Air Japan (AJX) B767
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Hello Flycold
You must have misunderstood that I was trying to teach you JCAB's or even ICAO regulatory compliance, or explaining to you the legal definition of PIC (hence the unsolicited resume) I'm not arguing against your point or even saying that complying with one of their minimums by renting a cherokee is productive, what I'm trying to explain to you is from a cultural point of view (and company culture as well) wether I think that somebody has to rent a single engine for three hours just to tick a box is productive or not is irrelevant. I can bring the secretary of transportation of the United States to explain to them what PIC means in the US and that will also be irrelevant. It is like burgerking, they are going to have it their way.
Let us know if you have any other questions
You must have misunderstood that I was trying to teach you JCAB's or even ICAO regulatory compliance, or explaining to you the legal definition of PIC (hence the unsolicited resume) I'm not arguing against your point or even saying that complying with one of their minimums by renting a cherokee is productive, what I'm trying to explain to you is from a cultural point of view (and company culture as well) wether I think that somebody has to rent a single engine for three hours just to tick a box is productive or not is irrelevant. I can bring the secretary of transportation of the United States to explain to them what PIC means in the US and that will also be irrelevant. It is like burgerking, they are going to have it their way.
Let us know if you have any other questions
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Trying to be as "outside the box" as possible...
I would think if someone really needs to conjure up or justify a mere 250 hrs. PIC time, maybe they aren't quite ready for a 767 international...Not to be a daft prick, but 250 hrs PIC, whether it be piston or turbine, is not really that much time in the first place...In the flying I come from there is no such thing as acting PIC while being monitored as PIC.. Either you have final authority or you don't.
You could have 10,000 hrs piston, 9900 PIC X-country piston. Meet the minimums for FO but are ya really gonna be competative... IMO, a job as a SIC on a 767 is a 5000 turbine 1000turbine PIC type job.... I think spending 5-10 years or so on a smaller jet is at the very least a pre-requisite. If we have to argue the semantics of a few hrs PIC on a Piper, then supply and demand is definitely in favor of the pilots. I don't think we're at that point yet!!
I know there may be alot of guys in Europe or Asia that are on heavy equipment by 3000 hrs.. It just doesn't happen anymore in the US.
Just my opinion. I'd apply anyways, but argueing whether PIC time as a monitored SIC doesn't hold much weight in the flying world I come from..
I would think if someone really needs to conjure up or justify a mere 250 hrs. PIC time, maybe they aren't quite ready for a 767 international...Not to be a daft prick, but 250 hrs PIC, whether it be piston or turbine, is not really that much time in the first place...In the flying I come from there is no such thing as acting PIC while being monitored as PIC.. Either you have final authority or you don't.
You could have 10,000 hrs piston, 9900 PIC X-country piston. Meet the minimums for FO but are ya really gonna be competative... IMO, a job as a SIC on a 767 is a 5000 turbine 1000turbine PIC type job.... I think spending 5-10 years or so on a smaller jet is at the very least a pre-requisite. If we have to argue the semantics of a few hrs PIC on a Piper, then supply and demand is definitely in favor of the pilots. I don't think we're at that point yet!!
I know there may be alot of guys in Europe or Asia that are on heavy equipment by 3000 hrs.. It just doesn't happen anymore in the US.
Just my opinion. I'd apply anyways, but argueing whether PIC time as a monitored SIC doesn't hold much weight in the flying world I come from..
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flycold,
Dom and the others are only trying to help. With the attitude that you are showing on this thread I would think it would be best if you forget about AJX as you would not last.
Dom and the others are only trying to help. With the attitude that you are showing on this thread I would think it would be best if you forget about AJX as you would not last.
Join Date: Nov 2008
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Bringback,
Yes, mate, you're correct, all that time will count as cross country. The trouble for the guy in question is that he'd never logged cross country time because it wasn't required in any of his country's documentation. When he came to AJV (as it was then) he mucked around trying to come up with figure but that obviously didn't work. As Mr Dominican has correctly said, in spite of Flycold's rudeness, it is far, far better to get your hours sorted out before applying because they are going to be looked at twice again before you go for your ATPL check.
The cross country time is just silly because, basically, any time outside the circuit is going to be cross country (I can think of only one country that actually defines cross country and I think that is beyond 7nms of the airport). So, when it comes to totting up those hours, all that PIC time spent outside the circuit is going to count.
As for the semantics of PIC versus PICU/S, well the US does it one way, Oz does it another, France does it differently again but all that is irrelevant to the Japanese. They don't recognise PICU/S, so to answer the original question, all PIC time has to be PIC and not U/S.
the PIC time with the airline also counts as xcountry PIC time right?
I'm asking because I didn't understand what you meant Fratemate when you talk about this guy who didn't differentiate which hrs are xcountry and which aren't..I would guess they consider airline time as xcountry time right?
I'm asking because I didn't understand what you meant Fratemate when you talk about this guy who didn't differentiate which hrs are xcountry and which aren't..I would guess they consider airline time as xcountry time right?
The cross country time is just silly because, basically, any time outside the circuit is going to be cross country (I can think of only one country that actually defines cross country and I think that is beyond 7nms of the airport). So, when it comes to totting up those hours, all that PIC time spent outside the circuit is going to count.
As for the semantics of PIC versus PICU/S, well the US does it one way, Oz does it another, France does it differently again but all that is irrelevant to the Japanese. They don't recognise PICU/S, so to answer the original question, all PIC time has to be PIC and not U/S.
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Gomets,
The first two medicals are the worst and then they relax a bit. The first one will be your screening medical. This is a test to JCAB standards but is actually a Company medical, so does not count as your ATPL Class 1. Once you've done all your training and passed your ATPL check you'll do another medical. Pretty much a repeat of the first one (including EEG, chest xray etc) even though you might have done all that stuff recently but this time it IS for your JCAB Class 1. After that it's a lovely visit to the doc every 6 months but then you don't get EEGs etc done.
The Army medical will be very similar to the JCAB ones. They'll do the normal urine test and take blood for the vampires to look at. They'll do weight and height, work out your BMI and tell you it's too high, no matter what it says. They do seem to be unnecessarily obsessed with eyes, so you'll spend a fair amount of time doing the normal near/far tests, blowing air in your eyes, field of vision tests etc. This will be done by a nurse and then the eye doc will have a closer look at your retinas etc and check you've got nice, healthy peepers. The hearing test is the normal type of pressing the button when you hear the tones. They always do an ECG but there's not too much you can do about that. They managed to find my brain for the EEG, so I reckon anyone can pass it if I can (but you won't do this after the first 2 medicals). Chest Xray is a no-brainer. They tried to do another one of these 6 months after my 2nd one and I told them to poke it. After the normal 'eeeeey' noises they agreed it wasn't really necessary and after a few of my colleagues did the same, it would seem they don't zap you as often any more. After all that it's off to see the Doc for the general prodding, saying 'aahhh' and having your stomach palpated etc. The initial medicals will involve balance tests and there is one Narita doc who likes to do these as well (I think the Tokyo clinic does them each time, too). Normally this will involve marching on the spot with your eyes closed and he checks you don't wander outside the circle. There is another one where you stand up with your eyes closed and then you have to stand on one leg with your arms outstretched. I don't know what the limits are but I'm sure there's a fair bit of hopping around and semi-falling over involved. The Tokyo clinic has a balance plate that you stand on and it can measure your body's inputs to keep you in one spot....far too bloody technical if you ask me! Not all the docs bother with this nonsense but you will get it one your 2 initial checks.
That's it really. In answer to your original question, yes, it is similar to the military medicals where you wander from expert to expert to check your various bits are working. Clearly there's not too much you can do apart from not getting on the piss the night before and not eating too many pies, so your BMI is in limits. While on that subject, JCAB uses 30 as their max. Any more than that and it's stress ECG time on the treadmill, rather than just a normal ECG. The Company uses 28 as their max for employment, so it's probably best to make sure that you're skinny enough to make that
As far as the medical .... I passed a US ARMY flight Physical last year (not the MEPS general physical, but the actual travel to the ARMY base and visit multiple buildings for eye, blood, and physical...took every bit of all day).. I assume the tests are pretty similar? Anyone know if that is true or pretty close?
The Army medical will be very similar to the JCAB ones. They'll do the normal urine test and take blood for the vampires to look at. They'll do weight and height, work out your BMI and tell you it's too high, no matter what it says. They do seem to be unnecessarily obsessed with eyes, so you'll spend a fair amount of time doing the normal near/far tests, blowing air in your eyes, field of vision tests etc. This will be done by a nurse and then the eye doc will have a closer look at your retinas etc and check you've got nice, healthy peepers. The hearing test is the normal type of pressing the button when you hear the tones. They always do an ECG but there's not too much you can do about that. They managed to find my brain for the EEG, so I reckon anyone can pass it if I can (but you won't do this after the first 2 medicals). Chest Xray is a no-brainer. They tried to do another one of these 6 months after my 2nd one and I told them to poke it. After the normal 'eeeeey' noises they agreed it wasn't really necessary and after a few of my colleagues did the same, it would seem they don't zap you as often any more. After all that it's off to see the Doc for the general prodding, saying 'aahhh' and having your stomach palpated etc. The initial medicals will involve balance tests and there is one Narita doc who likes to do these as well (I think the Tokyo clinic does them each time, too). Normally this will involve marching on the spot with your eyes closed and he checks you don't wander outside the circle. There is another one where you stand up with your eyes closed and then you have to stand on one leg with your arms outstretched. I don't know what the limits are but I'm sure there's a fair bit of hopping around and semi-falling over involved. The Tokyo clinic has a balance plate that you stand on and it can measure your body's inputs to keep you in one spot....far too bloody technical if you ask me! Not all the docs bother with this nonsense but you will get it one your 2 initial checks.
That's it really. In answer to your original question, yes, it is similar to the military medicals where you wander from expert to expert to check your various bits are working. Clearly there's not too much you can do apart from not getting on the piss the night before and not eating too many pies, so your BMI is in limits. While on that subject, JCAB uses 30 as their max. Any more than that and it's stress ECG time on the treadmill, rather than just a normal ECG. The Company uses 28 as their max for employment, so it's probably best to make sure that you're skinny enough to make that
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@gomets
And I would speculate that ANA agrees with you since that is the lowest level of experience that I have seen on our F/O's, many of them met the DEC minimums but were offered F/O positions instead. Not trying to be discouraging, is just the way it is.
Meet the minimums for FO but are ya really gonna be competative... IMO, a job as a SIC on a 767 is a 5000 turbine 1000turbine PIC type job.... I think spending 5-10 years or so on a smaller jet is at the very least a pre-requisite
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cool, thanks Fratemate. So you basically have to divide the hrs yourself before starting.. because on my JAA logbook there is no space to log xcountry hrs as such, it is something I would have to calculate myself..sounds complicated already!!
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I have had a couple of European FO's have me sign their logbook (I am not an instructor) and they logged the time as PIC under supervision, so the standard does exist in some other countries as well. BTW this was their personal logbooks, and not the company logbooks for the current job (Vietnam). I don't know anything about JAA regs or their home country licensing requirements.
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BTW this was their personal logbooks, and not the company logbooks for the current job
Last edited by The Dominican; 4th Sep 2011 at 09:28.
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Well, the guy you guys are talking about getting some more PIC time in a Piper was an ab initio pilot for a major Asian carrier, from what I hear. He had a crap load of SIC hours on the 744 but didn't have the minimum PIC time of whatever they needed (100 hrs.?) due to being an ab initio guy. I think he was a few hours short. And yes, they are that anal about the flight time requirements as well of other things. If you're even a few MINUTES short of minimums, you're "disqualified." And that's just the tip of the iceberg. I could write a dissertation about this place, but I'll just stop here. Good luck everyone.
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Ive been looking at this gig for a while and wonder if anyone commutes from Europe. If so do you use stby or the full business ticket return?
Secondly having looked at the different agencies, are they all offering 12 days off WITH the ability to bolt on 2 leave days each month, because some are leaving it a bit vague.
How did you approach detailing 1000's of hours as x-country. Did you sign off each page as a x-country or get your company to write as such in their letter of confirmation wrt to your hours ?
And does anyone know when the next courses are being scheduled?
Cheers
Jb.
Secondly having looked at the different agencies, are they all offering 12 days off WITH the ability to bolt on 2 leave days each month, because some are leaving it a bit vague.
How did you approach detailing 1000's of hours as x-country. Did you sign off each page as a x-country or get your company to write as such in their letter of confirmation wrt to your hours ?
And does anyone know when the next courses are being scheduled?
Cheers
Jb.
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commutes from Europe. If so do you use stby or the full business ticket return?
Secondly having looked at the different agencies, are they all offering 12 days off WITH the ability to bolt on 2 leave days each month, because some are leaving it a bit vague.
How did you approach detailing 1000's of hours as x-country. Did you sign off each page as a x-country or get your company to write as such in their letter of confirmation wrt to your hours ?
And does anyone know when the next courses are being scheduled?
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Regarding to 100 PIC x-country time
According to an agency's website, 250 PIC time with 100 PIC x-country is mandatory.
May I ask what is the definition of x-country in Japan? Most of the countries I know define it as flight over 25nm from origin airport with one landing other than the origin airport.
Regarding to the 250 PIC time, is it really mandatory? If applied to the guy with tons of 744 SIC hours who was short of 100 PIC x-country hours, that would mean he did like 150+ hours of PIC time within 25nm around the airport, which doesn't really make sense.
Many thanks!
May I ask what is the definition of x-country in Japan? Most of the countries I know define it as flight over 25nm from origin airport with one landing other than the origin airport.
Regarding to the 250 PIC time, is it really mandatory? If applied to the guy with tons of 744 SIC hours who was short of 100 PIC x-country hours, that would mean he did like 150+ hours of PIC time within 25nm around the airport, which doesn't really make sense.
Many thanks!
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Heard that they have lost 21 pilots this year. 9 have joined this year, so far only 3 of the 9 have completed training to the line.
not ideal for a company intent on growth!
not ideal for a company intent on growth!
Join Date: Nov 2008
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21?? Where did you get those numbers from? I can get to 12 if I include the 6 over-60 ANA guys (who will obviously be replaced by some more no-freight, no-night, nothing-nasty, 'wonder boys') and a couple of fence-sitters but I reckon 21 is way off the mark.
Heard they may be up to 2 for the Jan course.....that should make everything better
Heard they may be up to 2 for the Jan course.....that should make everything better
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The Dom - thanks for your info.
To all the Air Japan guys, has the merger process smoothed out and has your lifestyle become less pained. Having gone through this thread it did seem as though there have been teething problems in merging the cargo and pax operations. In a nutshell have things improved to the point you would still recommend this gig.
Jb
To all the Air Japan guys, has the merger process smoothed out and has your lifestyle become less pained. Having gone through this thread it did seem as though there have been teething problems in merging the cargo and pax operations. In a nutshell have things improved to the point you would still recommend this gig.
Jb
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hi,
I see that there is now up to 14 off days in a month for commuting. Are things getting slightly better?
And regarding the upgrade; is that in a contract or they just say this so it attracts more candidates?
Cheers,
A
I see that there is now up to 14 off days in a month for commuting. Are things getting slightly better?
And regarding the upgrade; is that in a contract or they just say this so it attracts more candidates?
Cheers,
A
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@alkor
Until the company decides to stablish an electronic based pairing and scheduling system that distributes the flying equaly, reduces fatigue and increases productivity, things will not improve.
yes, you are able to take up to 14 days in a row but commuting is on your time.
There is an active upgrade program but there are no guarantees, some folks get bypassed
Until the company decides to stablish an electronic based pairing and scheduling system that distributes the flying equaly, reduces fatigue and increases productivity, things will not improve.
yes, you are able to take up to 14 days in a row but commuting is on your time.
There is an active upgrade program but there are no guarantees, some folks get bypassed