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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:22
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Inflight Firefighting

Would a crew ever consider decompression/high-altitude to fight a fire?
(over the ocean, last gasp, nothing else left to try ...)
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:24
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Originally Posted by barrel_owl
Example 2. Someone posted here a video where an alleged "friend" of the captain suggests "you can elaborate scenarios with a flight simulator". Question: did someone bother to verify the authenticity of this report? Who is this guy? How do I know he was actually a friend of the captain? He claims he tried to contact the captain's family, but.. oops.. was unable to talk with any member of it. How convenient.
Not to talk about the thousands of allegations the captain was "obsessed for politics" or had more or less terrorist tendencies just because he owned a simulator at home. Ludicrous, not to say outrageous.
That guy? He is apparently involved in politics, strongly. He is apparently the secretary of an opposition party politician...he wears the badge on his chest during interviews.

He never mentions that though...
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:26
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406 ELT

Very little chat here about the lack of any ELT signal from the 406 beacon. This indicates to me that at the end of the flight, there must have been an almost normal deceleration below the G level needed to activate the ELT. Worst case the newer 406 ELT would provide a location within 2km with only a .25 second transmission upon activation.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:29
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deja vu

As I read this I have one ear to the news coverage on the TV.

I guess it is inevitable that the professional talking heads read this thread but many items here are either picked up by the THs or the contributors here feed back what the THs have said on their goggle box.

A veritable self-licking lollipop.

The 'free' sharing of technical data, such as radar or military capabilities has been mentioned as being less than complete because of secrecy considerations.

While this may well be an elaborate misappropriation of the aircraft it does not follow that it ended successfully. As Bill MacGillvary pointed out back on #2917
but it would appear possible that it did not impact (if it did) in the sea, but may have continued on a track that put it over some fairly inhospitable land terrain (Jungle/mountain).
That possibility could be true if the northern track is correct. I would suggest that a crash on land would concentrate the debris and be far less noticeable than debris in the open ocean.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:32
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The alleged radio contact with MAS370 made by the anonymous captain of a Japan-bound airliner makes me smell rats. Why should a real pilot with a verifiable record refuse to give his own name and his flight number in such a situation? What's the problem with it? Wouldn't this help the investigation? His alleged statement is also highly suspicious. He heard nothing, all he says is that "there were a lot of interference… static… but I heard mumbling". In short, he is unable to refer the content of the transmission, he is unable to say whether he spoke with the captain or the F/O, the alleged time of the radio transmission is after the time the datalink had been turned off and the transponder had been turned off. Sorry, but to me this smells like a typical piece of disinformation. Someone planted this interview just to "prove" that the captain and the F/O were still at the controls of the aircraft at that time. I will believe this captain as soon as he will come out with a real name and the exact position of his aircraft, which should not be so difficult to verify with a map and radar data.
I really wouldn't read too much into that one. I was on frequency at the time, I heard the other MH aircraft transmitting on 121.5 trying to contact the MH370 (along with many transmissions from HCM control) and never heard anything resembling a reply, mumbled garbled or otherwise.

There's a fairly common interference phenomena around SGN that seems to cause short 5-10 second bursts of buzzing static on VHF. He might have heard that, there was plenty of that going on that night but nothing out of the ordinary.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:37
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Malaysian plane saga highlights air defense gaps

"Several nations will be embarrassed by how easy it is to trespass their airspace," said Air Vice Marshal Michael Harwood, a retired British Royal Air Force pilot and ex-defense attache to Washington DC. "Too many movies and Predator (unmanned military drone) feeds from Afghanistan have suckered people into thinking we know everything and see everything. You get what you pay for. And the world, by and large, does not pay."


Separately, a defense source said that India did not keep its radar facilities operational at all times because of cost. Asked what the reason was, the source said: "Too expensive."

Australian civilian radar extends only some 200 km (125 miles) from its coast, an Australian official said on condition of anonymity, although its air defense radar extends much further. Australia's military could not be reached for comment on Saturday and if it did detect a transponder-less aircraft heading south, there is no suggestion any alarm was raised.


Malaysian plane saga highlights air defense gaps | Reuters


... These guys have been caught with their pants down and some very embarrassing holes in their national defense preparedness have been exposed by this errant aircraft. You could not make this stuff up if you wanted to.

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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:39
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Originally Posted by Luke SkyToddler
I really wouldn't read too much into that one. I was on frequency at the time, I heard the other MH aircraft transmitting on 121.5 trying to contact the MH370 (along with many transmissions from HCM control) and never heard anything resembling a reply, mumbled garbled or otherwise.

There's a fairly common interference phenomena around SGN that seems to cause short 5-10 second bursts of buzzing static on VHF. He might have heard that, there was plenty of that going on that night but nothing out of the ordinary.
I am not questioning the intererence itself, I know it is highly possible in that area given the alleged distance between both aircraft. I am questioning THAT report itself. I can't understand why a pilot should refuse to give his own name. Don't you find it strange? I do.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:47
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Most people seems to be assuming that the a/c ran out of fuel then speared into the ocean.
What if all the turns it made were to lose time and reduce the weight of the a/c to a minimum before attempting a ditching over the deepest part of the indian ocean, where a boat was waiting for them. All the pax and crew would already be dead or hypoxic, leaving only the high jackers to evacuate.
If it were terrorists, they could then carry out the same again at a later date, having now gained even more knowledge from the SAR attempt and this forum.
If the ditching was done with the outflow valves open I'm sure it would soon fill with water and sink leaving no trace.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:47
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Sheep Guts. The public have not been given much information at all. We were shown a map with two red arcs along a circle marked 40 degrees centred on the point below IOR. The eastern part of the circle between the arcs was not red and is not included in official discussions of searches. Also Western half missing.

We are trying to reconstruct an explanation for that map.

If you want to believe the 40 degrees circle but do not want to believe the gap then that is fine.

If you want a reasonable explanation which explains the circle and gap then the relative positions of the two satellites explains it perfectly.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:52
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Originally Posted by bono
... These guys have been caught with their pants down and some very embarrassing holes in their national defense preparedness have been exposed by this errant aircraft. You could not make this stuff up if you wanted to.
Bono, don't read too much in to this. If there is no assessed threat then there is no reason to maintain a high air defence alert state. In the UK for instance, with the end of the Cold War, much of the air defence system was dismantled and the number of aircraft on alert was reduced.

Even at the height of the Cold War the US did not keep all its SAM sites on 24 hour alert.

While countries in that region may not all be buddy buddy they do not necessarily feel the need for 24 hour coverage. Where you may well be correct it that they don't want their actual readiness states, or periods of operation, to be published.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:52
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It is unfortunate that some people here keep posting nonsense about the aircraft reaching FL450 when it has been repeatedly been explained that the T7 at that weight cannot reach FL450! Not to mention that primary radar at that range has a very large margin of error

Some take exception to the scrutiny of the flight crew. Whilst they may turn out to be heroic victims of all this, there are still too many questions about the apparent highly skilled manipulation of systems immediately prior to disappearance. In addition the history of Islamic terrorism and the methods of Al Qaida to dress its operatives as harmless secular citizens has already been well documented, as per 9/11 for example. Therefore this scrutiny of the crew is legitimate and called for, despite the unfortunate possibility that they may be innocent. Time will tell and if necessary they will be exonerated and lionized.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:54
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NY Times reports that Malaysian authorities now report that pilot spoke to ATC after the ACARS was turned off, and gave no indication of trouble.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/17/wo...flight.html?hp

Also,

Within the land area with 60 minutes of fuel remaining on the northern (final ping) arc is this:
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/china/...y/testarea.pdf

Not sure this area can be reached with 20 minutes of fuel remaining. (Using the NY Times graphic showing distances from the centerline of the arc.)

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/16/wo...ht-370.html?hp
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:56
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I have a gut feeling (coupled with false flag information) this a/c has landed. It is known the Malaysian government are 'not as open' as to per maybe western countries as to security issues.

I suggest, nor am a pilot, but logic thinking (as we all understand how government secrecy works) the Malaysian government, behind the smoke screen are negotiating with a ransom request.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 15:58
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>If you want to believe the 40 degrees circle but do not want to believe the gap then that is fine.

By inspection of the map the 40 degree line goes pretty close to the last acars message - if you assume ditching and the plane floats for a couple of hours then you end up back at the starting point for the search.

I think we all want to see the accuracy of the 40 degree reading and the previous pings - if they are all around the 40 degree mark +/- accuracy then I'd say they are barking up the wrong tree.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 16:00
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Originally Posted by dazdaz1
I have a gut feeling (coupled with false flag information) this a/c has landed. It is known the Malaysian government are 'not as open' as to per maybe western countries as to security issues.

I suggest, nor am a pilot, but logic thinking (as we all understand how government secrecy works) the Malaysian government, behind the smoke screen are negotiating with a ransom request.
Must be true. Keep quiet, let 25 countries expend hundreds of man hours, thousands of dollars, all to preserve your privacy.

Then, when all the passengers are released, hope there is no adverse publicity.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 16:01
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Re transponder turn off

There has to be some form of overheat protection.
Yes.
But.
Turning off the transponder in flight without notifying ATC is.... a no-no.

Technology exists that can solve this dilemma, see e g here.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 16:01
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I have a gut feeling (coupled with false flag information) this a/c has landed. It is known the Malaysian government are 'not as open' as to per maybe western countries as to security issues.

I suggest, nor am a pilot, but logic thinking (as we all understand how government secrecy works) the Malaysian government, behind the smoke screen are negotiating with a ransom request.
I think that has something to with Najib Razak and the rising revolution with Anwar Ibrahim. There is something going on
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 16:04
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Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator
Must be true. Keep quiet, let 25 countries expend hundreds of man hours, thousands of dollars, all to preserve your privacy.

Then, when all the passengers are released, hope there is no adverse publicity.
That being the point. The adverse publicity is the way to force the PM to resign...the motive
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 16:07
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The media keep reporting that the two pilots did not ask to fly together. That of course predicates that it was 'essential' that it was this flight that was chosen.

It might equally have been that the two pilots waited until chance put them on the same flight.

This is not to say that the pilots were the culprits but that not asking to fly together is a red herring.
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Old 16th Mar 2014, 16:11
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Inflight Firefighting
Would a crew ever consider decompression/high-altitude to fight a fire?
(over the ocean, last gasp, nothing else left to try ...)
On a freighter, they would.
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