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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:30
  #1321 (permalink)  
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All over the place sites are reporting things like this: "Aviation sources in China report that radar data suggest a steep and sudden descent of the aircraft, during which the track of the aircraft changed from 024 degrees to 333 degrees. The aircraft was estimated to contact Ho Chi Minh Control Center (Vietnam) at 01:20L, but contact was never established." (Crash: Malaysia B772 over Gulf of Thailand on Mar 8th 2014, aircraft missing) ..

However, I think they are just misreading the track log which STARTS with 333 degrees ... Flight Track Log ? MAS370 ? 08-Mar-2014 ? WMKK / KUL - ZBAA / PEK ? FlightAware

Unless time goes backwards?
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:30
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Port Vale - those co-ordinates are only just over 100 km from Ho Chi Minh City and 50 km offshore, in what I would imagine would be very busy shipping waters. Also would suspect radar coverage there, and this would be appx an hr further into the flight than the last reported contact? EDited to add PortVale has added a map to his post which I was unable to do.

Last edited by thelearner; 10th Mar 2014 at 13:33. Reason: updated
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:31
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With so many countries, aircraft and ships involved can someone tell me who coordinates the search, decides how long to carry on looking (an earlier post made reference to the Air France wreckage took two years to find), and who pays for the costs incurred? Or does each individual governments pick up their own costs?
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:31
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On Sunday, MMEA's search team found a "yellowish" oil slick about 10 miles (16km) long, some 20 nautical miles (37km) south of the last point of contact of MH370
Tests on a sample of the oil slick found off the Kelantan coast reveal that it was not from the missing Malaysia Airlines MH370 flight.

Malaysian Maritime Enforcement Agency (MMEA) eastern region enforcement chief Datuk Nasir Adam revealed test results showed that it was bunkering activities.
"This is information I received from Kuala Lumpur. The oil slick is from bunkering activities and not from an aircraft," said Nasir at the MMEA's base in Tok Bali here on Monday.
Missing MH370: Oil slick not from plane, says MMEA - Nation | The Star Online
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:32
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"@philipat, it's not especially unusual for passengers to fail to make it to the gate and be offloaded. It happens all the time."

In my experience in Asia, that is a lot for a single flight. It may be nothing but it is important to know who they are, did they later collect their bags or just disappear etc. My point was that this was not, as the other poster suggested, just a case of "Check-in" no shows because their bags were checked and on board, but of course offloaded prior to departure. I also note that KUL is a great airport for making very short connections (As is SIN) which is why I use it a lot as the connex times to Europe are very good in both directions and I have never had a problem with bags not making the transit.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:34
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@PortVale - found NOT to be a debris trail from MH370 - just ullage from a ship.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:35
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I assure you, it's normal for people to check in and no show at the gate. They get lost in the airport, too much time in Duty Free, what ever, it happens all the time.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:36
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@yssy-myelin this is a new report as of today, not linked to yesterday's reported oil slick. You can see in the above photo small debris maybe?
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:37
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Debris found at N9.72 E107.42
Hell. Have you seen how far this is from the actual (supposed) position of the aircraft.

And see how close to the coast.

How can an airliner of that size enter into Ho-Chi Min controlled area without being seen? If the airliner was going down in this area, Ho-Chi Min would have had this on the PSR for sure. And I would assume that if the aircraft would not repsond to controller atempts to contacts, they would scramble at least two Jets two intercept. No one penetrates controlled area, not answering, no transponder. This would certainly lead to an intercept.

Surface water currents in the Gulf of Thailand

The debris drift would not go in this direction ;-)

This is just rubbish of some freighter ...
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:40
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@phillipa: "I think you are missing the point. Their bags were already checked and on board but removed by MH before the aircraft departed. So it is highly relevant to ask who were they? Did they ever show to collect the bags? What was in the bags?"

Not so, I believe. I believe they were checked in but it wasn't confirmed the bags were loaded. They could have been connecting passengers from another flight booked through and boarding passes issued, but they never made it to the gate. Various possibilities, including late arrival of their inbound connecting flight, would preclude them from boarding and also preclude their bags from being loaded.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:41
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"Hong Kong's Air Traffic Control Center reported on Mar 10th 2014 around 17:30L (09:30Z) that an airliner enroute on airway L642 reported via HF radio that they saw a large field of debris at position N9.72 E107.42 about 80nm southeast of Ho Chi Minh City, about 50nm off the south-eastern coast of Vietnam in the South China Sea and about 281nm northeast of the last known radar position. Ships have been dispatched to the reported debris field."

Sea depth at the reported location appears to be around only 50M, to 100M at most.

This location is a very long way from last reported position? Doesn't seem to be right.

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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:41
  #1332 (permalink)  
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Just watching the current KL news conference. After negating another oil slick discovery and also telling reporters the 2 stolen passport suspects did not appear Asian. He reiterated that all Malaysian authority checks were conducted in accordance with policy and procedure. They seem to be very quick to non implicate their own authorities.
Surely they can't have completed investigations on their own protocols for safety and security checks.
I'm sorry but these News conferences are only getting worse. There probably needs to be a Security person briefing the Passport case and the DCA gentleman maybe stick to the ongoing search. It's tough I know . But I thought the Asiana crash news conferences held in the states were a lot better handled.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:44
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Just watching a female pilot on Sky news saying that having spoken with colleagues the most likely scenario is that the aircraft commenced a turning manouvre and the wing flexed beyond tolerance leading to structural failure, or that a short circuit started a very intense and fast spreading cockpit fire. Im sorry but where do they get these people from?
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:44
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"How could they have located and removed the luggage from five no-shows already in the hold, and still leave within six minutes of scheduled departure time? "

Especially on the late flights, they are typically closing the doors 10-15 minutes ahead of scheduled departure. Either they find and offload the bags OR the passengers turn up. Whichever comes first generally. And after the longhaul heavy traffic is already gone, taxi time is very short, so its entirely possible

But five is a large number and, whilst there may be nothing at all to it, is does warrant examination. And I'm sure they have done so. Just not given out any information.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:47
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Originally Posted by Ida down
Never have I seen a blog like this on PPrune, nor any other aviation blog for that matter. In every airline, from the cleaners to the Senior C and T Capts everyone has a opinion. And none of us have a clue. My kids fly, and they report this is nbr 1 conversation on all flight decks, in Australia, anyway. May tomorrow give us insight, and the poor families, at least put out of some of their misery, so this thing can be solved, and people laid to rest.
There have been so many daft posts here, both from passengers and crew. It's annoying when you see a stupid post about meteors or a conspiracy. Sometimes I think why can't these people go get their kicks and dream up theories about Emilia Earhardt or DB Cooper. But really I understand.
Psychologically it is more comforting to make up a implausible theory than to simply accept that so little is known that no conclusions can be drawn. I intend to fly in that zone next week, so this incident troubles me too.

The only thing that comforts me is my belief that with the resources that are being applied to this incident, something will be found, although it could take a while yet. The Gulf of Thailand is a big place to search. If something has happened where the aircraft has ditched and sunk in one piece then we may be waiting some time for more information.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:48
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Curiouser and curiouser. From AH:

According to the states run Chinese news agency Xinhua Chinese police established that one of the Chinese passengers listed on the manifest never left China, is still at home and in possession of his passport, therefore was not on the accident flight. The passenger's passport had not been lost or stolen, the numbers on his passport and the passport number noted on the manifest are identical however.

Malaysia's Defense Ministry said, that as result of the verified discrepancies between passenger manifest and people on board of the aircraft, the Austrian and the Italian, the entire manifest is under scrutiny. At least 4 names are suspicious and are being investigated with the participation by the FBI from the USA.

China Southern Airlines, code share partner of Malaysia Airlines, reported that they sold a total of 7 tickets for the accident flight, amongst them the tickets for the Italian and the Austrian as well as one Dutch, one Malaysian, two Ukrainians and one Chinese.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:48
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I just watched the KL news conference.
What I cannot understand is why they are concentrating all their search resources on the Malacca Strait? This would imply that they are certain the aircraft did a 180 and flew back across Malaysia. If this had been the case then they should have picked the aircraft up using their defense radar. Passengers would have been able to use cellphones at that point as well.
Extending the search in the Gulf of Thailand, or even the Gulf of Tonkin would make more sense if wreckage is really what they expect to find.
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:49
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SAR Vietnam update

Short update at the end of today's air search in the Vietnam area:

- Vietnamese helicopter Mi-171 02 and the DHC-6 have returned to base at Phu Quoc and reported no positive sightings.

- The Director, Maritime Activities at Vung Tao port authorities reported that it had requested a passing containership to investigate the "metal debris" sightings off Vung Tao reported by a Hong Kong aircraft. However, the containership had detected no such fragments during 1730 to 1900 local time. There is a speculation the sighting may have been off nylon fishing nets or "sponges". Many fishing boats are in the area.

- Tomorrow, Vietnam plans to extend the search further northeast, apparently off the eastern coast in the South China Sea area.

- "A total of 34 aircraft and 40 vessels from various countries are involved in the search".

Source: Dan Tri via Google translate
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:50
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If the fake passport holders were Africans (seems likely now ) then does that make hijacking/terrorism or people-smuggling more likely?
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Old 10th Mar 2014, 13:50
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Originally Posted by yssy.ymel
@PortVale - found NOT to be a debris trail from MH370 - just ullage from a ship.
Given that ullage is the unfilled space in a container above the liquid, that seems unlikely.
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