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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:15
  #5821 (permalink)  
 
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It is being reported that the US has requested Malaysia to "be transparent" and share the known information to eliminate confusion and speculation

...we might be on the verge of a huge and/or unbelievably interesting data-dump which will hopefully answer a lot of the questions and/or ideally stop a few of the many 'what-if...' theories
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:16
  #5822 (permalink)  
 
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what is that?
Air Bagan Fokker 100 »»»

planes.cz - F100 - XY-AGC - Air Bagan ( W9 ) - Chiang Mai ( CNX / VTCC )
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:18
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2 thoughts
1) Inmarsat. Has anyone thought to ask them if they went back to the prior flight of this aircraft and verified the pings match it's known location? One you might be able to calibrate out any error from the comparison. And two, if the satcom RT had been swapped out with another aircraft, we are chasing our tails yet again.

2) I've seen somewhere that there was 600+ runways that the aircraft could land on within its range. I assume they mean "safely land on". What if you don't care about the airframe, but you would like to try not to kill anyone if possible. I came across an island on tomnod that appeared to be deserted, but you could see remnants of what appeared to be WW2 defenses along its southwestern side. Maybe an abandoned WW2 strip on a deserted island. If the pilot did this for political motivations, maybe he's siting till they run out of mangosteens before he manually sets off the ELT.

I'm just trying to hold out hope.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:18
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Originally Posted by paddylaz
someone found it on tomnod.....not familiar with the website so not sure what the deal is....mirror is reporting it
It's not photoshop. There is an airport a few miles north-east of this plane. It's not on the ground, it's on its way to land at Port Blair, South Andaman.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:20
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Hypoxia

Originally Posted by Above The Clouds
As for your statement regarding hypoxia, read about the subject first it might give you an understanding why they couldn't turn on a phone let alone use it
Couldn't agree more.

Hypoxia as a possible cause has been bandied about often enough and deserves some light being thrown on it.
It’s basically an incomplete interruption of O2 to the brain which uses 20% of body O2 intake. Consciousness is usually lost in about 15 seconds and irreversible brain damage starts after 4 minutes or so.
(Anoxia is complete interruption of brain supply of O2 eg hanging/strangulation)
The possible causes of hypoxia in an a/c in flight could possibly be high altitudes (unpressurised), smoke inhalation and CO inhalation.
The response of the body to hypoxia is to speed up the blood flow to the brain (max of 2x normal).
If this compensation is insufficient, symptoms start to appear - problems with concentration, attention, co-ordination and short-term memory, which may be relatively subtle to begin with. There may be headache, light-headedness, dizziness, an increase in breathing rate and sweating. There can be a restriction in the field of vision, a sensation of numbness or tingling and feelings of euphoria.
As the degree of anoxia becomes more pronounced, confusion, agitation or drowsiness appear, along with cyanosis. There may be brief jerks of the limbs (myoclonus) and seizures, both resulting from the damaging effects of lack of oxygen on the brain. If the anoxia is severe, it will result in loss of consciousness and coma.
In a rapidly developing situation (from fire for example), the window of about 15 seconds leaves very little time for pilots to take proper action. O2 masks would require presence of mind and only if something else has not arrested the pilot’s attention or even prevented that action.
Rapid fire progression in the cockpit with a locked doors and fire-knocked out or pilot-actioned comms, leaves the cabin pax and crew isolated, wondering and not taking action until they too late as they become incapacitated.
Hope this sheds some light. However this scenario is only possibly true IF fire is the cause. And one would expect the a/c to crash and be found not too far away. Tanks loaded with fuel on the first leg of the flight would also not help the a/c get too far.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:28
  #5826 (permalink)  
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off topic: interesting to see how much (or better: little) attention two incidents with US mainlines are getting in face of the unsolved mystery around this flight. Just imagine how the threads about a major airline loosing some parts of the wing inflight or another one relanding right after getting airborne and trying to stop on the remaining runway would look like in quieter times...
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:33
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https://www.metabunk.org/threads/mh3...pbox-map.3304/

Below is now debunked, leaving it in place only for future people reading the thread


Plane satellite image uncovered - asia - world | Stuff.co.nz

... the image was captured just above a forest and very close to the Shibpur air strip of Andaman Islands.

''The air strip is exclusively used by the defence forces with no permission for civilian aircraft in this area.''

Last edited by sleemanj; 19th Mar 2014 at 01:47.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:36
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I don't believe the aircraft would have flown any great distance on autopilot with structural damage or a fire on board even with crew incapacitated .

The slow decompression scenario does not make sense either , nobody would ignore the EICAS warning , even if the pilots passed out before that point ( very unlikely) the cabin crew would have noticed masks dropping and after several mins notified cockpit if they did not recognise a descent and in desperation would have carried a portable bottle to the cockpit and energy opened the door.

It really only leaves the options
Deliberate Pilot hi jack
Unknown hi Jackers/s
Or the aircraft was shot down or destroyed in a short space of time...
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:42
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''The air strip is exclusively used by the defence forces with no permission for civilian aircraft in this area.''
Seems to me to be a number of good reasons there why the aircraft in that sat photo would not be MH370 !
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:46
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the first sat pic looks like a tail mounted engine aircraft MD 80 F100 etc, the second is a 737....
outrageous that people try this sort of stuff!!
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:47
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'Ping Rings'

The primary task is to find the aircraft. If you just concentrate on one thing for now - pls can we have those other Inmarsat 'rings'? Access to them would eliminate many wild ideas.

And if we believe Inmarsat's rings, please remember that they tell us that there was power on that aircraft until 0811 + 59 MINS. So no missile strikes near Kota Baru, no crashes in the Belum Forest, etc.

At the next conference, will some journalist please nag Hashim to give details of the other five rings? Don't worry about why we need the details, you'll get plenty of copy here afterwards.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:52
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I didn't realise their sensors were that good but..

Flight MH370: No explosion or crash detected, UN N-watchdog says - The Times of India

A UN-backed nuclear watchdog has said that it did not detect either any explosion or crash that could be linked to the missing Malaysia Airlines plane, amid continued speculation over fate of the aircraft.

"Regarding the missing Malaysian Airlines flight... the Vienna-based Comprehensive Nuclear-Test-Ban Treaty Organization (CTBTO) confirmed that neither an explosion nor a plane crash on land or on water had been detected so far," Spokesman for UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon Stephane Dujarric told reporters here on Monday.

Dujarric said plane accidents may be detected, depending on individual circumstances, by three of the four technologies used by the CTBTO's International Monitoring System (IMS).

While the verification system has been put in place to detect nuclear explosions, it is also able to detect the explosion of a larger aircraft, as well as its impact on the ground or on water.

CTBTO executive secretary Lassina Zerbo had last week said that he would put the sensors of the organization at work to see if a possible explosion at high altitude of the missing Malaysian Airlines plane could be detected.

Continues..
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:55
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1) Inmarsat. Has anyone thought to ask them if they went back to the prior flight of this aircraft and verified the pings match it's known location? One you might be able to calibrate out any error from the comparison. And two, if the satcom RT had been swapped out with another aircraft, we are chasing our tails yet again.
Unless criminal or terrorist activity is ruled out completely could the pings be spoofed?
Part of a very sophisticated plan to mislead?


Remember the press coverage of the threat of a smartphone hacking the flight deck originated back in April last year and again in October 2013 in an article written by a tech consultant who explores how ACARS could in theory be used to "attack" on-board aircraft systems.

Aviation Security - FMS exploitation over ACARS - n.runs security team

The main idea for the FMS exploitation is to send some malformed data to the FMS, via ACARS, that triggers a vulnerability on the parsing code allowing us to execute arbitrary code. If the vulnerability used is the appropriate, it will be triggered before the pilot has to perform any action and the full attack can be therefore remote and straight forward.


Our motivation is to help the affected industry to improve the security of their products. We strongly believe in responsible disclosure and we and act accordingly.

n.runs professionals was founded in 2001 as a competent provider of manufacturer-independent IT.Security, IT.Infrastructure, IT.Business Consulting services.
A few days ago they made this statement;
We would like to clarify that it is highly unlikely that, whatever happened to this flight, had anything to do with any form of cyber-attack against its systems.

"Highly unlikely" doesn't quite close the door on it being totally implausible, but my point is not that this flight was hacked and controlled by remote control but to pose a question, could the pings like other tech that is non military and electronic, be spoofed?

Probably too convoluted to be manage by a one man band?

EASA, FAA and Rockwall Collins state that Hugo's bench tests are not analogous to testing using certified equipment.
Researcher Says He's Found Hackable Flaws In Airplanes' Navigation Systems (Update: The FAA Disagrees) - Forbes


Then there is the concept of GPS spoofing. If a marine nav system can be spoofed with a briefcase sized transmitter, so too could an aviation system??

sing a laptop, a small antenna and an electronic GPS “spoofer” built for $3,000, GPS expert Todd Humphreys and his team at the University of Texas took control of the sophisticated navigation system aboard an $80 million, 210-foot super-yacht in the Mediterranean Sea.
“We injected our spoofing signals into its GPS antennas and we’re basically able to control its navigation system with our spoofing signals,” Humphreys told Fox News.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:56
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Plane satellite image uncovered

... the image was captured just above a forest and very close to the Shibpur air strip of Andaman Islands.

And the very clear brightly lit by sunlight image it is (also notice the white clouds) ML370 went AWOL at night
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:58
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Somebody at the UN is dreaming...that they think they can detect an airplane crashing into the Indian Ocean is laughable. Land, maybe, ocean not a chance in hell.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:58
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Plane satellite image uncovered - asia - world | Stuff.co.nz

If that is a 737-type image somewhere near Shibpur, then it could easily be one of the Indian Navy's new P-8I Neptunes.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 23:01
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how many radio masts do you assume to be present over the indian ocean to logon with the cellphone? Even over land it will not work in 35000 feet.
Cellphones with a satellite link? They call home from the top of Mount Everest, don't they?
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 23:05
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Ex mil pilots can ignore this.

I really HAVE to say something about hypoxia.
If you are involved in a decompression at altitude you will NOT feel dizzy, ill or euphoric. You will become unconscious without realising anything is wrong with you.
You absolutely MUST get the oxygen mask on immediately it drops and you MUST fit yours before assisting the kids.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 23:05
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And the very clear brightly lit by sunlight image it is (also notice the white clouds) ML370 went AWOL at night
Actually the last signals were after sunrise in the Andamans.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 23:07
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Unless criminal or terrorist activity is ruled out completely could the pings be spoofed?
Part of a very sophisticated plan to mislead?
It would seem to be difficult, since you'd need to time the reply correctly if you wanted to tell a story in this very esoteric way. If you're using a similar set of machinery it would have to be closer to the satellite than the signal you're trying to spoof.
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