Air Asia Indonesia Lost Contact from Surabaya to Singapore
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ICAO PROCEDURES
Assuming that the NTSC published their Draft accident report to the comment chain at the end of August, then there is a 60 day comment period. The comments would then be incorporated into the final report before we can see the collective result.
ICAO accident investigation outline here:http://clacsec.lima.icao.int/Reunion...ssion%2011.pdf
I think we will have to wait a couple of months more before we actually see the results.
I sure hope they address the dynamics of the loss of control, not just the ingredients that went into it.
ICAO accident investigation outline here:http://clacsec.lima.icao.int/Reunion...ssion%2011.pdf
I think we will have to wait a couple of months more before we actually see the results.
I sure hope they address the dynamics of the loss of control, not just the ingredients that went into it.
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AirAsia QZ8501 Final Report to be completed 'This Month'
BeritaSatu News via Google Translate:
BeritaSatu News via Google Translate:
BeritaSatu.com -- Minister of Communications Ignatius Jonan, said they still impose sanctions in the form of prohibition of operating permits Surabaya-Singapore service to airlines Indonesia Air Asia (IAA). The results of investigations National Transportation Safety Committee (NTSC) are expected to come out this month.
Still sanctions, according Jonan, because NTSC has not submitted a final report on the investigation carried out on the crash by flight number QZ8501 IAA, whose occurrence on December 28 2014.
"NTSC Results should be out soon, this October," said Jonan in Jakarta, recently.
Still sanctions, according Jonan, because NTSC has not submitted a final report on the investigation carried out on the crash by flight number QZ8501 IAA, whose occurrence on December 28 2014.
"NTSC Results should be out soon, this October," said Jonan in Jakarta, recently.
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"NTSC Results should be out soon, this October," said Jonan in Jakarta, recently.
Nothing here yet:
NTSC
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Do you u want a report that is accurate, complete and one that contains accurate conclusions, or do you want one that is rushed and inaccurate because it was promised by a certain date.
No doubt the rushed report would then be torn apart by the wannabe AAIB armchair investigators that now infest PPRuNe.
No doubt the rushed report would then be torn apart by the wannabe AAIB armchair investigators that now infest PPRuNe.
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Floyd3593:
There is no deadline. The ICAO Annex 13 calls for a Final Report to be published within one year of the accident (so by December), if possible. Otherwise, an Interim Report should be released on each anniversary of the accident.
However in practice, it's rare to see a formal Interim Report, and the Final Report might only come out years after the accident -- if ever. This is true not just for the Indonesians but also for the US NTSB, etc.
Having said that, I don't think they will delay this particular accident report too much longer.
Icarus2001:
They have a saying over there: "jam karet" (rubber time). Indonesians can be flexible with time; sometimes it's like the entire archipelago is operating on Island Time. "Sabar, tenang!" (patience, relax) they'd say.
But once again the Minister of Transportation Ignatius Jonan is over-promising and under-delivering. Simply not professional on his part.
Skeleton:
I'm doubtful the delays have anything to do with accuracy.
For a high profile major investigation like this one, no doubt Indonesia's KNKT is closely collaborating with experts from the various parties (including BEA, Airbus, etc.) and will reach good conclusions. But sometimes the production quality of the actual reports they release leave much to be desired, with basic editorial mistakes, etc.
When is the date that the investigation results MUST be published by?
However in practice, it's rare to see a formal Interim Report, and the Final Report might only come out years after the accident -- if ever. This is true not just for the Indonesians but also for the US NTSB, etc.
Having said that, I don't think they will delay this particular accident report too much longer.
Icarus2001:
Another month goes by and another Airbus falls from the sky.
An interesting time to release the report.
An interesting time to release the report.
But once again the Minister of Transportation Ignatius Jonan is over-promising and under-delivering. Simply not professional on his part.
Skeleton:
Do you u want a report that is accurate, complete and one that contains accurate conclusions, or do you want one that is rushed and inaccurate because it was promised by a certain date.
For a high profile major investigation like this one, no doubt Indonesia's KNKT is closely collaborating with experts from the various parties (including BEA, Airbus, etc.) and will reach good conclusions. But sometimes the production quality of the actual reports they release leave much to be desired, with basic editorial mistakes, etc.
Do you u want a report that is accurate,
complete and one that contains accurate conclusions,
or do you want one that is rushed and inaccurate because it was promised by a certain date
I see you are from the ACT? Government employee? Must not RUSH these things.
Having lived in Indonesia for a while about 20 years ago, there is another saying that is probably relevant. It translates something like:
"When the rice is ready, we will pick it"
So, when the report is ready, they will release it
They've gotten better, but the Indonesian culture does not readily lend itself to rigid schedules
"When the rice is ready, we will pick it"
So, when the report is ready, they will release it
They've gotten better, but the Indonesian culture does not readily lend itself to rigid schedules
We can be reasonably certain that crew action / inaction significantly contributed to the loss of control. With an Indonesian PIC and a French FO there must have been some interesting crew dynamics before / during the upset. Under such circumstances it is quite natural for different parties to the investigation to form culturally biased conclusions, and it is a rather lengthy process to prepare a wording that is acceptable to all, especially in a culture where seeking consensus and avoiding loss of face for everyone involved is paramount.
As a reminder, the SilkAir report took three years to produce, and contained no definite conclusions (though the factual information was there, allowing everyone to draw their own).
As a reminder, the SilkAir report took three years to produce, and contained no definite conclusions (though the factual information was there, allowing everyone to draw their own).
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How many major accidents reports ,especially complicated ones have been published after 11 months?
So a bit of patience.
Looking at the Sukhoi SSJ100 final report published by the NTSC , the independance and the quality and of its concluions were quite good.
I trend to trust them more than some of the ( older ) French BEA reports.
So a bit of patience.
Looking at the Sukhoi SSJ100 final report published by the NTSC , the independance and the quality and of its concluions were quite good.
I trend to trust them more than some of the ( older ) French BEA reports.
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"the Indonesian culture does not readily lend itself to rigid schedules"
absolutely correct - everyone will have to agree before it goes out
of course sometimes, just to confound the foreigners, they do something earlier than expected................... part of the fun of the place
absolutely correct - everyone will have to agree before it goes out
of course sometimes, just to confound the foreigners, they do something earlier than expected................... part of the fun of the place
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not so Bud - I go to Indonesia often and have spent quite some time there - I really like the place and the people
but you would be crazy not to recognise that there are very valid cultural differences - and I'm not saying which is best note - there's a lot to be said for the family values and consensus approach of the Javanese - especially when you compare it to say the USA.
We can point at any country and note "strange" behaviour and I sure as hell don't exempt the UK from that - it's just different that's all
but you would be crazy not to recognise that there are very valid cultural differences - and I'm not saying which is best note - there's a lot to be said for the family values and consensus approach of the Javanese - especially when you compare it to say the USA.
We can point at any country and note "strange" behaviour and I sure as hell don't exempt the UK from that - it's just different that's all
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some with experience on a320 might understand it more than me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8agL0N9Hcvs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8agL0N9Hcvs
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It's a hoax, definitely not from QZ8501.
That recording first surfaced in connection with the Adam Air 737-300 crash in 2007, although at that time Indonesian authorities dismissed the recording as not authentic.
That recording first surfaced in connection with the Adam Air 737-300 crash in 2007, although at that time Indonesian authorities dismissed the recording as not authentic.
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If only all Asians across all of Asia were all the same and did everything in the same way (and, chuck in Aussies, Kiwis, Europeans - even Brits, Africans, Los Americanos, Middle East and FSU nationals, etc. across the big earth), all would be lovely. 
And, if everyone had the same family values and consensus approach as some, certainly far from all, of the Javanese - especially when you compare it to say the UK, we could all happily sing kumbaya and wouldn't need to sit around smoking peace pipes. Charming!
Meanwhile back in reality land, we can all hopefully, and patiently, await more findings and eventual results of a quality investigation. We are the world ...
And, if everyone had the same family values and consensus approach as some, certainly far from all, of the Javanese - especially when you compare it to say the UK, we could all happily sing kumbaya and wouldn't need to sit around smoking peace pipes. Charming!
Meanwhile back in reality land, we can all hopefully, and patiently, await more findings and eventual results of a quality investigation. We are the world ...
