry flying in a piper after starting the contract to comply with the minima...

[gomets]

Wow, having to fly around in a piper to get the time!! I've got to say the laws of supply and demand were strong on that one!

It's crazy to look at how things change year to year... One year someone could have walked onto a company, the next you need a shuttle rating (not necessarily ANA just in general) 10-15 years ago we all (in the US) could have walked onto SWA, now it's like winning a lottery ticket (lottery is a game here in the US that gives you about a 1:10,000,000 chance of winning).

But in the end, it's all worth it. Not a day goes by I remember that working a normal 9-5 is quite boring!!

[The Dominican]

They are very strict here on regards to the minimums, if you are missing 1 hour you might as well be missing 100 hours, you simply don't meet the minimums.

Only time where you are actually in command of the flight is what they are looking for, in many of these jobs in the international market they won't accept even cruise captain time and you are typed and trained to be in the left seat while the captain is at rest, go figure.

[Fratemate]

Got to agree with TD here. I asked the question in the office yesterday and it is PIC time they want and not PICU/S. In fact the vast majority of the Japanese pilots I've spoken to don't even know what PICU/S is. As we know, they are very black and white, so how can someone claim PIC hours when he is not PIC? We know the answer but that does not compute with the Japanese mind

It is true that a guy started the course and then had to leave the Company because he did not have the necessary 100 cross country PIC hours. He'd done the type rating and his shortfall was picked up during his pre-ATPL check ride log book inspection. He'd been flying as a 744 FO for a large Asian carrier, so I rather suspect he had his fair share of cross country flying. However, common sense did not prevail and, because he hadn't specifically stated which hours were cross country and which weren't, he did not qualify for the issue of a JCAB ATPL in the eyes of the AJV management. To give him his due, he went away to the US, got his cross country hours up by bogging around in a Cessna and then re-joined the company, starting again from day one

What this question does highlight is the disparity between countries when issuing an ICAO ATPL, as required for the job. Some countries will accept PICU/S time for the issue, while others won't. Some countries accept PICU/S in the logbook after the issue of an ATPL, others don't. Some countries don't recognise PICU/S at all. Isn't it nice to see a common standard applied to a common (ICAO) licence

[bringbackthe80s]

Since we are talking about it..let's say you are an airline capt. already (so you have the 250 hrs PIC), the PIC time with the airline also counts as xcountry PIC time right?

I'm asking because I didn't understand what you meant Fratemate when you talk about this guy who didn't differentiate which hrs are xcountry and which aren't..I would guess they consider airline time as xcountry time right?

[The Dominican]

In my humble opinion, like FAA "250 hrs as a PIC or as SIC performing the duties of PIC while under the supervision of a PIC" is more practical and reasonable for ATP.

That standard is only really used in the US, as I said before most places (CAA) abroad won't recognize any time that is not the time where you are in charge and responsible (signing the logbook) as PIC, whether you and I agree with it or think that it makes more sense any other way is irrelevant. Also make sure that the time you spent in line training as a captain for an airline (I.O.E. in the US) is placed as dual received and not as PIC time since the PIC is really your check airman (RTC) he is the one signing the book and even if for all practical purposes you are in the left seat, typed in the A/C and performing the captain's duties, it is still not recognized by most CAA's as PIC time.
Making sure that all your times are accurate and separated into the different classifications that they want is the most laborious part of the application process and there will be no way around it, as I remember I spent a few days of accounting in my logbooks getting all these classifications separated before I could send my application but it was worth it because in all the logbook inspections (they are inspected during your initial application, then inspected again during your training) they never came back to me for some clarification as they do with some guys (is not that there was anything wrong with these folks logbooks, it is just that all the boxes need to be ticked) So use caution! sorry, just had to throw that in there

[bringbackthe80s]

Flycold with all due respect, if you are arguing this then it means you have yet a lot to learn about Japan