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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:19
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missing ping data

The missing data/arcs deduced from earlier pings tells us either:

They don't have the data

or

They do have the data but don't wish to publicly release it [at this stage]


I suspect its the latter (since INMARSATs business is, afterall, data), but I'm afraid that opens up a whole host of new questions, some of which are quite political/troubling...
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:24
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Its shame my original post on the 10th has vanished. To recap


I commented that the initial rate of turn and subsequent direction would hold some clues.
The rate of turn has still not been reported, lets guess it was 1 or 0.5 ?


I commented on Primary radar which I was told was not available . .
Just to nudge that radar debate along: Even Air Defence Primary radar is sometimes quite inaccurate on altitude, although it does estimate altitude .. so someone needs to fly the route in a 777-200 and see what range of altitudes a level flight returns on each of the same radar screens and where. Then they need to fly the Satellite 40 degree route using the same equipment for similar reasons


I've still not heard of all mobile operators in the region being asked to search for registration attempts by any phone on the flight . .


In fact Sherlock Holmes would be pretty much in despair by now . . .
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:25
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FJDG its not so secretive as many wonder or wish to be. FYI its used as an official civil ETOPS alt in the Indian Ocean, and some Civil airliners//airlines also are flying there from time to time. Portuguese (my country and aviation colleagues) Air Luxor, (nowadays HiFly) used to went there on very regular basis operating for UK and Oz DoD's with their A330s. Some videos and pics right here on my laptop btw.
Base has more than 3500 staff, between mil and civil, US&UK...so, they are all maintaining a T7 under their noses without saying a single word, sitting shiny on the paradisiac sunny ramp, and feeding/homing almost 300 souls including children in total secrecy?...dont think so
Another interesting theory to debate...how many pages this very thread are goin to reach?...i bet 373
PS: Indian Ocean its indeed immense and vast...as well as the West Xinjiang Province.

Last edited by JanetFlight; 18th Mar 2014 at 22:04.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:29
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oldoberon,

I meant that if there is any spectral information recorded, you could get a Doppler shift from the received frequency at the satellite.

Unless the aircraft is flying on a track perpendicular to the satellite, like the red arc, it has an approach or recession velocity, and so could give a link between direction and speed, depending on whether the signal from the aircraft was sufficiently narrow and consistent in frequency to measure the shift hour by hour, and the satellite measures frequency sufficiently precisely.

I suspect it doesn't.

I agree with you that the Inmarsat-3 over the Indian Ocean has a single beam that offers coverage out to 82 degrees away from the point beneath the satellite measured around the Earth.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:30
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From the quality and content of a large proportion of the posts here, I would guess they are coming from the media, which could be indicated by the number of first time posters.

Some of the theories are quite alarming to say the least, and if people stopped repeating the same questions and info the whole thread would most likely be 50% smaller with more factual information.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:31
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The missing data/arcs deduced from earlier pings tells us either:

They don't have the data

or

They do have the data but don't wish to publicly release it [at this stage]
It's unlikely Inmarsat kept anything but the last ping, but perhaps a US spy satellite logged all of them?
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:32
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The missing data/arcs deduced from earlier pings tells us either:
They don't have the data
or
They do have the data but don't wish to publicly release it [at this stage]
Knowing the round trip times for all pings, and assuming MH370 maintained a constant ground speed, plotting the course hour by hour would be a trivial matter.

It's understandable that INMARSAT doesn't publicly release all the data, but I suppose it's been made available to selected parties in order to guide the search efforts.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:34
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Above The Clouds.

Stay cool, it's a gossip forum not a debating society.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:35
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Ornis

DS, doesn't make a lot of sense to set up a "link" unless you use it. I repeat:

Does Acars send data routinely for Boeing's and Rolls Royce's use, even if the airline is not paying for a maintenance programme?
Yes it does. Seems easier to just set up a predetermined automatic periodic "I'm active - do you have any reports for me?/"can I send you a report?" type connection on absolutely everything coming off the line than to try to establish/disconnect such a connection each time an airline might subscribe/unsubscribe from whatever contract(s) - which also includes each time a plane is taken out of an airlines service, so it is not only an airline subscribes/unsubscribes situation.

We also have a couple mentions that almost every airline subscribes to such/similar reports, so not getting it/something is seemingly the exception, not the rule, making the predetermined connection even more likely, imo

Besides, obviously there was such a connection here (well, based off the information we have been told) so why are we questioning it? But even if you really just insisted on knowing why, would you not be better off taking that up with INMARSAT/MAH/Boeing? I mean, how am I supposed to be able to perfectly explain all the thoughts behind what they have supposedly done?

And I am not sure either way if Boeing/RR definitely receives a copy of all ACARS reports (I would think there are some they do, some they just don't have need to know and therefore don't. Boeing & RR bother say they don't have "data" from this one, so obviously some reports they don't, right?) But regardless, either way I am pretty sure it has no barring on the confirmed attempted connection between INMARSAT & the Plane that we supposedly know about because it was an attempt to connect for a non-subscribed Boeing AHM report.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:39
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PositiveCynic
Now surely instinct these days is to grab for your mobile first - maybe even video the event! So it just appears odd that there is not a single piece of mobile transmission evidence appearing. A "ghost" plane with the pilots knocked out behind a security door run on autopilot would surely have every device owned by anyone still conscious at back on speed dial. Even in a hypoxia situation, then surely at least one phone would have been switched on by someone in distress and stayed on for the remaining time of flight.
The fact that they may have been over the sea and from what I understand there aren't to many floating cell phone masts in the middle of the ocean might explain the lack of social media events at the time.

As for your statement regarding hypoxia, read about the subject first it might give you an understanding why they couldn't turn on a phone let alone use it.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:39
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Even in a hypoxia situation, then surely at least one phone would have been switched on by someone in distress and stayed on for the remaining time of flight.
how many radio masts do you assume to be present over the indian ocean to logon with the cellphone ? even over land it will not work in 35000 feet.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:44
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Re-post: SATCOM for voice?

I keep seeing questions related to why the SATCOM system was sent pings, etc, and discussion related to ACARS use, MAS subscription to the ACARS reporting service to Boeing (or not), but isn't it also the case that the SATCOM transceivers at ALSO available for voice comms?
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:45
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200+ passengers sitting in the back with mobile devices.

Now surely instinct these days is to grab for your mobile first - maybe even video the event! So it just appears odd that there is not a single piece of mobile transmission evidence appearing. A "ghost" plane with the pilots knocked out behind a security door run on autopilot would surely have every device owned by anyone still conscious at back on speed dial. Even in a hypoxia situation, then surely at least one phone would have been switched on by someone in distress and stayed on for the remaining time of flight.
Our former tv weather and science guy wrote a good explanation of why cells don't work from the air. It's here:
Why Cell Phones Don?t Work (Well) From The Air ? My Permanent Record
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:50
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Romeo E.T. said:-

[QUOTE]I cannot help but still think its a catastrophic loss of electrical power, similar to to uncapping the battery switch and turning it off.......poof...instant darkness, no back up stby power....just total silence.

The engines will continue to work, being totally capable of suction feed only, as long as no large thrust changes are made./QUOTE]

Lots been said about total electrical failure.

The Rollers on my plane are certified to my 51,000 ceiling BUT RR only guarantees them to suction feed to 20,000.

So what ceiling will the Rollers suction to on the T7? If closer to my 20K then MH370 could never have flown for the 7 plus hours. Thus total electrical failure seems unlikely.
Answers from T7 drivers please.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:51
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@Mahatma Kote

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/5...ml#post8374421
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 21:57
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MH used to have a very peculiar routing KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE, involving 2 trans oceanic legs.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:02
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ATC Tapes 2

Just a thought but should there not be a tape of all comms from ATC to the aircraft including Ground, clearance delivery, tower, departure or centre?
Should these tapes not provide an opportunity for voice recognition software to confirm who was talking when and what was said.
I am sure everybody would like to see a complete transcript of the last contact both from ATC and the aircraft.

Sorry if I was unclear in my original post. What I meant to ask was why have the authorities not referred to them. It would clear up, at least, the actual terminology used in the last contact.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:11
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:12
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It's unlikely Inmarsat kept anything but the last ping, but perhaps a US spy satellite logged all of them?
Hopefully... but it wouldn't have the time of flight measured for a call and reply signal, so the location might not be up to much.

Maybe the hourly broadcast from the aircraft (in response to the satellite's call?) is precise enough in time to be measurable to 20ms each hour (or Inmarsat's broadcasts were snaffled up too). If both signals are heard by a Three Letter Agency, then the various times of flight should allow that all to be put together.
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Old 18th Mar 2014, 22:15
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someone found it on tomnod.....not familiar with the website so not sure what the deal is....mirror is reporting it
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