Singaporean self-sponsored CPL holders - where are you?
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PW4000,
I would go through US flying school sites and other aviation sites to get a better grasp of what it takes to go from PPL to ATPL. If you don't get SQ cadet program, be prepared to go overseas to pursue your aviation career. This has been covered extensively in the last couple of pages of this thread already.
abangjohnny,
1) do u think i have the chance of joining sia or any top airlines considering my 4 O levels at one sitting and my soon-to-be-attained degree in engineering from NTU? im oredy 28 this year.
You have absolutely no chance of getting into SQ cadet program. You will be rejected at the first hurdle of the online application because of your D7 in Maths and 4 O levels. Sorry. BUT, apply anyway to confirm for yourself. www.singaporeair.com. Don't believe everything other people tell you, verify for yourself.
However, should you pursue your aviation career as most other pilots in the world do - self sponsored integrated or modular, you stand an equal chance of getting into any major airline someday.
2) should i continue to study for the cpl/ir with fatpl straight after my graduation from ntu, or just apply for the airlines? im at 100++ hrs of ppl now.
Apply for SQ cadet now and see what the response is. If rejected, you have to at the very least get CPL MEIR on your own before any commercial operation will look at you, or get instructor rating and be an instructor. Be prepared to fly light turboprops in bush areas to build hours.
I think we Singaporeans get the wrong impression that the path to the airlines is open immediately after CPL MEIR and 250hrs. This is only for airline sponsored cadets. This never happens almost anywhere else in the world. Temper your expectations and be prepared to instruct or be a bush pilot for your first 1k-2khrs, before any airline is going to pay for your type rating and put you in the right seat of a multi million dollar aircraft. If the demand for pilots is so great that you get the opportunity after only a few hundred hours of flying time, then thank your lucky stars and be grateful for the bonus.
3) does an O level failure and an ite graduate like me increase my chances of not getting a place in any airlines as i heard most airline pilots are jc A level holders with excellent grades and no failures?
It depends on the context.
If you're an experienced CPL with fATPL or ATPL, it makes no difference what your O levels were or that you are an ITE grad. They want you for your flying experience. Foreign airlines have so called school leavers that worked odd jobs to pay for their flying training and went step by step up the rungs to airline captain. I can't speak for SQ as the vast majority of the local pilots joined as cadets.
If you're trying to get into their cadet program, then it is definitely an obstacle as what else do they have to use as evaluation criteria? Also, they have so many applicants to choose from, so they can afford to be picky.
I would go through US flying school sites and other aviation sites to get a better grasp of what it takes to go from PPL to ATPL. If you don't get SQ cadet program, be prepared to go overseas to pursue your aviation career. This has been covered extensively in the last couple of pages of this thread already.
abangjohnny,
1) do u think i have the chance of joining sia or any top airlines considering my 4 O levels at one sitting and my soon-to-be-attained degree in engineering from NTU? im oredy 28 this year.
You have absolutely no chance of getting into SQ cadet program. You will be rejected at the first hurdle of the online application because of your D7 in Maths and 4 O levels. Sorry. BUT, apply anyway to confirm for yourself. www.singaporeair.com. Don't believe everything other people tell you, verify for yourself.
However, should you pursue your aviation career as most other pilots in the world do - self sponsored integrated or modular, you stand an equal chance of getting into any major airline someday.
2) should i continue to study for the cpl/ir with fatpl straight after my graduation from ntu, or just apply for the airlines? im at 100++ hrs of ppl now.
Apply for SQ cadet now and see what the response is. If rejected, you have to at the very least get CPL MEIR on your own before any commercial operation will look at you, or get instructor rating and be an instructor. Be prepared to fly light turboprops in bush areas to build hours.
I think we Singaporeans get the wrong impression that the path to the airlines is open immediately after CPL MEIR and 250hrs. This is only for airline sponsored cadets. This never happens almost anywhere else in the world. Temper your expectations and be prepared to instruct or be a bush pilot for your first 1k-2khrs, before any airline is going to pay for your type rating and put you in the right seat of a multi million dollar aircraft. If the demand for pilots is so great that you get the opportunity after only a few hundred hours of flying time, then thank your lucky stars and be grateful for the bonus.
3) does an O level failure and an ite graduate like me increase my chances of not getting a place in any airlines as i heard most airline pilots are jc A level holders with excellent grades and no failures?
It depends on the context.
If you're an experienced CPL with fATPL or ATPL, it makes no difference what your O levels were or that you are an ITE grad. They want you for your flying experience. Foreign airlines have so called school leavers that worked odd jobs to pay for their flying training and went step by step up the rungs to airline captain. I can't speak for SQ as the vast majority of the local pilots joined as cadets.
If you're trying to get into their cadet program, then it is definitely an obstacle as what else do they have to use as evaluation criteria? Also, they have so many applicants to choose from, so they can afford to be picky.
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Malaysian flight schools
I've decided to take up a CPL/IR + fATPL course in Malaysia and would like to have your informed opinions on the Malaysian flying schools.
Which of the schools are better organised?
Who has better flying and ground facilities?
Who have better reputations for good training and good pass rates?
What are their safety records?
How do you rate the quality of their instructors?
From reading their websites, it appears to me that MFA, HMA and APFT are the more established ones with better facilities, with HMA and APFT being more modern. What do you think?
In my previous enquiry with MFA, their waiting list for private students seem very long. What about HMA and APFT?
Of interest to me is also KLIFA, due to proximity with Singapore. How are they? I have an impression this school is still work in progress with facilities not quite on par with the others yet.
And GGIFA seems to have big plans with growing their school. Is it still very preliminary?
My goal after getting the CPL/IR is to take up a AFI course and subsequently hope to be employed as an instructor. The flying schools have a 150 hour PIC requirement for enrolling in their AFI course. Does the PIC hours within the 200 hours spent in CPL flight training count towards this 150 hour AFI course requirement?
Thanks a lot, your knowledge will help me a great deal in making the most suitable choice.
Which of the schools are better organised?
Who has better flying and ground facilities?
Who have better reputations for good training and good pass rates?
What are their safety records?
How do you rate the quality of their instructors?
From reading their websites, it appears to me that MFA, HMA and APFT are the more established ones with better facilities, with HMA and APFT being more modern. What do you think?
In my previous enquiry with MFA, their waiting list for private students seem very long. What about HMA and APFT?
Of interest to me is also KLIFA, due to proximity with Singapore. How are they? I have an impression this school is still work in progress with facilities not quite on par with the others yet.
And GGIFA seems to have big plans with growing their school. Is it still very preliminary?
My goal after getting the CPL/IR is to take up a AFI course and subsequently hope to be employed as an instructor. The flying schools have a 150 hour PIC requirement for enrolling in their AFI course. Does the PIC hours within the 200 hours spent in CPL flight training count towards this 150 hour AFI course requirement?
Thanks a lot, your knowledge will help me a great deal in making the most suitable choice.
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Hey Lookahead:
I should be doing the same as yourself, except that mine would be a conversion from an aussie licence. The wait times for all schools is very long, partly due to the fact that they are limited by law on the number of student intakes. MFA, HMA and APFT would be good choices I reckon, and you're right about KLIFA - they're still a WIP. In KLIFA, you do your PPL with them, then they send you elsewhere to do CPL/IR and ATPL (can't remember where, they're linked with another flight training organisation in Malaysia). GGIFA is a new player so its still unproven, I tried contacting them but real poor response, probably due to the fact that I'm doing conversion. Am on the waitlist for MFA and HMA at the moment, but I hope HMA comes first.
Oh and someone was asking about the 'O' Levels results with regards to SIA, it's not a company requirement, purely a CAAS rule that says to be a professional pilot you have to have all the 'O' requirements in one sitting. So even if you have a PHD or Masters like some guys who've applied before, if you miss out on even one of the 'O' requirement, CAAS will not issue you an ATPL. One way to get around this is to get an ATPL and flying experience elsewhere, then join SIA later on as direct entry, then you would only need to do the CAAS conversion papers. Either that or retake your 'O's in one sitting. Weird and disappointing I know, but that's bureaucracy for you..
I should be doing the same as yourself, except that mine would be a conversion from an aussie licence. The wait times for all schools is very long, partly due to the fact that they are limited by law on the number of student intakes. MFA, HMA and APFT would be good choices I reckon, and you're right about KLIFA - they're still a WIP. In KLIFA, you do your PPL with them, then they send you elsewhere to do CPL/IR and ATPL (can't remember where, they're linked with another flight training organisation in Malaysia). GGIFA is a new player so its still unproven, I tried contacting them but real poor response, probably due to the fact that I'm doing conversion. Am on the waitlist for MFA and HMA at the moment, but I hope HMA comes first.
Oh and someone was asking about the 'O' Levels results with regards to SIA, it's not a company requirement, purely a CAAS rule that says to be a professional pilot you have to have all the 'O' requirements in one sitting. So even if you have a PHD or Masters like some guys who've applied before, if you miss out on even one of the 'O' requirement, CAAS will not issue you an ATPL. One way to get around this is to get an ATPL and flying experience elsewhere, then join SIA later on as direct entry, then you would only need to do the CAAS conversion papers. Either that or retake your 'O's in one sitting. Weird and disappointing I know, but that's bureaucracy for you..
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Thanks Singapore001 for your useful insider info on HMA.
I know that the principal of KLIFA is leaving soon. Is it to GGIFA? If most of their instructors are leaving for GGIFA, may I know if KLIFA is having some internal problems?
The last time I talked to MFA (2 years ago), they seem to have a long waiting list for their CPL/IR + fATPL course. Is it still the case now?
As for the need to clock up 50 PIC hours after CPL training, is hiring an aircraft from a flying club the most straight-forward solution? What are their hiring rates, do you know?
I know that the principal of KLIFA is leaving soon. Is it to GGIFA? If most of their instructors are leaving for GGIFA, may I know if KLIFA is having some internal problems?
The last time I talked to MFA (2 years ago), they seem to have a long waiting list for their CPL/IR + fATPL course. Is it still the case now?
As for the need to clock up 50 PIC hours after CPL training, is hiring an aircraft from a flying club the most straight-forward solution? What are their hiring rates, do you know?
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Hi guys,
Its indeed awesome simply reading aviation enthusiasts from Singapore who,if not being able to penetrate into SQ or the works,have given a thought to self sponsor themselves...
I am a Singaporean and a self sponsored guy myself..To me SQ was and is never a priority..My priority was to simply fly and not the money and i don't need autopilots to make me happy..I just started flying for a company after a 3 year struggle with the weather in Canada and am simply loving my lifestyle now..I will definitely not have this kinda lifestyle if i were to be with SQ...So for those wanting to and have made a decision to go flying at their own expense...I will say,just go...and i also understand it highly when you all get scared of not landing up a job at the end of the day...Jobs,i can tell you guys out there,there are plenty...it is only up to you guys to relocate and work..I myself have relocated and am happily working and once in a while come back to Singapore for a holiday...So its fun..
And i have also read about some guys haveing mediocre O level results...Trust me guys,only in our Asian Region that this policy kinda exist..In north America,Africa or Middle East, for example, they don't get into the knitty gritty of this sort..
So,again,for those with 3 or 4 O Level passes,you guys really shouldn't be too worried...I have met Cooks,Drivers,Maintenance personnel and pple from all walks of life as well as guys with "awesome" school results becoming pilots so what usually smaller companies want is your flight experience and a good attitude,showing a high interest level in the job you will be doing,i.e., flying their aircraft and showing an ability to adapt in a new location..Because I have had interview Q's,such as :"How do you feel working in this country?"
And for those guys in general who are older in the age factor,if this makes you feel better,let me tell you about my instructor when i was training in Canada...He is a fine example of a guy who would have had all the odds against him if he was Singaporean..He was a cook with minimal education, no degree of that sort and he was 39 when he decided to get into flying...He was a divorced man with 3 young daughters...Imagine,if this guy can do it,anyone could..He is a british guy but an excellent individual..At that age,with 3 daughters to support at home,with minimal education,being a cook,everyone would think what is this guy thinking..But guess what,this is the same man,who is the Chief Pilot of a company,and he is a recruiting guy of this Oil and Gas company in Canada though he flies the King AIr 350 Turbo prop,he takes home an awesome pay and he is 55 years old now...when he told me his story,i felt good about myself all of a sudden because I am not young myelf...
So all in all,if you guys have 3 or 4 O level passes,don't let that hinder your chances of becoming what you want...You guys want to become pilots after all, not DOCTORS...and age,story told above...Fly with the dreams and just be willing to take any available job and don't think of the money...My first job by the way,if it makes you guys feel better too, was 600 US dollars a mth..It is one pathetic pay...trust me...but you will grow out of that when you get the hours..
Cheers guys and don't get disheartened because of your age or minimal O level results...Keep it going..You will feel down at times because you wud eventually need a job but yeah,if there was a way,we should start a new thread,just for Singaporean self sponsored guys,to update them about the various available jobs and openings for them but if this is possible....
Cheers Guys..
Its indeed awesome simply reading aviation enthusiasts from Singapore who,if not being able to penetrate into SQ or the works,have given a thought to self sponsor themselves...
I am a Singaporean and a self sponsored guy myself..To me SQ was and is never a priority..My priority was to simply fly and not the money and i don't need autopilots to make me happy..I just started flying for a company after a 3 year struggle with the weather in Canada and am simply loving my lifestyle now..I will definitely not have this kinda lifestyle if i were to be with SQ...So for those wanting to and have made a decision to go flying at their own expense...I will say,just go...and i also understand it highly when you all get scared of not landing up a job at the end of the day...Jobs,i can tell you guys out there,there are plenty...it is only up to you guys to relocate and work..I myself have relocated and am happily working and once in a while come back to Singapore for a holiday...So its fun..
And i have also read about some guys haveing mediocre O level results...Trust me guys,only in our Asian Region that this policy kinda exist..In north America,Africa or Middle East, for example, they don't get into the knitty gritty of this sort..
So,again,for those with 3 or 4 O Level passes,you guys really shouldn't be too worried...I have met Cooks,Drivers,Maintenance personnel and pple from all walks of life as well as guys with "awesome" school results becoming pilots so what usually smaller companies want is your flight experience and a good attitude,showing a high interest level in the job you will be doing,i.e., flying their aircraft and showing an ability to adapt in a new location..Because I have had interview Q's,such as :"How do you feel working in this country?"
And for those guys in general who are older in the age factor,if this makes you feel better,let me tell you about my instructor when i was training in Canada...He is a fine example of a guy who would have had all the odds against him if he was Singaporean..He was a cook with minimal education, no degree of that sort and he was 39 when he decided to get into flying...He was a divorced man with 3 young daughters...Imagine,if this guy can do it,anyone could..He is a british guy but an excellent individual..At that age,with 3 daughters to support at home,with minimal education,being a cook,everyone would think what is this guy thinking..But guess what,this is the same man,who is the Chief Pilot of a company,and he is a recruiting guy of this Oil and Gas company in Canada though he flies the King AIr 350 Turbo prop,he takes home an awesome pay and he is 55 years old now...when he told me his story,i felt good about myself all of a sudden because I am not young myelf...
So all in all,if you guys have 3 or 4 O level passes,don't let that hinder your chances of becoming what you want...You guys want to become pilots after all, not DOCTORS...and age,story told above...Fly with the dreams and just be willing to take any available job and don't think of the money...My first job by the way,if it makes you guys feel better too, was 600 US dollars a mth..It is one pathetic pay...trust me...but you will grow out of that when you get the hours..
Cheers guys and don't get disheartened because of your age or minimal O level results...Keep it going..You will feel down at times because you wud eventually need a job but yeah,if there was a way,we should start a new thread,just for Singaporean self sponsored guys,to update them about the various available jobs and openings for them but if this is possible....
Cheers Guys..
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Excellent!
Hi there prixus 29,
It's always good to read real-life examples of how the self-sponsored boys made it good. Ok, so we are the unfortunate ones that didn't get the coveted airline-sponsored cadetship but sometimes a booster post like this really lift up the spirit of those still struggling to make their dreams come true!
You have my salutations as well
It's always good to read real-life examples of how the self-sponsored boys made it good. Ok, so we are the unfortunate ones that didn't get the coveted airline-sponsored cadetship but sometimes a booster post like this really lift up the spirit of those still struggling to make their dreams come true!
You have my salutations as well
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Thanks Sonic69 and Wannabe15...
I just wished this thread was started way before i even left to do my flight training..It would have kept me in the loop with the many aspiring future pilots...I guess I just took the plunge and realised I had to survive since I already got myself in this and especially when i started to do my CPL training,I realised I am getting way deeper into the industry and there's no turning back..It was a make it or break it situation..But it eventually did turn out fine, though I tasted a rough patch initially for sure..This is just to tell you guys out there that its not going to come easy for your first job BUT it will definitely come..
I forgot to also mention with respect to our future female pilots too,I know alot of Singaporean female folks do have this interest in flight as well as I have spoken to many and not forgetting my very own gf who is even more crazy about being a pilot as compared to me..I thought I was crazy enough,she proved a point..And she keeps telling me females in Singapore got no hope as pilots...Thats another big pointer here...To all those female wannabe pilots,take flying lessons as if you are going out abroad to get your degree or something which alot of pple do..Sometimes you just got to do it...and about jobs,its the same for the rest of us Singaporeans...So as a female,your chances of becoming a pilot is equal to any male...I enjoy flying with my female buddy pilots because I realise they are better pilots than drivers..lol...It is only in Singapore or so that they do not hire females as pilots in SQ but once in a while in Silkair you could find a new female entry and I know the reason but it cuts you females outta the league which is very unfair...But if you ladies are willing to equally relocate as well,I guess you ladies will be giving us a run for a job because prospective employers love humans in skirts..
Talking about the various jobs..There are float operators,charter flying,Corporate flying and I am sure if you guys are wanting to be pilots,I highly am confident you guys know flying prospects beyond just the airlines but since we live here,the airlines is only what we can think about..I'd rather be in Command within 2-3 years and take home a Captain's salary as compared to waiting 7,8,9,10 years before i take command in SQ..yeah you wont be earning your 15K salary as captain with SQ but so what,you still Captain an aircraft,you enjoy your job,your wife or husband is proud of you,and you always wake up,waiting to run to your aircraft.
And just a lil pointer,float flying is one crazy ass flying...thats what i do by the way...My uniform is a pilot's shirt,Bermudas,and slippers and occassionally i bring my Aviators..what more...I enjoy the sun,the sand,the sea and the flying..Now this to me is more fun...just a personal thing i guess..I know of another Singaporean buddy friend of mine who trained with me in Canada,he is now a flight instructor with 1200 odd hours now under his belt and he told me last that he is going to do some corporate flying...and corporate flying by the way pays you wayyyyyy much better than a Captain flying for SQ if you guys didn't know...But to me it was always abt flying,not the pay too much and I rather hand fly than putting it on auto pilot..so its all about our likes and the lifestyle you want..
The only thing about self sponsoring is that it could get expensive and not everyone can afford it..the best would be to do it modular style if some of you guys are thinking of Malaysia...do the PPL,save abit more do the CPL and all the other ratings after that..and this is how the westerners do it by the way..they save and keep paying for their flight lessons..its not feasible for us too because our salary range is very low as compared to theirs...we could be earning like average 5 bucks an hour when they earn an average of 10 bucks an hour...So big difference there..But then again,if you want it,you'll be able to find a way...In fact I even for a lil bit of my loan was taken from GE Money if you need some cash...they were a lil bit helpful to me too..But you wont get much...but keep that as a last resort though...when you are financially drained half way thru...that was me when i was trying to finish off..I always had financial issues along the way just to complete the training..
Cheers guys and really hope to hear about your dreams and how you guys are getting along finally with flight training...
I just wished this thread was started way before i even left to do my flight training..It would have kept me in the loop with the many aspiring future pilots...I guess I just took the plunge and realised I had to survive since I already got myself in this and especially when i started to do my CPL training,I realised I am getting way deeper into the industry and there's no turning back..It was a make it or break it situation..But it eventually did turn out fine, though I tasted a rough patch initially for sure..This is just to tell you guys out there that its not going to come easy for your first job BUT it will definitely come..
I forgot to also mention with respect to our future female pilots too,I know alot of Singaporean female folks do have this interest in flight as well as I have spoken to many and not forgetting my very own gf who is even more crazy about being a pilot as compared to me..I thought I was crazy enough,she proved a point..And she keeps telling me females in Singapore got no hope as pilots...Thats another big pointer here...To all those female wannabe pilots,take flying lessons as if you are going out abroad to get your degree or something which alot of pple do..Sometimes you just got to do it...and about jobs,its the same for the rest of us Singaporeans...So as a female,your chances of becoming a pilot is equal to any male...I enjoy flying with my female buddy pilots because I realise they are better pilots than drivers..lol...It is only in Singapore or so that they do not hire females as pilots in SQ but once in a while in Silkair you could find a new female entry and I know the reason but it cuts you females outta the league which is very unfair...But if you ladies are willing to equally relocate as well,I guess you ladies will be giving us a run for a job because prospective employers love humans in skirts..
Talking about the various jobs..There are float operators,charter flying,Corporate flying and I am sure if you guys are wanting to be pilots,I highly am confident you guys know flying prospects beyond just the airlines but since we live here,the airlines is only what we can think about..I'd rather be in Command within 2-3 years and take home a Captain's salary as compared to waiting 7,8,9,10 years before i take command in SQ..yeah you wont be earning your 15K salary as captain with SQ but so what,you still Captain an aircraft,you enjoy your job,your wife or husband is proud of you,and you always wake up,waiting to run to your aircraft.
And just a lil pointer,float flying is one crazy ass flying...thats what i do by the way...My uniform is a pilot's shirt,Bermudas,and slippers and occassionally i bring my Aviators..what more...I enjoy the sun,the sand,the sea and the flying..Now this to me is more fun...just a personal thing i guess..I know of another Singaporean buddy friend of mine who trained with me in Canada,he is now a flight instructor with 1200 odd hours now under his belt and he told me last that he is going to do some corporate flying...and corporate flying by the way pays you wayyyyyy much better than a Captain flying for SQ if you guys didn't know...But to me it was always abt flying,not the pay too much and I rather hand fly than putting it on auto pilot..so its all about our likes and the lifestyle you want..
The only thing about self sponsoring is that it could get expensive and not everyone can afford it..the best would be to do it modular style if some of you guys are thinking of Malaysia...do the PPL,save abit more do the CPL and all the other ratings after that..and this is how the westerners do it by the way..they save and keep paying for their flight lessons..its not feasible for us too because our salary range is very low as compared to theirs...we could be earning like average 5 bucks an hour when they earn an average of 10 bucks an hour...So big difference there..But then again,if you want it,you'll be able to find a way...In fact I even for a lil bit of my loan was taken from GE Money if you need some cash...they were a lil bit helpful to me too..But you wont get much...but keep that as a last resort though...when you are financially drained half way thru...that was me when i was trying to finish off..I always had financial issues along the way just to complete the training..
Cheers guys and really hope to hear about your dreams and how you guys are getting along finally with flight training...
Last edited by phrixus29; 17th Oct 2008 at 15:01.
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Hello phrixus29, very good to hear your success story. For the benefit of the aspiring pilots (of which I am one) here, can you detail the steps of your flight training and career journey?
Where did you train, what courses have you taken, how did you finance it.... How did you get your first pilot's job and what was it..... How did you look for jobs, even found one in Canada!
Hope you can help us see the possible paths available. Of course I know there is more than one path and following your route exactly may not suit everyone, but it's good to know your path for reference.
Where did you train, what courses have you taken, how did you finance it.... How did you get your first pilot's job and what was it..... How did you look for jobs, even found one in Canada!
Hope you can help us see the possible paths available. Of course I know there is more than one path and following your route exactly may not suit everyone, but it's good to know your path for reference.
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Hi Lookahead,
Yeah I can definitely display my journey for the benefit of the many guys out there leaning towards the sky...
I basically, started off in Singapore for that matter..I was in the Youth Flying Club,did a bunch of aeromodelling stuff and then even had a go at the flying component..and by the way YFC,as they advertise for 5 O' Levels, they take in guys with 4 O' Levels too,as long as you have maths, english and science(be it combine or pure)..I did not get my PPL with YFC but dropped out of it because I started to get busy with my studies..
After army,I decided to head out to get my flying licenses,was unsure initially where but narrowed it down from the states,australia,south africa,NZ,Canada to simply Canada..I went on to Canada,to this school (Moncton Flight Academy) and thats where I met sooo many foreigners from different parts of the world...And that's where I met pple who are still willing to help me get into some company or the other..I have met a Malaysian,became one of my best friends who was rejected by MAS and SQ 5 times because of his height..he is short but he has made it elsewhere...I have met this other singaporean buddy friend of mine(he used to be a navigator on the C-130 with the RSAF) and i met many Hongkis as well who were Cathay rejects and are doing exceptionally well now and many Omani guys who till today tell me to come to Oman because they want to help me get into Oman Air on the B737's...I am happy to have made great friends along the way as well as meeting many foreign pilots...
And your question as to how I find jobs??...The above lil paragraph says alot...Its all about networking...You will find it very very difficult now as to know where the jobs are and where the jobs are not available as you guys have not enrolled in a flight school/club...It is when you start networking in the flight school,you will meet pple with different likes/dislikes and thats where you will find out who's hiring and who is not hiring and what the requirements are and how to go about getting them...There are certain websites I personally go to myself but thats only a lil reference..In fact i use to simply google the list of charter companies in the country i wish to work in or so...and I am a guy who would search in countries where I know its developing and i know they can't churn out as much pilots as possible and they would be definitely be looking for foreign talents..Bu the best of the best would be to make good friends along the way in your respective flight schools and keep it going,you never know when they could help you or you could help them..I have helped a few too in my journey and in fact i just got another guy's resume to hand in to my boss..Like to me its never an issue because i had to struggle too and its really a pleasure to help pple..I know how stressful it can get when you are dying for a job and companies shun you away..and be prepared to get shunned by 100's of companies...sometimes i send in my resumes and never get a call or response back..Out of 100 company,take it as a success if 1 company replies back to you..so here it is,its not easy but achievable for sure..So network with buddy pilots and never burn bridges..Its a favourite line in flight schools,Never burn Bridges..You never know when you might need someones help in the industry..Cos this industry is very small,the word gets around real quick..
As in my choice of country to train in,Canada,I will have to say one thing though...take Canada as your last choice..I swear..Its great for training but the weather is going to delay you sooo much and make you spend soo much...A course that should have finished in a year took me 3 years!!!Reason:I am always waiting for the snowfall to stop,the ceilings to increase,the rain to stop and a whole load of weather related issues..Go to a place where its mostly sunshine...M'sia is definitely a great place to start,seriously because you guys get to come home regularly too if doing the course in modular format...or got to Florida in the states or anywhere in OZ where there's sunshine most of the time..It will save you guys money...
And for how I financed my training,I had enough money to only complete up to the CPL component and after that I didn't have enough to further get my ratings like the Multi Engine Rating,Instrument Rating,Instructor Rating and eventually I even did the Float Rating..
I had a lil saving of 20K of my own and then I was a tad bit lucky and was given 10K by my ex gf who was financially very stable,I took a loan from GE Money of 8K and the rest I had to beg from my paternal grandmother...She gave me attitude initially but who cares as long as it puts you through school rite and you achieve what you want to achieve..I even worked as a dispatcher at the flight school so that I could earn some money so from there,I saved up another 8K CDN in a span of 7 mths...Basically i cut down on alot of expenditure to save that money..So this is how i kinda financed my whole training...It was very rough when i was going thru it and i was really stressed up and all and you guys will feel it too along the way if you guys have a tight budget,which is definitely a whole bunch of us,i know..
My first job was a line pilot with a charter company out in Kinhasa,Congo...Scared?Worried?Thats's exactly what i did...I went to a diseased location just to get some hours..I was willing to and I know i had to if i wanted to make it..and in that location,I met many Canadian pilots too who was there just to build alil bit of hours but one thing for sure,as much as it was in Congo,the place where plague started,I enjoyed it, cos we pilots got loads of respect from the community there but they paid me nothing...but everything else was taken care of for me..Alot of you guys might get worried and might not even want to leave luxury for the woods...But if you want it seriously,you have to just do it..take it positively,its an experience alot of pple wont even have..and then after that,i got a lil bored and very home sick and then i went on to Vancouver,did my float rating for 2K CDN and applied to my current job right now and I fly in the Maldives..Its sunshine all year round and many beautiful women i meet everyday from different parts of the world who love to party it up with pilots in the Maldives..lol...So yeah,I might just retire here,I don't know..I am happy at the moment..But who knows I might just get into corporate someday but for now,its all good..But you guys don't even need to go my road..You guys can even instruct for a bit and then get into anything you guys want...
Yeah I can definitely display my journey for the benefit of the many guys out there leaning towards the sky...
I basically, started off in Singapore for that matter..I was in the Youth Flying Club,did a bunch of aeromodelling stuff and then even had a go at the flying component..and by the way YFC,as they advertise for 5 O' Levels, they take in guys with 4 O' Levels too,as long as you have maths, english and science(be it combine or pure)..I did not get my PPL with YFC but dropped out of it because I started to get busy with my studies..
After army,I decided to head out to get my flying licenses,was unsure initially where but narrowed it down from the states,australia,south africa,NZ,Canada to simply Canada..I went on to Canada,to this school (Moncton Flight Academy) and thats where I met sooo many foreigners from different parts of the world...And that's where I met pple who are still willing to help me get into some company or the other..I have met a Malaysian,became one of my best friends who was rejected by MAS and SQ 5 times because of his height..he is short but he has made it elsewhere...I have met this other singaporean buddy friend of mine(he used to be a navigator on the C-130 with the RSAF) and i met many Hongkis as well who were Cathay rejects and are doing exceptionally well now and many Omani guys who till today tell me to come to Oman because they want to help me get into Oman Air on the B737's...I am happy to have made great friends along the way as well as meeting many foreign pilots...
And your question as to how I find jobs??...The above lil paragraph says alot...Its all about networking...You will find it very very difficult now as to know where the jobs are and where the jobs are not available as you guys have not enrolled in a flight school/club...It is when you start networking in the flight school,you will meet pple with different likes/dislikes and thats where you will find out who's hiring and who is not hiring and what the requirements are and how to go about getting them...There are certain websites I personally go to myself but thats only a lil reference..In fact i use to simply google the list of charter companies in the country i wish to work in or so...and I am a guy who would search in countries where I know its developing and i know they can't churn out as much pilots as possible and they would be definitely be looking for foreign talents..Bu the best of the best would be to make good friends along the way in your respective flight schools and keep it going,you never know when they could help you or you could help them..I have helped a few too in my journey and in fact i just got another guy's resume to hand in to my boss..Like to me its never an issue because i had to struggle too and its really a pleasure to help pple..I know how stressful it can get when you are dying for a job and companies shun you away..and be prepared to get shunned by 100's of companies...sometimes i send in my resumes and never get a call or response back..Out of 100 company,take it as a success if 1 company replies back to you..so here it is,its not easy but achievable for sure..So network with buddy pilots and never burn bridges..Its a favourite line in flight schools,Never burn Bridges..You never know when you might need someones help in the industry..Cos this industry is very small,the word gets around real quick..
As in my choice of country to train in,Canada,I will have to say one thing though...take Canada as your last choice..I swear..Its great for training but the weather is going to delay you sooo much and make you spend soo much...A course that should have finished in a year took me 3 years!!!Reason:I am always waiting for the snowfall to stop,the ceilings to increase,the rain to stop and a whole load of weather related issues..Go to a place where its mostly sunshine...M'sia is definitely a great place to start,seriously because you guys get to come home regularly too if doing the course in modular format...or got to Florida in the states or anywhere in OZ where there's sunshine most of the time..It will save you guys money...
And for how I financed my training,I had enough money to only complete up to the CPL component and after that I didn't have enough to further get my ratings like the Multi Engine Rating,Instrument Rating,Instructor Rating and eventually I even did the Float Rating..
I had a lil saving of 20K of my own and then I was a tad bit lucky and was given 10K by my ex gf who was financially very stable,I took a loan from GE Money of 8K and the rest I had to beg from my paternal grandmother...She gave me attitude initially but who cares as long as it puts you through school rite and you achieve what you want to achieve..I even worked as a dispatcher at the flight school so that I could earn some money so from there,I saved up another 8K CDN in a span of 7 mths...Basically i cut down on alot of expenditure to save that money..So this is how i kinda financed my whole training...It was very rough when i was going thru it and i was really stressed up and all and you guys will feel it too along the way if you guys have a tight budget,which is definitely a whole bunch of us,i know..
My first job was a line pilot with a charter company out in Kinhasa,Congo...Scared?Worried?Thats's exactly what i did...I went to a diseased location just to get some hours..I was willing to and I know i had to if i wanted to make it..and in that location,I met many Canadian pilots too who was there just to build alil bit of hours but one thing for sure,as much as it was in Congo,the place where plague started,I enjoyed it, cos we pilots got loads of respect from the community there but they paid me nothing...but everything else was taken care of for me..Alot of you guys might get worried and might not even want to leave luxury for the woods...But if you want it seriously,you have to just do it..take it positively,its an experience alot of pple wont even have..and then after that,i got a lil bored and very home sick and then i went on to Vancouver,did my float rating for 2K CDN and applied to my current job right now and I fly in the Maldives..Its sunshine all year round and many beautiful women i meet everyday from different parts of the world who love to party it up with pilots in the Maldives..lol...So yeah,I might just retire here,I don't know..I am happy at the moment..But who knows I might just get into corporate someday but for now,its all good..But you guys don't even need to go my road..You guys can even instruct for a bit and then get into anything you guys want...
Join Date: Oct 2008
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keep it up guys!
Indeed Singapore is a very small place for inspired aviators to get a job, but I do believe if u don’t give on your dreams, u will be rewarded in one way or another.
I got my CPL in Malaysia from MFA and got a job flying a A320 after that in Singapore. I really hope news like this will keep the dreams of many alive and come true.
cheers
I got my CPL in Malaysia from MFA and got a job flying a A320 after that in Singapore. I really hope news like this will keep the dreams of many alive and come true.
cheers
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phrixus29:
Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences. Definitely opened my eyes to the possibilities. And my goodness, you ended up in the middle of Africa for your first flying job, I can't imagine that for myself! And enjoy the flying and socialising in Maldives!
jblim:
You're got an airline job after privately funding your CPL. I'm sure many guys here have that aspiration. Can you share how you got your airline job?
Did you get hired with just a CPL/IR/fATPL?
Before you got your job, did you go for further training, for instance self funded A320 type rating?
Did you have to clock 1500 PIC hours through some flying jobs to unfreeze your ATPL, before the airline considered your application?
Thanks a lot for sharing your experiences. Definitely opened my eyes to the possibilities. And my goodness, you ended up in the middle of Africa for your first flying job, I can't imagine that for myself! And enjoy the flying and socialising in Maldives!
jblim:
You're got an airline job after privately funding your CPL. I'm sure many guys here have that aspiration. Can you share how you got your airline job?
Did you get hired with just a CPL/IR/fATPL?
Before you got your job, did you go for further training, for instance self funded A320 type rating?
Did you have to clock 1500 PIC hours through some flying jobs to unfreeze your ATPL, before the airline considered your application?
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I'd like to clarify one misconception... that the 5 'O' level credits that must include Math, a Science subject and English need not be taken in 1 sitting under CAAS' requirements. It's a SQ requirement.
Cheers.
Cheers.
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Thanks guys...
Because the truth is still that no matter what,achieving your goals is achievable if SQ is not the route...Thats the highlight...The world sponsor themselves actually and we are just caught up with the SQ world..No sponsorship doesn't mean you guys can't become pilots..
It is just like if you guys don't get a scholarship,it doesn't mean you guys will never become degree holders...So this is what it is..A scholarship confirms a job after your degree course and a cadet sponsorship also confirms a job waiting after your flight training..Similar isn't it..
And with regards to getting a job into the airlines right out of flight school,it is not far fetched at all because these things happen all the time but it all depends on luck too..Like if you guys have been following the sudden boom in the aviation industry in India and China directly,you will realise guys go and do their flight training and they are on B747's,B737's and the works...when they need you,they will take you even if they have to pay a higher insurance premium..But of now,this situation is dying as most airline companies, specificaly in India is dying or merging and all the Indian guys in every part of the world are basically in panic mode because they have to now go out and scout for jobs as well..
For some of you who don't know why airlines have high requirements,it is actually because of the aviation insurance companies that outline the experience of the pilot to be recruited before the insurance companies want to even insure the airlines..Some aviation companies are willing to insure the airlines when recruiting low time pilots BUT the airlines would have to pay a higher premium...But in some other countries,could even be Singapore, aviation insurance companies will NOT insure the airlines even if the airlines are willing to pay a higher premium...Remember,everyone's in business afterall...
And I have been even asked about license conversion when you work in different countries..In many developing countries and non-developing countries as well,example, the whole of the Carribean Islands,South America,Africa(Certain places),Middle East(certain places) and in some parts of asia,all they want is an ICAO license..And if you have the required hours,the company will normally assist you in work permit and stuff like that...I know many of you have even thought, "how am I to get a work permit in other countries when in Australia,US or so"..They require you to get a job first and they prefer to hire their own locals.In these countries,its a lil bit more difficult,cos they definitely prefer to hire their own locals and they don't really require us..So tap into countries that are more liberal,not first world commonwealth countries as they claim to be anyways
...Look into the carribeans,fiji,africa,etc..Malaysia is a very good starting point too..
Like when i did my flight instructor's rating,I was very blunt with the boss of the school..Though flight instructing was not my first job,but i was preparing for back-up's...I told him that I would only pump my cash further into his school if he guaranteed me a job with the school..He was reluctant to give me a direct answer initially but then i told him,its big money,you need my money and I need a job,its a fair trade..I spoke to him very professionally and i meant business because he was in business as much as I would be giving him my business but i definitely needed something in return and thats a job and in the end,he agreed..Because if he did not,I would have packed my bags and left for another city in search of another school to do business with...So if you guys are taking the instructor route,confirm your placement as an instructor before you even do the rating..Just a little advice..You don't want to do the rating and the boss tell you,thanks for your business but I can't give you a job..His gain totally..Not good for us..lol..
Because the truth is still that no matter what,achieving your goals is achievable if SQ is not the route...Thats the highlight...The world sponsor themselves actually and we are just caught up with the SQ world..No sponsorship doesn't mean you guys can't become pilots..
It is just like if you guys don't get a scholarship,it doesn't mean you guys will never become degree holders...So this is what it is..A scholarship confirms a job after your degree course and a cadet sponsorship also confirms a job waiting after your flight training..Similar isn't it..
And with regards to getting a job into the airlines right out of flight school,it is not far fetched at all because these things happen all the time but it all depends on luck too..Like if you guys have been following the sudden boom in the aviation industry in India and China directly,you will realise guys go and do their flight training and they are on B747's,B737's and the works...when they need you,they will take you even if they have to pay a higher insurance premium..But of now,this situation is dying as most airline companies, specificaly in India is dying or merging and all the Indian guys in every part of the world are basically in panic mode because they have to now go out and scout for jobs as well..
For some of you who don't know why airlines have high requirements,it is actually because of the aviation insurance companies that outline the experience of the pilot to be recruited before the insurance companies want to even insure the airlines..Some aviation companies are willing to insure the airlines when recruiting low time pilots BUT the airlines would have to pay a higher premium...But in some other countries,could even be Singapore, aviation insurance companies will NOT insure the airlines even if the airlines are willing to pay a higher premium...Remember,everyone's in business afterall...
And I have been even asked about license conversion when you work in different countries..In many developing countries and non-developing countries as well,example, the whole of the Carribean Islands,South America,Africa(Certain places),Middle East(certain places) and in some parts of asia,all they want is an ICAO license..And if you have the required hours,the company will normally assist you in work permit and stuff like that...I know many of you have even thought, "how am I to get a work permit in other countries when in Australia,US or so"..They require you to get a job first and they prefer to hire their own locals.In these countries,its a lil bit more difficult,cos they definitely prefer to hire their own locals and they don't really require us..So tap into countries that are more liberal,not first world commonwealth countries as they claim to be anyways
...Look into the carribeans,fiji,africa,etc..Malaysia is a very good starting point too..Like when i did my flight instructor's rating,I was very blunt with the boss of the school..Though flight instructing was not my first job,but i was preparing for back-up's...I told him that I would only pump my cash further into his school if he guaranteed me a job with the school..He was reluctant to give me a direct answer initially but then i told him,its big money,you need my money and I need a job,its a fair trade..I spoke to him very professionally and i meant business because he was in business as much as I would be giving him my business but i definitely needed something in return and thats a job and in the end,he agreed..Because if he did not,I would have packed my bags and left for another city in search of another school to do business with...So if you guys are taking the instructor route,confirm your placement as an instructor before you even do the rating..Just a little advice..You don't want to do the rating and the boss tell you,thanks for your business but I can't give you a job..His gain totally..Not good for us..lol..
Join Date: Oct 2008
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trying trying trying
I got my ppl and did some flying before i went to the flying school to get a cpl. One of the management people from the airline come to our school(MFA)
for a visit then i was lucky to communicate with them and express my interest in joining the airline. Then I was invited down for an interview follow by a sim check.
I got accepted with cpl/ir/fatpl with about 250 hours. Then I went to Toulouse airbus to get my rating with is sponsor by the company (budget airline), for 3 years bond.
you gotta be at the right place at the right time.. if not just keep trying ..
for a visit then i was lucky to communicate with them and express my interest in joining the airline. Then I was invited down for an interview follow by a sim check.
I got accepted with cpl/ir/fatpl with about 250 hours. Then I went to Toulouse airbus to get my rating with is sponsor by the company (budget airline), for 3 years bond.
you gotta be at the right place at the right time.. if not just keep trying ..
Join Date: Aug 2006
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To: jblim
Hi jblim, great to hear u r doing fine in one of our LCC. However, u come from a Malaysian/S'pore PR background, right? Cos this thread reflects the difficulty of self sponsored Singaporeans entering the airlines, yet also celebrates our adventure in GA. For Malaysians, this difficulty is mitigated with the likes of MAS, AirAsia, MASwings and Fireflyz, waiting in the background and a protective DCA. So with all respect bro.....
Cheers and good luck in ur endeavours
Cheers and good luck in ur endeavours
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To: phrixus29
Dude, u r the inspiration of this thread i tell u. 
Best of all, u look like u r having fun! Working in Congo for a sporean self sponsored aviator is so unheard of! I salute ur balls, spirit to try and sense of adventure. ~kowtow kowtow~
Cheers.
Best of all, u look like u r having fun! Working in Congo for a sporean self sponsored aviator is so unheard of! I salute ur balls, spirit to try and sense of adventure. ~kowtow kowtow~
Cheers.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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Hi guys, I was told by the HR personnel of SFC that they do not require anymore cadet flight instructors for the time being. I have been waiting since June and I can't wait around much longer till the time when they need instructors again. I am strongly considering going to MFA to get my CPL/IR w fATPL to pursue my flying license. The next intake is 2nd Feb 09 however vacancies are closing fast..Currently I am a 22year old Dip holder.
Planning to do an AFI course shall I not be able to enter any airline upon completion of the course. Anybody been there done that?
Planning to do an AFI course shall I not be able to enter any airline upon completion of the course. Anybody been there done that?
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Anywhere but M'sia
I would strongly urge you to consider going to the US, Canada or Australia. As mentioned before, the Msian schools take a minimum of 2 years to complete a cadet to CPL MEIR fATPL and 250hrs. Within that time in the US, you would have 1500hrs with ATP, CFI/CFME/CFII Instructor Rated and been paid to fly 1200 of those hours as an instructor. Take a page from Phrixus' book and build your hours overseas. You will be more attractive to airlines that want to take direct entry First Officers.
Look at schools in the US with a J1 visa program.
Look at schools in the US with a J1 visa program.