Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Geneva
Age: 57
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Southern Ocean Images - they may have better
My guess is that two Australian P3s and a C130, a USN P8, a NZ P3, and an Australian warship are not being launched on the basis of photographic evidence as poor as that shown to the media by the Australians.
It must be possible that the US National Reconnaissance Office KH11 satellite constellation has produced high quality images which we have (obviously) not seen, or which have been degraded.
It must be possible that the US National Reconnaissance Office KH11 satellite constellation has produced high quality images which we have (obviously) not seen, or which have been degraded.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Found in Toronto
Posts: 615
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: entre ici et là
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quote [parabellum]:
"The FMC is very useful for an established route, SID or approach but don't get mesmerised by what may or may not have been entered into the FMC, in this case, quite possible that from 01.19 the rest of the flight was conducted in FLCH and HDG Select."
While the maneuvers after IGARI are probably indicative of the plane being under control and being flown in an evasive manner, the sudden altitude changescould indicate the plane was not fully under control (?). If the plane ended in the far southern reaches of the Indian Ocean could that indicate an attempted return to KL by a pilot in an incapacitated state who then passed out after setting HDG? Just asking.
"The FMC is very useful for an established route, SID or approach but don't get mesmerised by what may or may not have been entered into the FMC, in this case, quite possible that from 01.19 the rest of the flight was conducted in FLCH and HDG Select."
While the maneuvers after IGARI are probably indicative of the plane being under control and being flown in an evasive manner, the sudden altitude changescould indicate the plane was not fully under control (?). If the plane ended in the far southern reaches of the Indian Ocean could that indicate an attempted return to KL by a pilot in an incapacitated state who then passed out after setting HDG? Just asking.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
H alpha,
You're right that the single-epoch released image just looks like a wave. The Australian government person interviewed said that the two objects appeared to be "awash", which implies multiple views to see this happening. Then again, a stack of containers, or an upturned yacht would be "awash" too.
I think it's reasonable to assume that there is much more imaging available; however, the resolution of the images released is of order of a meter, at least for sunlight reflecting off the surface, so it's probably adequate for the purpose. The tone of the Australians today has certainly been very positive. It seems hard to imagine they'd have made a statement/released the four-day-old image if they weren't quietly confident of finding wreckage.
You're right that the single-epoch released image just looks like a wave. The Australian government person interviewed said that the two objects appeared to be "awash", which implies multiple views to see this happening. Then again, a stack of containers, or an upturned yacht would be "awash" too.
I think it's reasonable to assume that there is much more imaging available; however, the resolution of the images released is of order of a meter, at least for sunlight reflecting off the surface, so it's probably adequate for the purpose. The tone of the Australians today has certainly been very positive. It seems hard to imagine they'd have made a statement/released the four-day-old image if they weren't quietly confident of finding wreckage.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: wales
Age: 81
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting!
Until now, most people with a knowledge of Inmarsat operation, latency and other errors have said that the 'ping distance' is accurate to +/- 5 km. If this new estimate of +/- 100miles is true, then even the very limited conclusions that can be drawn from analysing the 5 previous ping arcs would become virtually useless as the arcs become even more 'blurred'.
Until now, most people with a knowledge of Inmarsat operation, latency and other errors have said that the 'ping distance' is accurate to +/- 5 km. If this new estimate of +/- 100miles is true, then even the very limited conclusions that can be drawn from analysing the 5 previous ping arcs would become virtually useless as the arcs become even more 'blurred'.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: australia
Age: 81
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Once Queensland had a premier famous for "Feeding the chooks." His press conferences always gave provable facts..he kept a little back for his favorites and gave enough that everyone could write a good story without asking awkward questions.
It seems Australia has taken this art to an even higher degree. I think at least now the facts we get will be straight even though they may not be the whole story.
It seems Australia has taken this art to an even higher degree. I think at least now the facts we get will be straight even though they may not be the whole story.
@OleOle
Quote:
Originally Posted by OleOle
I understand each wing tank of the 772 can hold 35000 liters, if they didn't rupture that's a potential for 35t of buoyancy.
Even if intact, the wing tanks have vents, and I would expect them to be filled with water after this length of time.
NB: density difference means 35000 litres of fuel at SG= 0.85 would have only ~ 5 tonnes of buoyancy
Originally Posted by OleOle
I understand each wing tank of the 772 can hold 35000 liters, if they didn't rupture that's a potential for 35t of buoyancy.
Even if intact, the wing tanks have vents, and I would expect them to be filled with water after this length of time.
NB: density difference means 35000 litres of fuel at SG= 0.85 would have only ~ 5 tonnes of buoyancy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Patterson, NY
Age: 66
Posts: 436
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Norwegian car carrier Hoegh St. Petersburg has reached the area in the southern Indian Ocean off Australia where two floating objects, suspected to be debris from the missing Malaysian jetliner, were spotted, the ship owner’s said on Thursday. The cargo ship is currently 30 NM from the location of the objects.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Pasadena
Posts: 633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
150kms isn't too shabby, given the level of knowledge otherwise.
Plus, that gives the width of a very long arc. If things drift by maybe several 10s of miles per day, that makes even a point from ten days ago a swath that wide by now.
Plus, that gives the width of a very long arc. If things drift by maybe several 10s of miles per day, that makes even a point from ten days ago a swath that wide by now.
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Gatwick
Age: 60
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
ELT
Are we to assume that the distress radiobeacon failed in this case, or that some of the data that the search and rescue teams have been using includes that received by this device?
I understand that these devices can react to either water immersion or impact forces?
Would be grateful for an answer from someone with knowledge.
I understand that these devices can react to either water immersion or impact forces?
Would be grateful for an answer from someone with knowledge.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Warks
Posts: 274
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
A flight crew combing the southern Indian Ocean for the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 said they are getting radar hits of “significant size,” indicating something lying below the water’s surface, ABC News America also reports.
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: wales
Age: 81
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
say original 180mls wide ie 90mls either side of a centre line, the drifting is hopefully only in one direction so you lose the other 90mlies.
Right now the width of search area would be about the same as day 1 but increasing as every day goes by,
If it landed on the centre line you get 10x20 =200, compared to original 180, if it landed on eastern edge you get 90+200 = 290
however if it landed on west edge 180 of the 200 is the original area
Right now the width of search area would be about the same as day 1 but increasing as every day goes by,
If it landed on the centre line you get 10x20 =200, compared to original 180, if it landed on eastern edge you get 90+200 = 290
however if it landed on west edge 180 of the 200 is the original area
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: london
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Although ive been tracking this thread very regularly! I may of missed this question answered.
What about these image findings via sat, they are 4 days old, im sure daily images from this area have been rescanned? Which would indicate with current drift approximations more debris or potentially finding the same? But nothing more recent has been published anyway.
Either that or now due to currents/weather nothing is left afloat which means it was an awful amount of effort to find nothing.
What about these image findings via sat, they are 4 days old, im sure daily images from this area have been rescanned? Which would indicate with current drift approximations more debris or potentially finding the same? But nothing more recent has been published anyway.
Either that or now due to currents/weather nothing is left afloat which means it was an awful amount of effort to find nothing.
For Future "Black Box" Designers......
Bearing in mind how long it took to find and later recover the Air France AF447 Flt Data Recorder and Cockpit Voice Recorder, I have often wondered why these, valuable to the search and subsequent enquiry, items are not given some form of barostatic release. If so designed they could then automatically deploy to release themselves to the surface if the lost aircraft were to descend below a certain depth of water. As merely a retired global and ETOPS flier, I am in no way qualified to know anything about such design matters, yet is it not time that the boffins put their thinking caps on to produce such an aid to their recovery?
The parameters for 'release to the surface' could be clearly defined so as not to activate such a device unless extreme water pressure were experienced by the sensing device. The trigger for release could then be by self-contained electrical, barostatic or even chemical means.
Realising that cost versus the number of times such inventions are needed form a large part of the design equation, it brings to mind the saying that, "Necessity is the mother of invention."
Nevertheless, regardless of the cost of design and fitting such a device to long-flight, over-water aircraft, at least the families and relatives of those lost would have greater hope of some form of final closure for their lost ones.
The parameters for 'release to the surface' could be clearly defined so as not to activate such a device unless extreme water pressure were experienced by the sensing device. The trigger for release could then be by self-contained electrical, barostatic or even chemical means.
Realising that cost versus the number of times such inventions are needed form a large part of the design equation, it brings to mind the saying that, "Necessity is the mother of invention."
Nevertheless, regardless of the cost of design and fitting such a device to long-flight, over-water aircraft, at least the families and relatives of those lost would have greater hope of some form of final closure for their lost ones.
Well, I think their naval assets might find the northern search area difficult to navigate
Still a bit surprised the Chinese appear to have got caught out regarding the "debris" they spotted early on.
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: EGSS
Posts: 943
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have often wondered why these, valuable to the search and subsequent enquiry, items are not given some form of barostatic release. If so designed they could then automatically deploy to release themselves to the surface if the lost aircraft were to descend below a certain depth of water.
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Dharan
Age: 66
Posts: 307
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indonesia
Mm, Funny how the Indonesians don't join in as it is almost certain that 370 flew straight over the top of Jakarta, without iff!!!
More face-saving perchance?
More face-saving perchance?
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: KSAN
Age: 62
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: For Future "Black Box" Designers......
50 Plus:
This technology already exists...search this thread or Google for Crash Position Indicator.
It's not required for airliners under current regulations, but is used in the military and offshore exploration industry.
Just needs money, will and regulations.
This technology already exists...search this thread or Google for Crash Position Indicator.
It's not required for airliners under current regulations, but is used in the military and offshore exploration industry.
Just needs money, will and regulations.