Air Japan (AJX) B767
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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Wow... all 4. 
What did they miss, if you don't mind saying, so that those of us thinking of coming over won't repeat the mistake?
If all 4 had the same problem, seems it would be more of a training issue?
Very interested to hear more...
Glad at least 2 of them made it through the course.
What did they miss, if you don't mind saying, so that those of us thinking of coming over won't repeat the mistake?
If all 4 had the same problem, seems it would be more of a training issue?
Very interested to hear more...
Glad at least 2 of them made it through the course.
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: europe
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interesting to hear about the fail rate. Sorry for the guys that did not pass.Hopefully the facts about why they failed will be passed on to upcoming crew later so they dont make the same mistakes.
I mean flying is not exactly rocket science...
how difficult can it be??
cheers
I mean flying is not exactly rocket science...
how difficult can it be??cheers
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Over the hill and far away
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From what I have heard from a few friends flying over there, the course before the 4, there were 2 cpts who failed the JCAB ride and one of them was allowed a recheck. Also, I think they said there were a couple more who were let go during training as well. That puts the failure rate at around 60 or so percent for this year. But don't quote me on it.
What I can deduce from reading various posts and talking to the guys over there, it's not that the training is overly hard - yes it is long and demanding and a lot of pilots have gone through it - but the real problem lies in the communication, culture barriers, and politics within the company. I spent many years in that part of the world and I can personally tell you guys that it is very, very political out here. If they want you gone, they can and will find a reason for it. It doesn't matter how good of a pilot you are. Of course, not having a union representation doesn't help either.
I thought about sending my stuff in, but decided against it a while back. The money's actually better than my current job at a legacy carrier in the US, but it seems like a crap shoot coming over here - with all the politics and all (although the new confirmation of confirmed business class and a couple grand raise/month sounds tempting). But......naaaah, I'll stay where I'm at not and hope the damn management don't take away my retirement.
For all the guys out there currently in training, best of wishes and good luck. And watch your back...seriously (you're not in NA, Aus, or Europe anymore)
What I can deduce from reading various posts and talking to the guys over there, it's not that the training is overly hard - yes it is long and demanding and a lot of pilots have gone through it - but the real problem lies in the communication, culture barriers, and politics within the company. I spent many years in that part of the world and I can personally tell you guys that it is very, very political out here. If they want you gone, they can and will find a reason for it. It doesn't matter how good of a pilot you are. Of course, not having a union representation doesn't help either.
I thought about sending my stuff in, but decided against it a while back. The money's actually better than my current job at a legacy carrier in the US, but it seems like a crap shoot coming over here - with all the politics and all (although the new confirmation of confirmed business class and a couple grand raise/month sounds tempting). But......naaaah, I'll stay where I'm at not and hope the damn management don't take away my retirement.
For all the guys out there currently in training, best of wishes and good luck. And watch your back...seriously (you're not in NA, Aus, or Europe anymore)
Join Date: Sep 2006
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Thanks for the information about working in this part of the world.
I have been working in Asia for the last 7 years and have so far loooked at it as a very smooth ride.The dogma is always; sit down in the boat,do not make any wakes,,,,: if you want to discuss anything wait until you see yourself in the mirror back home and then start the conversation.
Not difficult ,just take an extra breath before you say something.Like it or you are gone
simple as that,no room for discussion.
On line its another ball game,same as anywhere,enjoy life and the good beer/wine where ever you go.
take care mates
I have been working in Asia for the last 7 years and have so far loooked at it as a very smooth ride.The dogma is always; sit down in the boat,do not make any wakes,,,,: if you want to discuss anything wait until you see yourself in the mirror back home and then start the conversation.
Not difficult ,just take an extra breath before you say something.Like it or you are gone
simple as that,no room for discussion.On line its another ball game,same as anywhere,enjoy life and the good beer/wine where ever you go.
take care mates
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Tokyo
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I have to respectfully disagree with Cpt Doe, ANA training is not that political and is not a back stabbing enviroment. The instructors will do all that they can to keep you in the program.
If you asked 10 guys about their training you'd get 10 different answers, some guys are drinking beer hanging out in rappongi and others need to be on a suicide watch.
The opportunity to resit a sim check is dependent on your overall performance, if you've struggled all the way then you won't get a second ride. If you screwded on the day but overall you had done well they'll stay with you.
Of course you have to be able to adapt to ANA procedures, they are not too different than anywhere else. Like any airline they want everyone to be standard.
One more point; don't expect a back slapping cheer if you do a good sim ride, they are humble people that don't hand out praise. The best thing that can ever be said to you is, "I have no comment to make" or if you're really on fire " ready for check"
Gambate ne
If you asked 10 guys about their training you'd get 10 different answers, some guys are drinking beer hanging out in rappongi and others need to be on a suicide watch.
The opportunity to resit a sim check is dependent on your overall performance, if you've struggled all the way then you won't get a second ride. If you screwded on the day but overall you had done well they'll stay with you.
Of course you have to be able to adapt to ANA procedures, they are not too different than anywhere else. Like any airline they want everyone to be standard.
One more point; don't expect a back slapping cheer if you do a good sim ride, they are humble people that don't hand out praise. The best thing that can ever be said to you is, "I have no comment to make" or if you're really on fire " ready for check"
Gambate ne
Join Date: Dec 2006
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Meguro, I was not specifically targeting ANA, but overall "politics" in Japan. And every company -whether it be in Japan or in the States has some sort of "shady politics" going on. You cannot deny that - if you do, you've drank too much cool-aid. I'm sure the training is similar to other airlines as well as the instructors who hold the candidates to very high standards - and the ANA instructors are top notch from what I hear. Just wanted to clarify that I wasn't pointing fingers specifically at ANA.
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Millsburg, AR
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Joebear,
I've been reading your post on this forum and PPW in my quest for information on ANA. Your post, as well as others, have been helpful and I very much appreciate your feedback. With that being said, care to elaborate on your last post?
I've been reading your post on this forum and PPW in my quest for information on ANA. Your post, as well as others, have been helpful and I very much appreciate your feedback. With that being said, care to elaborate on your last post?
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Jetjock?
If you are interested in ANA follow up your application and come to Japan to check it out.
The group that are generally most successfull are non rated FO's. That is partly their youth and the extra sim time as opposed to being already rated. The most unseccessful group are type rated Captains! This may seem surprising on the surface. What type of aircraft are you coming from?
Aji to gohan onegaishimasu
If you are interested in ANA follow up your application and come to Japan to check it out.
The group that are generally most successfull are non rated FO's. That is partly their youth and the extra sim time as opposed to being already rated. The most unseccessful group are type rated Captains! This may seem surprising on the surface. What type of aircraft are you coming from?
Aji to gohan onegaishimasu
Join Date: Oct 2006
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some guys are drinking beer hanging out in rappongi and others need to be on a suicide watch.
Training over here as Meguro said is not overly difficult but it is an endurance race (a marathon, not a sprint) On bad progress check or a couple of bad sims is not going to do it as long as you show progress the next time around. One important thing is that they don't want to hear Why you do this that way or the other? You see, ANA has the safety record that tells them their system works and that their procedures are at the base of this safety record (I don't disagree) Like meguro said, type rated experienced drivers some times have a tough time letting go of "their way" of doing things. Up to a point, I'm glad that I didn't have any time on the thing because that way I had no conflict but instead just learned it the way I was taught. It is a good feeling to be done, that's for sure
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Meguro,
Thanks for your feedback. To answer your question, I'm typed in (and currently flying) the aircraft and would be applying for a Captain position. I'm curious as to why that is the most unsuccessful group. Is it because many are to set in their ways? Is it attitudes?
As aviators we are taught to access and manage risk. Giving up my current position and coming to Japan would be a risky move. One that I would not be willing to make if I didn't feel that I had a good chance of completing training as well as fitting into the program.
Thanks again to everyone for their input.
Thanks for your feedback. To answer your question, I'm typed in (and currently flying) the aircraft and would be applying for a Captain position. I'm curious as to why that is the most unsuccessful group. Is it because many are to set in their ways? Is it attitudes?
As aviators we are taught to access and manage risk. Giving up my current position and coming to Japan would be a risky move. One that I would not be willing to make if I didn't feel that I had a good chance of completing training as well as fitting into the program.
Thanks again to everyone for their input.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Jet Jock,
Like I suggested earlier, come over and take the sim ride evaluation, that will give you a bit of a taste of what it's like.
It would appear that older guys have had the problems. But remember some guys that fail the CAB check are retrained and restested. But, guys who have struggled along the way win second prize.
There is one undeniable fact the ANA staff will do all that they can to keep you in the program. They are incapable of making an individual decision, so it's all done by an invisible committee when there's a scrub.
Turning off the control hydraulics to see if you can duplicate the Iowa accident will win second prize.
Arguing with the instuctors will be like playing Kplunk, you'll eventually run out of marbles.
Flying on one engine at 300ft with the autopilot engaged waching it accelerate to 250 kts and gently descend will also win second prize.
After 10 take offs with V1 failures and ten crashed, he went on to fail his first CAB test, he was retested and was happily flying the line until he took another job. It's not that bad really.
Like I suggested earlier, come over and take the sim ride evaluation, that will give you a bit of a taste of what it's like.
It would appear that older guys have had the problems. But remember some guys that fail the CAB check are retrained and restested. But, guys who have struggled along the way win second prize.
There is one undeniable fact the ANA staff will do all that they can to keep you in the program. They are incapable of making an individual decision, so it's all done by an invisible committee when there's a scrub.
Turning off the control hydraulics to see if you can duplicate the Iowa accident will win second prize.
Arguing with the instuctors will be like playing Kplunk, you'll eventually run out of marbles.
Flying on one engine at 300ft with the autopilot engaged waching it accelerate to 250 kts and gently descend will also win second prize.
After 10 take offs with V1 failures and ten crashed, he went on to fail his first CAB test, he was retested and was happily flying the line until he took another job. It's not that bad really.
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We met some of the Captains on the last course that had the failures.
Those that failed were knobs and probably would have failed at any of the Japanese carriers, not just at AJV / AJX
Those that failed were knobs and probably would have failed at any of the Japanese carriers, not just at AJV / AJX
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meguro
" They are incapable of making an individual decision, so it's all done by an invisible committee when there's a scrub."
Probably one of the most insightful comments regarding flying in Japan (and the society in general) I've seen in quite a while.
" They are incapable of making an individual decision, so it's all done by an invisible committee when there's a scrub."
Probably one of the most insightful comments regarding flying in Japan (and the society in general) I've seen in quite a while.
Join Date: Feb 2002
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what procedures?
just wondering if anyone with insight could give an example on the frequently mentioned "japanese procedures"!
maybe compare a specific procedure with the one you were used to from your previous OM.
some airlines really keep you from focusing on flying the machine.....
maybe compare a specific procedure with the one you were used to from your previous OM.
some airlines really keep you from focusing on flying the machine.....
Join Date: Jan 2005
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I don't know, I'm sure the training curriculum is different, but I'm studying the material they sent me for the interview sim check and it's pretty straightforward, other than a bit out of order to study easily (I had to rewrite it for myself in a flow pattern so I could make sense of it better - probably just the way my brain memorizes data).
The two things I noted that seemed odd is:
1. There aren't any "standard callouts" included in the packet, other than when to select specific modes on the FCP and when to call for the checklists and a few things like Time C'K or Distance C'K (which I'm assuming means check and is an actual verbal callout, can't tell by the way it's written).
2. There isn't really a discussion on how to manage the automation and FCP which is a bit difficult initially. They talk about setting up manual mode tuning then returning to auto-tune on the PF side, and manual mode tuning and leaving it in manual on the PNF side for the VOR approach but don't tell you how you would do this. I'm guessing that they expect you to instruct your PNF to do these things verbally, and let him do it, but that's just a guess, I haven't emailed anyone there I know to verify yet.
I'm lucky in that I have my dad to ask questions. The last plane he flew was the 767 so he has his books and cockpit layout in color and was able to brief me on general switch location, panel locations, and a few specifics such as use of LNAV and VNAV and FLCH (the 717 I flew is basically a MD-11 avionics setup and the CRJ is actually closer in FCP use than the 717).
The procedures themselves seem pretty straightforward, just a lot of study to make sure I get the calls done at the right time in the right phraseology... 27 pages is a lot of data to memorize having never seen the plane.
The two things I noted that seemed odd is:
1. There aren't any "standard callouts" included in the packet, other than when to select specific modes on the FCP and when to call for the checklists and a few things like Time C'K or Distance C'K (which I'm assuming means check and is an actual verbal callout, can't tell by the way it's written).
2. There isn't really a discussion on how to manage the automation and FCP which is a bit difficult initially. They talk about setting up manual mode tuning then returning to auto-tune on the PF side, and manual mode tuning and leaving it in manual on the PNF side for the VOR approach but don't tell you how you would do this. I'm guessing that they expect you to instruct your PNF to do these things verbally, and let him do it, but that's just a guess, I haven't emailed anyone there I know to verify yet.
I'm lucky in that I have my dad to ask questions. The last plane he flew was the 767 so he has his books and cockpit layout in color and was able to brief me on general switch location, panel locations, and a few specifics such as use of LNAV and VNAV and FLCH (the 717 I flew is basically a MD-11 avionics setup and the CRJ is actually closer in FCP use than the 717).
The procedures themselves seem pretty straightforward, just a lot of study to make sure I get the calls done at the right time in the right phraseology... 27 pages is a lot of data to memorize having never seen the plane.
Join Date: Sep 2007
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Any AJX/V guys still around in Tokyo. I`m town for a few more days. Wordering if anybody would be up for a beer and a few questions. I`m thinking about getting my App in next spring.