Ethiopian airliner down in Africa
Joined: Oct 2009
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From: France
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Another similar Boeing media release:
In Consultation with the FAA, NTSB and its Customers, Boeing Supports Action to Temporarily Ground 737 MAX Operations
March 13, 2019 – Boeing continues to have full confidence in the safety of the 737 MAX. However, after consultation with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), and aviation authorities and its customers around the world, Boeing has determined -- out of an abundance of caution and in order to reassure the flying public of the aircraft’s safety -- to recommend to the FAA the temporary suspension of operations of the entire global fleet of 371 737 MAX aircraft.
“On behalf of the entire Boeing team, we extend our deepest sympathies to the families and loved ones of those who have lost their lives in these two tragic accidents,” said Dennis Muilenburg, president, CEO, Chairman of The Boeing Company.
“We are supporting this proactive step out of an abundance of caution. Safety is a core value at Boeing for as long as we have been building airplanes; and it always will be. There is no greater priority for our company and our industry. We are doing everything we can to understand the cause of the accidents in partnership with the investigators, deploy safety enhancements and help ensure this does not happen again.”
Boeing makes this recommendation and supports the decision by the FAA.
March 13, 2019 – Boeing continues to have full confidence in the safety of the 737 MAX. However, after consultation with the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), and aviation authorities and its customers around the world, Boeing has determined -- out of an abundance of caution and in order to reassure the flying public of the aircraft’s safety -- to recommend to the FAA the temporary suspension of operations of the entire global fleet of 371 737 MAX aircraft.
“On behalf of the entire Boeing team, we extend our deepest sympathies to the families and loved ones of those who have lost their lives in these two tragic accidents,” said Dennis Muilenburg, president, CEO, Chairman of The Boeing Company.
“We are supporting this proactive step out of an abundance of caution. Safety is a core value at Boeing for as long as we have been building airplanes; and it always will be. There is no greater priority for our company and our industry. We are doing everything we can to understand the cause of the accidents in partnership with the investigators, deploy safety enhancements and help ensure this does not happen again.”
Boeing makes this recommendation and supports the decision by the FAA.
Joined: Mar 2014
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From: Isle of Man
For AF447 it was quickly established that airspeed sensors problems were probably responsible for the initial 'upset' and there was a programme to replace that type of (Thales) sensor - presumably successful? For the MAX, Boeing say that the MCAS system only operates when the aircraft is OUTSIDE its 'normal envelope' (or sensors suggest it is). In the recent accidents it seems that faulty AoA sensors caused the a/c computers to think that the a/c were outside of the 'normal envelope' and erroneously invoked MCAS. Seems to me that maybe the AoA sensors should perhaps be more the focus of attention - surely there must be alternative manufacturers for similar sensors?
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 881
Likes: 67
From: UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by MPN11
UK Channel Islands airspace now closed to 737 MAX ... valuable, since none of our airports are big enough to take the aircraft anyway!
But on your large and congested islands at least you are now safe from the risk of an overflight going wrong. By the way, you call it UK CI airspace, but isn't it pretty much all inside the Brest FIR?
Wrong lol -
There are weekly charters to Spain and Tenerife flying from Jersey which were the recent domain of Germania (RIP) but the tour operator got Smart wings/Travel Service Prague in with a 737 MAX to fly from Jersey for them
Jersey Post reports today that Smart-wings had to ground their MAX fleet but can get a 737-800 in as an immediate stand in UFN
https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2...erife-service/
Originally Posted by MPN11
UK Channel Islands airspace now closed to 737 MAX ... valuable, since none of our airports are big enough to take the aircraft anyway!
But on your large and congested islands at least you are now safe from the risk of an overflight going wrong. By the way, you call it UK CI airspace, but isn't it pretty much all inside the Brest FIR?
Wrong lol -
There are weekly charters to Spain and Tenerife flying from Jersey which were the recent domain of Germania (RIP) but the tour operator got Smart wings/Travel Service Prague in with a 737 MAX to fly from Jersey for them
Jersey Post reports today that Smart-wings had to ground their MAX fleet but can get a 737-800 in as an immediate stand in UFN
https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/2...erife-service/
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 144
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From: Southampton
If one presumes the grounded aircraft will be towed to an unused corner of their respective airports rather than taking up valuable space on the apron, or at gates, would preventative preparations be made for an extended grounding? How long can the aircraft be grounded for in a "cold" state without requiring extensive checks and maintenance prior to returning to service?
Would the airports be levying a "storage charge"?
Would the airports be levying a "storage charge"?
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 5,896
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From: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
FAA statement on the grounding:
3/13/19 3:00pm Update
Statement from the FAA on Ethiopian Airlines
The FAA is ordering the temporary grounding of Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operated by U.S. airlines or in U.S. territory. The agency made this decision as a result of the data gathering process and new evidence collected at the site and analyzed today. This evidence, together with newly refined satellite data available to FAA this morning, led to this decision.
The grounding will remain in effect pending further investigation, including examination of information from the aircraft’s flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders. An FAA team is in Ethiopia assisting the NTSB as parties to the investigation of the Flight 302 accident. The agency will continue to investigate.
Statement from the FAA on Ethiopian Airlines
The FAA is ordering the temporary grounding of Boeing 737 MAX aircraft operated by U.S. airlines or in U.S. territory. The agency made this decision as a result of the data gathering process and new evidence collected at the site and analyzed today. This evidence, together with newly refined satellite data available to FAA this morning, led to this decision.
The grounding will remain in effect pending further investigation, including examination of information from the aircraft’s flight data recorders and cockpit voice recorders. An FAA team is in Ethiopia assisting the NTSB as parties to the investigation of the Flight 302 accident. The agency will continue to investigate.
Joined: Mar 2010
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From: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.
Originally Posted by agnostique75
The UK Channel Islands didn't close their airports but their airspace, nuance....[img]images/smilies/wink2.gif
Joined: Mar 2019
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From: ENHD
In the recent accidents it seems that faulty AoA sensors caused the a/c computers to think that the a/c were outside of the 'normal envelope' and erroneously invoked MCAS. Seems to me that maybe the AoA sensors should perhaps be more the focus of attention - surely there must be alternative manufacturers for similar sensors?
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: UK
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Ireland
The 787 was grounded for three months in 2013. I assume they will be checked at the same time as the software patch and AoA sensor re-jig is done.
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From: USA
If I remember AF447 correctly it was all speculation as there was no data until over a year later when the recorders were recovered. At that time, if my memory serves me right, data showed the flight crew member in the right seat was commanding pitch up with his joystick while the pilot in the left seat was either neutral or pitch down. Basic flaw of joysticks on 2 crew cockpits in that they do not provide input by feel between flight crew. Thales sensors were speculation due to failure history.
I keep looking here to see if there is data confirming why Ethiopian crashed similar to the data on Lion Air. Have I missed it? In the case of the Lion Air there was the history of the previous flight where the pilot experienced the same sensor malfunction yet flew to destination. Ethoiopian says the previous flight was normal with no write-ups. It reminds me so much of the AA DC-10 in Chicago where the action was to shoot first and ask questions later with the evidence of what happened lying on the runway. Yes, the DC-10 had many faults resulting from rushing into production but engines falling off wings was not one of them. Engines falling off wings causing the slats to retract was a design flaw.
Now the media is interviewing MAX pilots who say they have spent their time as MAX pilots terrified of their life due to control problems. How come they did not say this before? And we have Donald Trump saying airplanes today are too complex for pilots to fly. It just keeps getting worse and worse.
I keep looking here to see if there is data confirming why Ethiopian crashed similar to the data on Lion Air. Have I missed it? In the case of the Lion Air there was the history of the previous flight where the pilot experienced the same sensor malfunction yet flew to destination. Ethoiopian says the previous flight was normal with no write-ups. It reminds me so much of the AA DC-10 in Chicago where the action was to shoot first and ask questions later with the evidence of what happened lying on the runway. Yes, the DC-10 had many faults resulting from rushing into production but engines falling off wings was not one of them. Engines falling off wings causing the slats to retract was a design flaw.
Now the media is interviewing MAX pilots who say they have spent their time as MAX pilots terrified of their life due to control problems. How come they did not say this before? And we have Donald Trump saying airplanes today are too complex for pilots to fly. It just keeps getting worse and worse.
Joined: Jun 2001
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From: Rockytop, Tennessee, USA
Joined: Mar 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATCO
Posts: 8,023
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From: Often in Jersey, but mainly in the past.