Ukrainian Aircraft down in Iran
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Probably minor news compared to Megxit I suppose.
From Dominic Raab MP:
Published 11 January 2020
From:Foreign & Commonwealth Office and The Rt Hon Dominic Raab MP
Following the brief detention of Her Majesty’s Ambassador to Iran Rob Macaire, Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said:
The arrest of our Ambassador in Tehran without grounds or explanation is a flagrant violation of international law. The Iranian government is at a cross-roads moment. It can continue its march towards pariah status with all the political and economic isolation that entails, or take steps to deescalate tensions and engage in a diplomatic path forwards.
From Dominic Raab MP:
Arrest of Ambassador to Iran: Foreign Secretary statement
The British Ambassador to Iran was briefly detained by Iranian authorities on 11 January.Published 11 January 2020
From:Foreign & Commonwealth Office and The Rt Hon Dominic Raab MP
Following the brief detention of Her Majesty’s Ambassador to Iran Rob Macaire, Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab said:
The arrest of our Ambassador in Tehran without grounds or explanation is a flagrant violation of international law. The Iranian government is at a cross-roads moment. It can continue its march towards pariah status with all the political and economic isolation that entails, or take steps to deescalate tensions and engage in a diplomatic path forwards.
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Just to add some first hand knowledge from someone who operated into/out of IKA fairly shortly after the period in question 
ADS-B being lost could of been down to loss of GPS signal and not related to the missile impact. We lost GPS signal in a very similar position, which subsequently led to the loss of ADS-B out.
And has happened to me pretty much every time I've departed there recently.
Also for departure we are always given the IKA 1A departure, which is basically rwy to 7000 the radar vectors.
Don't know if that's what they got, but seems every one normally gets that departure when I'm there.
ADS-B being lost could of been down to loss of GPS signal and not related to the missile impact. We lost GPS signal in a very similar position, which subsequently led to the loss of ADS-B out.
And has happened to me pretty much every time I've departed there recently.
Also for departure we are always given the IKA 1A departure, which is basically rwy to 7000 the radar vectors.
Don't know if that's what they got, but seems every one normally gets that departure when I'm there.
Shrapnel damage photos from Ukraine Investigators
Office of President of Ukraine F/b
https://m.facebook.com/president.gov.ua/photos/pcb.1862699617208230/1862726353872223/?type=3&theater
Furor in Iran and Abroad After Tehran Admits Downing Ukrainian Jetliner
https://m.facebook.com/president.gov.ua/photos/pcb.1862699617208230/1862726353872223/?type=3&theater
Mr. Danilov, the Ukrainian security official, said Iran had been forced into conceding its military had brought down the jet because the evidence of a missile strike had become overwhelmingly clear to international investigators. He said Ukrainian experts on the ground in Iran had gathered such evidence since their arrival on Thursday despite apparent Iranian efforts to complicate the investigation, including by sweeping debris into piles rather than carefully documenting it. “When a catastrophe happens, everything is supposed to stay in its place,” he said. “Every element is described, every element is photographed, every element is fixed in terms of its location and coordinates. To our great regret, this was not done.”
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From Sky News editor Deborah Haynes via Twitter:
I understand Rob Macaire, the UK's Ambassador to Tehran, today [Saturday] visited what was billed as a vigil in Tehran for victims of #Flight 752. It quickly became clear it was more of an anti-government protest than a vigil. As soon as this became apparent he left 1/
The UK ambassador -@HMATehran - then popped into a barbers for a haircut en route back to embassy. That was where he was arrested (while in barbers). Reports he had been taking photographs of the protests are untrue, a source said 2/
The UK's Rob Macaire was held by the Iranians for about 2 hours for questioning. Cue frantic phone calls between London & Tehran. He was finally released and is now safely back home. 3/3
1:52 PM [Pacific time? - Airbubba] - 11 Jan 2020
The UK ambassador -
The UK's Rob Macaire was held by the Iranians for about 2 hours for questioning. Cue frantic phone calls between London & Tehran. He was finally released and is now safely back home. 3/3
1:52 PM [Pacific time? - Airbubba] - 11 Jan 2020
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It looks like the ADS-B was certainly sending out positions for a while, it probably defaults to IRS or whatever it's called on a B-738 if GPS is not available. Cue DaveReidUK, he would possibly know.
And equally surprised if the abrupt end of transmissions from the aircraft didn't coincide with the missile strike, give or take a second or so.
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And I'm pretty sure most ADS-B installations continue to transmit without GPS since it is unavailable in cruise for much of the transit over places like Iraq and Iran but the positions still plot on FR24 and other tracking sites.
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Lonewolf_50 - "The decisions makers in the risk office have a hell of a challenge to deal with"
Nothing to argue over in your (gratefully acknowledged) post.
And on AF 447, the report, dated in summer 2012, was released a little while before my practice interests ascended, or grew at least, to include international civil aviation, so I have to assume you've stated that point correctly.
To add to the perspective about ICAO's initiatives, the uphill nature of reform and improvement projects is shown by something I observed there a few years back. MH17 was destroyed at cruise altitude in mid-July 2014. ICAO convened its "Second High-Level Safety Conference" in early February 2015 (I was there under informal observer status). No surprise that various CZ-related (and global flight tracking) initiatives or proposals were added to the agenda in tbe wake of MH17 (and MH370).
It seemed that positions articulated by the representative from Russia's delegation particularly on CZ-related items were artificially constrained, formalistic, even meant to obstruct. But as we all say, where the context is politics, weighing and deciding upon technically correct grounds should not be expected to occur.
Nothing to argue over in your (gratefully acknowledged) post.
And on AF 447, the report, dated in summer 2012, was released a little while before my practice interests ascended, or grew at least, to include international civil aviation, so I have to assume you've stated that point correctly.
To add to the perspective about ICAO's initiatives, the uphill nature of reform and improvement projects is shown by something I observed there a few years back. MH17 was destroyed at cruise altitude in mid-July 2014. ICAO convened its "Second High-Level Safety Conference" in early February 2015 (I was there under informal observer status). No surprise that various CZ-related (and global flight tracking) initiatives or proposals were added to the agenda in tbe wake of MH17 (and MH370).
It seemed that positions articulated by the representative from Russia's delegation particularly on CZ-related items were artificially constrained, formalistic, even meant to obstruct. But as we all say, where the context is politics, weighing and deciding upon technically correct grounds should not be expected to occur.
The propagation of bad news through several layers of superiors is at each layer vulnerable to delay and massaging of facts and manufacture of excuses. I doubt if there's much in the way of just culture in the IRGC, or the current White House for that matter.
Methinks the Ukrainian investigators had a clear channel up to Zelenski who clued in Rouhani on what really happened.
Methinks the Ukrainian investigators had a clear channel up to Zelenski who clued in Rouhani on what really happened.
Meanwhile the Guardian is talking about two missiles...
Iran's admission of guilt over plane crash sparks unrest in Tehran
Iran's admission of guilt over plane crash sparks unrest in Tehran
Thanks for that link, gearlever. I had not seen this level of detail yet in terms of public utterances.
Given the time of day this happened, one wonders if this operator had just taken over from the previous shift/watch, or had been up all night and was near the end of the shift? That kind of detail may not be made public, but might inform some of the human factors involved.
A senior IRGC commander, Amir Ali Hajizadeh, confessed publicly that he knew the plane had been shot down almost immediately, and asked for forgiveness. {snip}
A missile operator acting alone because of a “communications breakdown” had mistaken the Boeing 737 for a cruise missile heading towards a sensitive IRGC site, and only had 10 seconds to decide whether to fire, he said. “He was obliged to make contact and get verification. But apparently, his communications system had some disruptions. Either the ‘jamming’ system was the cause or the network was busy,” he said.
A missile operator acting alone because of a “communications breakdown” had mistaken the Boeing 737 for a cruise missile heading towards a sensitive IRGC site, and only had 10 seconds to decide whether to fire, he said. “He was obliged to make contact and get verification. But apparently, his communications system had some disruptions. Either the ‘jamming’ system was the cause or the network was busy,” he said.
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Missile hit underneath cockpit per BBC
Thanks for that link, gearlever. I had not seen this level of detail yet in terms of public utterances.
Given the time of day this happened, one wonders if this operator had just taken over from the previous shift/watch, or had been up all night and was near the end of the shift? That kind of detail may not be made public, but might inform some of the human factors involved.
Given the time of day this happened, one wonders if this operator had just taken over from the previous shift/watch, or had been up all night and was near the end of the shift? That kind of detail may not be made public, but might inform some of the human factors involved.
*com/news/av/world-51077352/iran-plane-crash-missile-struck-underneath-cockpit-ukraine
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GPS is normally working 100% fine both in Iraq and Iran, (apart from the small area on departure from IKA) the black spot is normally on the IRAQI/TURKISH border near Syria
As for your other question, yes you get radar vectors normally direct to a waypoint.
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I'd say odds of SAM unit being at least listening to airport radio traffic at 1/2 best. Actually being in direct two-way contact (without relays in command structure) less likely than that
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Some pictures of holes in the wreckage taken by a Ukrainian investigator.
ABC Australia reports: "Ukrainian officials said they did not make evidence public earlier due to concerns about being deported from Iran."
ABC Australia reports: "Ukrainian officials said they did not make evidence public earlier due to concerns about being deported from Iran."
Iran plane crash: Missile struck underneath cockpit - Ukraine
Ukraine's top security official, Oleksiy Danilov, has told the BBC that his country's investigators had already gathered evidence that a missile brought down a Ukrainian passenger jet, before Iran changed its position.
Ukraine's top security official, Oleksiy Danilov, has told the BBC that his country's investigators had already gathered evidence that a missile brought down a Ukrainian passenger jet, before Iran changed its position.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-...ockpit-ukraine
