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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 10th Mar 2014, 16:40
  #1381 (permalink)  
 
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The US (and probably other) Navy operates hydrophone networks to track submarines. There's other listening posts. When the USS Scorpion collapsed underwater, research hydrophones in Newfoundland and the Canaries caught the sound and triangulation helped narrow the search.
I would assume this sort of technology requires line of site (or whatever it is called underwater). I am guessing that the previous incident you are talking of happened in the Atlantic? Where it is thought this aircraft went down is almost surrounded by land, I do not know how the sound wave would get around these masses.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 16:49
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The position of that debris field would indicate it stayed on the flight plan route or close to it.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 16:53
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@Roadster280

Unless extended range is enabled which will give a 70km cell range

Another quiet, lurking telecom engineer here too.....
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 16:56
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Tribute page to the captain with pics of his sim set up at home:

TRIBUTE: Who exactly is Malaysia Airlines Captain Zaharie Shah of MH370? - Sharelor

(sorry if link already posted, I haven't seen it here.)
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 16:59
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Hello all. I only have 1 post but I will try to make it a good one.

In regards to someone referencing cabin pressure. A little more info...

On October 25, 1999, a chartered Learjet 35 was scheduled to fly from Orlando, Florida to Dallas, Texas. Early in the flight the aircraft, which was cruising at altitude on autopilot, quickly lost cabin pressure. All on board were incapacitated due to hypoxia — a lack of oxygen. The aircraft failed to make the westward turn toward Dallas over north Florida. It continued flying over the southern and midwestern United States for almost four hours and 1,500 miles (2,400 km). The plane ran out of fuel and crashed into a field near Aberdeen, South Dakota after an uncontrolled descent.

Last edited by RedRobot; 10th Mar 2014 at 17:42.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:00
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Flight Following and South East Asia Authorities

in light of today's switch to searching mainland Malaysia, The Malacca Straits and further north to the Andaman Sea.
Can a Airliner traverse the whole of Malaysia without anyone detecting it?
Also should we not have heard from Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam's Aviation Authorities about any efforts they might be taking to find this missing aircraft?
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:05
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Can a Airliner traverse the whole of Malaysia without anyone detecting it?
If ever there is a chance of a 'cover up', this might be the only one that makes sense. In other words, if the aircraft really did cross over to the Malacca Straits and M'sia didn't know about it from the onset, it might reveal a severe and embarrassing gap in the air defense and radar coverage in that part of the country.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:08
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Stanley11, link to news in post #1385 under the map
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:14
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barti01,

this is basically the same area as the previous info about Vung Tau debris?
Yes.
Vung Tau Port Authority already had a passing ship check the area and it reported nothing special. The Port Authority have also sent out a fast boat, but it will not have arrived before darkness.

I suspect this is also the same sighting that has been reported "off Hong Kong", as it originated from the HK aviation authorities after a pilot report.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:24
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AN2 driver,

The position of that debris field would indicate it stayed on the flight plan route or close to it.
If you mean the Vung Tau sighting,
Sorry to disappoint you but in previous postings the flight plan route was over the Vietnamese mainland via BITIS over TSN and HCMC.

Last edited by snowfalcon2; 10th Mar 2014 at 17:35.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:25
  #1391 (permalink)  
 
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Despite some critics, it seems authorities giving there best:

Asia News | South East Asia News | AsiaOne
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:30
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In 1979 a Varig Boeing B707 took off from Tokyo Narita to Los Angeles. The cargo aircraft lost radio contact 30 minutes after takeoff.

The remains of the aircraft nor of the crew were never found.
The cause of the incident was concluded as cabin depressurization, which killed the crew.

1979 Boeing 707-323C disappearance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:43
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Egyptair 990, intact, went straight in 60 NM off Nantucket. Very little debris on the surface. Small oil sheen on the surface when the first Coast Guard ship arrived near the position where transponder contact was lost. Depth at the site was 250-270 feet. U S Navy found the boxes from the pingers, and what happened in the cockpit was subsequently revealed.

Excerpts from the ATC transcript:
6:54:00 R86 Egyptair nine ninety radar contact lost recycles transponder squawk one seven one two
.....
7:05:29 R86 So yeah could you just switch Lufthansa over and ah ah maybe ask him I could I could ask him
7:05:32 B18 Yeah send him back when you're done
7:05:35 R86 All right thank you
7:05:36 B18 Sure
7:05:37 R86 Alpha zulu
7:05:55 DLH499 New York Center Lufthansa four ninety nine heavy is uh one two nine uh one two five nine two
7:06:02 R86 Lufthansa four ninety nine New York Center I could use your assistance could you try calling a Egyptair niner niner zero on this frequency and see if he's ah checks on
7:06:13 DLH499 Okay standby Egyptair niner niner zero this is Lufthansa four ninety nine do you read
7:06:30 DLH499 Egyptair niner niner zero this is Lufthansa four ninety nine do you read
7:06:43 DLH499 I am sorry there is no reply New York and at one two one five we have no ELT
7:06:51 R86 Lufthansa four ninety nine I want to thank you for your assistance you can return to Boston center now.
If the co-pilot had waited until mid-way across the pond, might never have found him.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:48
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@Wire_Mark - agreed, but so far as I am aware, ERCs are to be found in sparsely populated interior regions, like Australia, Canada, Russia etc. I don't know if there any in the area under consideration.

On the 19 whose phones have "rung", thinking about it, I suppose the home network could be configured to provide ring tone to the calling party while the mobile is paged. This isn't done in European and N American networks, but I don't know about China. I do know that so called "Colour Ring Back Tones" are very popular in Asia, where the caller hears music while the called party is located. This may be behind this story. Either way, examination of the signaling records will reveal whether it is "synthetic" ring tone, or the mobile genuinely has responded to a page. I expect the Chinese have looked into this.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:48
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Re the 1979 Varig Boeing B707 cargo that disappeared in the Pacific with some painting collection and was never found.

"The cause of the accident was concluded as cabin depressurization."

Hmmm.

That quote is not particularly credible. If you look at the source, it sounds more like pure speculation. Newspaper article twenty years later.

(I lived in Brazil at the time. The captain, who had survived the Varig Ermenonville fire and crash, frequented the same car dealership which I patronized. After that first crash, he was said to go weekly on a pilgrimage to Aparecida.)
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:50
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Originally Posted by Mark654321
Can a Airliner traverse the whole of Malaysia without anyone detecting it?
Malaysia's civil/military declared PSR (ENR 1.6) coverage depicted here:


Google map version
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:56
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Just watching a female pilot on Sky news saying that having spoken with colleagues the most likely scenario is that the aircraft commenced a turning manouvre and the wing flexed beyond tolerance leading to structural failure, or that a short circuit started a very intense and fast spreading cockpit fire. Im sorry but where do they get these people from?
From here perhaps? But being serious, those people are asking about the lack of ELT signals, just think back to the crash of Air Inter 148 where the ELT was destroyed on impact, they aren't indestructible......
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:56
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Post 1334 - I was wondering the exact same thing, are the Trent Engines monitored in live time (via ACARS?) by RR?? no answers I've seen thus far, and I was under the impression possibly these days, that faults and alike are automatically sent back to the engine manufacturer for remedial action(s)?
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 17:57
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Exclamation Common sense, logic!

I am not a professional pilot, so I will not be trying to add anything to that side of the thread, although I have read all the comments with interest.

I am a retired police detective inspector, serving in the UK and HKG, leading serious crime squads and intel units, who moved into AVSEC after my police service. I spent several years managing airport security ops for a number of airlines at a couple of 'hot' Asian airports.

Therefore, I will restrict my comments to the case-solving and AVSEC side of these events concerning MH370. First up, common sense and logic invariably worm best when trying to figure out these cases. Somebody, somewhere, knows a lot more than they are letting on for public consumption and I'd wager that various nations and agencies are not sharing what they know with the others involved.

A large object, such as a B777 cannot simply disappear without somebody having some knowledge of its last known whereabouts. Failure to plot it on military radar seems highly unlikely. Failure to share that information seems rather more likely. In a busy shipping area it also seems highly unlikely that somebody wouldn't have seen something.

It seems highly unlikely that it could have evaded detection and landed somewhere after a highjacking. First, it would need a considerable runway to accommodate it and, second, it would have had to overfly a hefty chunk of land and somebody would most likely have seen something.

It seems much more likely, unfortunately, that it has gone down somewhere and the fact that nothing at all of it has been found strongly indicates that the search is not being conducted in the right area.

That brings back round the loop to the failure of parties to share what they know of its whereabouts from various military and government services who track even the smallest of aircraft flying in airspace around their nations' borders.

But there is pretty much no other logical conclusion that they are looking in the wrong places.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 18:05
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If there was a structural failure for what ever reason, I have no doubt we will find the aircraft.

If a government wanted the aircraft or the people on board for what ever reason, then I doubt we will find it. It would not be that hard to spoof the ATC system with another aircraft with a mode s transponder strapped to the boeings call sign.
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