China Airlines/China Airlines F/O, (update)-Merged Twice!.

[Pin Head]

ELO:

Can I stay anywhere on the route network an pick the a/c up their or is it limited to certain destinations only? If so what are these? I have heard FRA been mentioned. How about SYD or MAN?

The workforce is it mainly comprised of westerns or our locals in charge.

All info greatfully received?

[Pin Head]

So what's the financial package worth both fo those based in Tai pai and those who are based in FRA on the foreign base deal?

[sky_is_the_limit]

CAL ??? Anybody??

Does anyone has an interview with CAL pending? I know that we can write books about CAL. But is it worth the money and effort to fly for CAL let us say that you do not want to be a commander for them within 3 years??

Anybody can explain more about the terms and conditions: pay package, bond, ELO info??

ELO: can you do that in AMS too??

Thanks

PLease PM me for more details - I have an interview upcoming in MAY!!

[oicur12]

Hey there,

do they hire 747 fo's for US basing. do fo's need type rating. Do they need fo's now.



Thanks in advance.

[sky330]

They (?) need F/O on nearly on all sectors, due expansion and more important a lot of F/O's leaving the company.Guess why??

Don't know about basing.

Make a search on pprune about CAL, and carefully assesed, if that's what you are looking for.

[Pin Head]

If I have not heard anything for 2 weeks since sending in my application, it says that I have been unsuccessful.

Should I take this as gospel?

[Quietachiever]

CAL demotion

Quietachiever - The rules of PPRuNe, which you agreed to abide by when you registered, clearly state no personal abuse and no racism. You seem to take great delight in wandering through the Far East forum and breaking both these rules. You are now banned from the forum until you contact me either via PM or Email and confirm that you will, in future, abide by the rules of PPRuNe. Your call. BlueEagle, Moderator.

[JTF]

What are peoples opinions about trying for a 25+ year career here? I'm American and I've lived in Taiwan before (not as a pilot). My fiance is Taiwanese and would prefer to live in Taiwan. I understand it could be an awful long time to upgrade but the rates posted even for FOs are big money in Taiwan considering the average person there doesn't make much more than $1000 US a month. The rates suck overall for 747 pilots, but if you live there at least semi-native you can live pretty darn well on FO pay. I truly liked living there and while I may very well die of lung cancer from the pollution I would love to be a pilot in Taiwan. I speak some Mandarin and would definitely work towards fluency. Does anyone think a foreigner could have a full career there or do you think they will be fazed out as enough locals gain enough experience?

[AAIGUY]

Just got my Interview.

5500TT, 1000B747.

The 8+ days at home leave are what interest me most.

[sky330]

JTF,

China insists that employees are "family", while a part is just nice words, they really believe a part of it.
My feeling is that if possible they will honestly try, not to fired someone except for safety reasons (read for not following the books!).

So in my opinion, it is quite possible to make a long carreer in China, if you can accept their company culture wich is certainly easier speaking mandarin. Some pilots (expatriate) have been here quite some time.

Now, I may be completly wrong and if faced with a choice between a local and an expat, their choice will be obvious.

I am afraid that nobody can answer your question not even CAL management, because it will be different guys in ten or fifteen years and rules WILL changed.
Nobody can predict future for the next 25 years....

[Hachiouji-shi]

CAL

Hello Jim,

Please check your PMs

Thanks

[typhoonpilot]

What are peoples opinions about trying for a 25+ year career here? I'm American and I've lived in Taiwan before (not as a pilot). My fiance is Taiwanese and would prefer to live in Taiwan. I understand it could be an awful long time to upgrade but the rates posted even for FOs are big money in Taiwan considering the average person there doesn't make much more than $1000 US a month. The rates suck overall for 747 pilots, but if you live there at least semi-native you can live pretty darn well on FO pay. I truly liked living there and while I may very well die of lung cancer from the pollution I would love to be a pilot in Taiwan. I speak some Mandarin and would definitely work towards fluency. Does anyone think a foreigner could have a full career there or do you think they will be fazed out as enough locals gain enough experience?

JTF:

A very good question. Before I answer though, a little about myself to show you how similar we may or may not be. I am an American and have lived in Taiwan before ( as a pilot ). I'm married to a Taiwanese ( congratulations, by the way ) and my wife would also prefer to live in Taiwan.

While the pay of an F.O. at China Airlines is high in relation to the normal worker bees in Taiwan, it would still be a struggle to make a comfortable life in Taipei. I am going to assume that you would want to buy a place to live in. A three bedroom apartment downtown Taipei will run you well over $300,000 for the most basic in a crummy area to well over $500,000 for a decent one in a decent area. You could choose to buy out near the airport for much less, but that has it's drawbacks when it comes to shopping, schooling, going out, etc.

On the subject of schooling. Are you planning on having children ? Do you want to educate them at local schools where rote memorization is stressed over creativity and the normal western style of education, or would you want to send them to the Taipei American School ? Take a look at the fees for the Taipei American School. Your $5000 per month salary just might cover 2 kids at TAS

That is just the lifestyle stuff. On to the career question. This is much more difficult to answer. When I worked there ( at FAT ) they promised us that we could stay as long as we liked. Then the Asian Economic Crisis happened and the NT Dollar devalued and in the blink of an eye that promise wasn't honored. The President of FAT at the time was none other than Lee Yun Ling, now President of CAL. He's a nice guy but the big money people who put him there tell him what to do when it comes to budgetary things like expat pilots. When he retires he could very well be replaced by Chen May Wen, who is the current President of FAT and a complete jerk. He hates expats and I guarantee he will try to get rid of them.

The only thing that solidifies the expat position in Taiwan, and especially at CAL, is the safety factor. As long as CAL doesn't prang an airplane they will look to replace the expats with locals. If, god forbid, they prang another one then that actually provides job security to the expats. Provided, of course, that it isn't an expat that prangs it in.

I'm not sure where you are in your career, but the advice I always give is to never go to Taiwan unless you are going as a Captain. Life as an F.O. would be unbearable. I've seen how the local Captains, especially the ex-military pilots, treat their F.O.s and I would never tolerate that kind of treatment. Of course this was at FAT and not CAL so maybe it is better at CAL.

All that said, it is a personal decision as to what you can tolerate and how much you want to live and work in Taiwan. FAT had a Vietnamese pilot, very senior 757 Captain, who left Vietnam after the war and ended up in Taiwan. He learned to read, write, and speak Mandarin and was on local terms at FAT.

Hope this helps,


TP

[Defenestrator]

Interview Process????

Just got the nod for an interview. Apparently in goes interview, sim, medical. Is anybody that has been through the process of late in a position to pass on what to expect, ie. interview type questioning, profile for the sim and in what type. And last but not least.....the dreaded medical. Thanks in advance. PM me if you wish.
Defen

[gonzo7]

can anyone update the current benefits and commitments at CAL? also a little gouge on the interview process, QOL, bases, etc would be nice.

the only info i got so far is that the salary range is between 4000-4600USD/mo

[AAIGUY]

From my understanding. (I am interviewing there is a few weeks) the Salary , including housing allownace and perdeim, is around $6500.

[gonzo7]

it seems like the info is pretty scarce for this company. i'd like to get more detailed information on the employment there.

can i assume the interview is in TPE?

are all their destinations open for EOL? if not, which ones are?

what are the options for rosters if you're based in TPE or EOL?

is there still a training bond, if so, how much and how long?

are they still not upgrading expats?

are they still losing a bunch of expats? if so are they working on improving their relations with expat pilots?

if they're not upgrading expats, can you finish your contract and apply again as a captain in order to get into the left seat?

health, travel, retirement benefits?

they talk about they pay salaries offshore. is that off shore to taiwan or off shore to your home country? any US pilots care to share some info on the tax situation with working for china and paying US taxes?

any information and more would be greatly appreciated by me and many others i'm sure.

gonzo

[sky330]

can i assume the interview is in TPE?

Mostly yes, but sometimes, they move to some other place if they have enough candidate from the same region.

are all their destinations open for EOL? if not, which ones are?

For the time being no. I know of LAX, LUX, FRA, AMS on 744, none that I am aware of in A340, but there is talks...

what are the options for rosters if you're based in TPE or EOL?

Euh?? You can make the flights or leave the company

is there still a training bond, if so, how much and how long?

Yes, don't know the details because it seems very "variable"....

are they still not upgrading expats?

No, they changed their mind, everybody is automatically chief-pilot after hiring.
Forget it NO UPGRADE!!

are they still losing a bunch of expats? if so are they working on improving their relations with expat pilots?

Yes. Relations are really friendly, problem is working conditions and how to improve it for the expat without higher cost (that's possible) but at the same time continuing to screw up the locals without them complaining.

if they're not upgrading expats, can you finish your contract and apply again as a captain in order to get into the left seat?

I would be really surprised if they accepted that. BTW, how would you get PIC experience flying as F/O for CAL ???

health, travel, retirement benefits?

Health: Taiwan national health care, I have seen much worse, not so bad.
travel : interline, ZZ, after some years tickets with reservation, again really not the best, but far from the worst .
retirement : contract really not clear on that, and still waiting explanation about the exact meaning of the sentence. Seems you may have something if you fly here up to 65. My fair advise would be 'assumed nothing'.

[gonzo7]

thanks for the info and snide comments sky. just trying to do my due dilligence before making any commitments. the info part was the most helpful.

btw, are you based in TPE or doing the EOL thing?

what are the options for rosters if you're based in TPE or EOL?

Euh?? You can make the flights or leave the company

this is not quite what i meant. i am looking for an example of what the various rosters look like that you can expect to pick up while working there based in TPE or doing an EOL (for my case out of LAX)

as for making the flight or leaving the company, have you worked someplace that this doesnt apply?

is there still a training bond, if so, how much and how long?

Yes, don't know the details because it seems very "variable"....

variable in how the enforce it or different people are given different bonds?

No, they changed their mind, everybody is automatically chief-pilot after hiring.
Forget it NO UPGRADE!!

calm down please.. there's no need to get defensive

are they still losing a bunch of expats? if so are they working on improving their relations with expat pilots?

Yes. Relations are really friendly, problem is working conditions and how to improve it for the expat without higher cost (that's possible) but at the same time continuing to screw up the locals without them complaining.

how are the working conditions now? what makes them a "problem" as you put it?

i got a novel idea. how about they treat everone equally? based on experience and/or time served instead of race? seems like it works for most companies.

if they're not upgrading expats, can you finish your contract and apply again as a captain in order to get into the left seat?

I would be really surprised if they accepted that. BTW, how would you get PIC experience flying as F/O for CAL ???

i dont know, how do the locals upgrade without any PIC experience flying as the FO for CAL? how does anyone upgrade anywhere for that matter?

retirement: well, assuming nothing is what you should be doing at any airline these days.

[29chev]

this is not quite what i meant. i am looking for an example of what the various rosters look like that you can expect to pick up while working there based in TPE or doing an EOL (for my case out of LAX)

For most of us they work your ass off then you get 8 days off then they work your ass off again

variable in how the enforce it or different people are given different bonds

different people different bonds depending on your past experience and if you are current on type(744,343,333,ab6,738) or just on another boeing or bus. which becomes every thing from no bond to 20,000 usd +.

i got a novel idea. how about they treat everone equally? based on experience and/or time served instead of race? seems like it works for most companies.

If your hopeing for that forget it, expats are secound class and that will not change anytime soon,

i dont know, how do the locals upgrade without any PIC experience flying as the FO for CAL? how does anyone upgrade anywhere for that matter?

The locals upgrade because they are locals that will not help you.
Keep in mind most of the expats F/O's have far more time and experience than the local Capts they are flying with.

In the history of the company there have been 5 expat upgrades I understand there are 2 more guys getting the upgrade as we type. I was told the only reason they ever upgrade expats is if they absolutly have no local pilots who can do it or as now there is a large number of expats leaving and they think if a couple upgrades are given out it might slow down the departure rate. It won't ....If you need a job because you have no other work ok take a right seat, but if you are working else where don't come unless you will get a left seat.

[sky330]

Yeah, sorry Gonzo, was feeling tired, and most of these had already be treated.

btw, are you based in TPE or doing the EOL thing?

I'm on the bus based in TPE. To my knowledge, there is no ELO on the A340, but we just received a proposal, that is so unclear that I don't have a clue what it is exactly all about.

For personnal and pratical reason, I cannot move my family in Taiwan.
With 8 days HL and lossing three days in the travel back-forth TPE, I have 5 days completly jet-lagged with my family per month.
That was not my vision when I married 15 years ago

And the same time I got 5 days with home stand-by, partial home-stand-by and off days (not counting the rest) in TPE and more than 85 hours, so obviously, it should be possible to improve on that.

i got a novel idea. how about they treat everone equally?

Yes, could be great, but remember 'divide and conquer'. Management like to play one group against the other....