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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 20th Mar 2014, 14:13
  #6581 (permalink)  
 
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Re: For Future "Black Box" Designers......

50 Plus:

This technology already exists...search this thread or Google for Crash Position Indicator.

It's not required for airliners under current regulations, but is used in the military and offshore exploration industry.

Just needs money, will and regulations.
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 14:14
  #6582 (permalink)  
 
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Indonesia ARE involved sending assets to help search.

AMSA search finished for today

http://www.amsa.gov.au/media/documen...MH370FINAL.pdf
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 14:27
  #6583 (permalink)  
 
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Indonesia

Mm, Funny how the Indonesians don't join in as it is almost certain that 370 flew straight over the top of Jakarta, without iff!!!

More face-saving perchance?
No way in Hell. Jakarta would be nowhere near the flight path. Aceh is an incredibly sensitive area for Indonesia and there is no way that anything flew over or around Indonesian airspace in North Sumatera without being spotted. The Military is the ONLY Organisation in Indonesia which works efficiently. And this would be a Military operation. Trust me.

This aircraft was deliberately flown, by human intervention, around sensitive air space and controls using carefully selected waypoints by someone(s) who knew what they were doing. Why we don't know. And I suspect that is what was intended. IMHO.

Last edited by philipat; 20th Mar 2014 at 14:58.
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 14:27
  #6584 (permalink)  
 
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Just saw this conformation from Malaysia that there are already images from other satellites.

Possible wreckage spotted in search for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370, RAAF plane on its way to identify objects | News.com.au

DEBRIS CORROBARATED BY MORE THAN ONE SATELLITE: MALAYSIA
Malaysia’s Defence and acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein says the satellite images of what appears to be debris is corroborated by more than one satellite.
He said this is why the latest sightings off Perth are more credible than previous sightings of debris.
Mr Hussein said the information from Australia was “corroborated to a certain extent from other satellites”.
Presumably (hopefully) better resolution than the images taken on the 16th but released today. If they have another position from another satellite, it is more likely they the air search will be successful.
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 14:29
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Quote: Still a bit surprised the Chinese appear to have got caught out regarding the "debris" they spotted early on.

Believe that was released by a civilian agency -Amateur Chinese sleuthing?
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 14:41
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i suspect if it was confirmed as the wreckage, it would have been "released" by the Chinese state...


Amuses me how after it was a "red hering" the Chinese then say ahh yes it wasn't released by the state
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 14:45
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Originally Posted by 60plus
Quote:
I have often wondered why these, valuable to the search and subsequent enquiry, items are not given some form of barostatic release. If so designed they could then automatically deploy to release themselves to the surface if the lost aircraft were to descend below a certain depth of water.
Probably because if they were still in an intact piece of the aft fuselage they would be required to unscrew themselves from their mounts, open the cargo door and swim to the surface?

Originally Posted by Flightmech
Probably because if they were still in an intact piece of the aft fuselage they would be required to unscrew themselves from their mounts, open the cargo door and swim to the surface?
Agreed. And every bit of complexity you design in to a system increases the testing and certification effort and also increases the ongoing maintenance effort. All of this then increases the failure rate. This is true of both complex electronic solutions as well as complex mechanical solutions. Don't forget that after the box mechanically unmounts itself from the structure, it has to disconnect the harnesses that provide it power and data.

Is it technically possible? I'm sure it is. Something along the lines of an ADELT used on SAR aircraft, perhaps. But you impose all those penalties (weight, cost, opportunity for error and failure rate) on every aircraft built.

It leaves a bad taste in one's mouth to think it comes down to a willingness to spend money. But, it still has to be feasible to design, manufacture, sell and service. And that includes economic feasibility. And it is more than just money. You also increase the risks.
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 14:53
  #6588 (permalink)  
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Size comparison image

Here is the mystery 24m object and a 777-200, more or less to scale.

(First attempt got modded, maybe I was supposed to use the img link tags.)
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 14:56
  #6589 (permalink)  
 
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Philipat - This aircraft was deliberately flown, by human intervention, around sensitive waypoints by someone(s) who knew what they were doing. Why we don't know. And I suspect that is what was intended. IMHO.
Do we have any actual proof of this so far? We have some pings and a last known point no actual proven flight path has been published?
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 15:01
  #6590 (permalink)  
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Chutes..?

That image could almost be a section of fuz and wing-roots...with chutes/rafts deployed. It begs the question; What are the sea temps, wind-chill there..? Any maritime survival experts here like to offer chances for survivors..?
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 15:08
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WRT the "deployable ELT", the C-5A had something called CDPIR, can't recall the words to the acronym, but it was mounted on the top of the T-tail and was either released by pilot action or deployed at some loading and would float. It was a maintenance nightmare, often failing its BIT test and requiring an avionics man on a high lift. In the end, it was removed on the B-models and replaced by a conventional ELT.

It's possible, but cost is the issue
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 15:24
  #6592 (permalink)  
 
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I read earlier cvr was now 24hr not the old 30 mins, they are digital not tape so even if wiped or over written forensic analysis will reveal a lot (given time).

pls corect me if wrong in general and specifcally on this aircraft
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 15:27
  #6593 (permalink)  
 
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CVR 2 hours
FDR 25 hours
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 15:27
  #6594 (permalink)  
 
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Not entirely but the flight path around Thai/Indonesian airspace in and arounf North Sumatera is NOT a path that would have been flown randomly.
I think the question being posed is not why was that flight path used, but is there any evidence that flightpath was actually flown.
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 15:28
  #6595 (permalink)  
 
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It's possible, but cost is the issue
Fast track solution is to scatter $200 plbs throughout the cabin.
Assign plbs to passengers seated by the doors, make it a requirement to get the seat.
One on every slide, one by every door.
Half of the Flight crew and cabin crew to wear them.

New plbs could be designed with a delay and 60 second duration audible alarm to minimize effects of false and accidental alarms.

They need to be a little smaller in size.
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 15:31
  #6596 (permalink)  
 
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Motivation

Even if the boxes are found. The CVR reveals nothing, The DFDR reveals a more precise version of what we roughly already know?

This was very intelligently planned by someone(s) who did not want the facts ever to be revealed??
Presuming the CVR is of the two-hour, looping variety, only the last two hours of cockpit activity would be recorded. The only way the CVR would have anything useful would be if someone was still alive and talking for the record.

This presumes no one opened the CVR circuit breaker at any point. If someone did open the breaker after a deliberate diversion was complete, perhaps to ensure a record of what happened in the cockpit, useful information may still be available.

If someone did open the breaker after the diversion began, it's also possible they closed it at some point when it was obvious there were less than two hours remaining until flameout, then made some kind of a statement.

All of which presumes MAS370's diversion was deliberate, not an accident.
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 15:33
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CVR power supply

Does the CVR have internal batteries, so that device continues to operate even if the aircraft's supply to it is lost or degraded?
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 15:38
  #6598 (permalink)  
 
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@Wiggy

I think the question being posed is not why was that flight path used, but is there any evidence that flightpath was actually flown.
Yes, fair point. I was simply assuming that at least SOME of the Malaysian information was correct, although that might be a stretch.

But I still do not believe there is any way that the aircraft flew over Indonesian airspace without being spotted. Aceh is a very sensitive area for Jakarta. The "Reported" flight path around the Northern tip of Sumatera would make sense ONLY if someone was trying to evade both Thai AND Indonesian detection? Other than that, I stand corrected.
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 15:38
  #6599 (permalink)  
 
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CVR 2 hours
FDR 25 hours
Sorry if this gets deleted as innapropriate im not sorry for saying it, 2 hours for CVR is an utter disgrace. In this day and age for compression and audio storage could easily be hundreds of hours to SSD. I hope if anything from this terrible loss of souls there is an extensive review of how voice/ data is recorded and tracked if lost due to tragedy or otherwise.
AF447 proved a 30day ping is massively inadequate, pitch SAR time against the extra cost of carrying a 21 century black box..
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Old 20th Mar 2014, 15:50
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Southern Ocean "objects of interest".

We have seen low-resolution satellite images of objects in the sea, reported to be around 25m long.

Given the sensitivity of surveillance techniques, we do not know the origin of the data or if other images are available, in the visual spectrum or via radar.

What someone COULD perhaps release is whether these objects have been detected by more than one satellite or during more than one pass of a satellite over this area.

If they have been seen only by a single satellite in a single pass, then their potential significance is greatly diminished.

There is obviously a lot of junk floating around the world's oceans.
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