Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:08
  #3261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Posts: 735
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
CNN reporting from indian navy quote

We have been given specific co ordinates to search at. More planes and ships being rushed there.
Wannabe Flyer is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:14
  #3262 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
It is emerging that the pings/data were detected/received by London-based satellite operator Inmarsat. Were Inmarast known to provide specific services to MAS/boeing/RR in relation to this particular flight?
See the press release perhaps for the answer to your question ?

14 March 2014: Inmarsat has issued the following statement regarding Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

Routine, automated signals were registered on the Inmarsat network from Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 during its flight from Kuala Lumpur.

This information was provided to our partner SITA, which in turn has shared it with Malaysia Airlines.
mixture is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:15
  #3263 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 1998
Location: wherever
Age: 55
Posts: 1,616
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ZOOKER

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 1,253
Perhaps if we are going to investigate the Captain's 'Flight Sim' activities, we should investigate all aircrew who take photographs of aircraft, or give up their own time to fly/commentate at air shows, or do other aviation related things.
While we're at it it, why not investigate all the ATCOs who volunteer to work at RIAT every year? Doing aviation related stuff in your own time?ůMust be suspicious.
For many professional aviation licence holders, (myself included), aviation is a passion, not just a job. For others, (quite understandably), it is something which is left behind at the airport/ATC Centre, (or wherever), when heading home.
ZOOKER is online now Report Post
No body is suggesting investigating all aircrew. Just those involved in missing aircraft!

Like any investigation you have to look at every possibility and use a process of elimination.

A lot of very sensitive souls on here when anyone raises the subject of foul play by the crew but I can think of two incidences in the last year or so that are Pertinent. In fact the last large aircraft hijack was carried out by the co-pilot of the flight.
FE Hoppy is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:16
  #3264 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by kenjaDROP
@papershuffler



It would be better if it did, but, in a way, it doesn't have to include identity, if you think about it. If, after all the data analysis, the sat monitoring of the pings produced the track of an aircraft (carrying the capability to ping this system), non-identifiable*, in this region, then you could take a fair guess it could be MH370.

*non-identifiable via passive radar/ATC, that is.
It would *have* to include some kind of identifiable information. To distinguish transceiver a from transceiver b, some time of unique hardware address would have to be included in every frame sent between the satellite and the earth station.

The real question is, was it logged (most likely if they have logs of the pings, they have the logs of the hardware address) and do Malaysia Airlines, Boeing, Inmarsat (or whoever the satellite company is), and the manufacturer of the electronics have records that can match the unique hardware address to the missing plane. At the level it seems they're tracing this, it almost definitely wouldn't have the plane's tail number or serial number, it would be something similar to a MAC address in a computer or tablet.
mixduptransistor is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:20
  #3265 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Cork, Ireland
Age: 55
Posts: 54
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mrbigbird
Reported by Singapore Today on Twitter
"This is latest and most accurate flight path and the reason why the search is now where it is"
https://twitter.com/sgify


Looking at this track I think is beggars belief that the Malaysian military radar was unable to see this aircraft. If not in real time on the night then surely on review of the tapes.
...

We have been told specifically, almost from day one, in briefings that there are some things the Malaysians can tell us. And some things they can't.

...
Personally, looking at that image, I would be asking questions of the Thai radar operators.
glenbrook is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:25
  #3266 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 3,663
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Surely someone has raised the issue of the Cargo manifest?
Sure, about 1000000000000000000000000000000000000 times on this thread (give or take a few 100).

The lack of comment on the cargo is strange IMO.
Or maybe MH looked at the manifest and couldn't find anything of note on there ?
mixture is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:26
  #3267 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 225
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
ACARS 'Ping"

Not a PING (TCP/ICMP); more a handshake with the ability to include free text. That 'Free Text" -really formatted data, in this case about Donkey Health wasn't transmitted due to the lack of subscription. It's Possible the ACARS handler also included some other info, but more likely not. It's not impossible any other data was transmitted indadvertantly or, (conspiracy theorists, collected by a non aviation actor) it's software; bugs et al happen; this is systems management & monitoring data so not likely subject to the rigors of safety of flight code..


128 16 16 8 8 56 8 16 8 8 32 48 8 128 8
pre-key bit sync char sync SOH mode address ack/nak label block ID STX Seq No. Flight No. Text ETX CRC BCS


pre-key A maximum of 128 bits is transmitted to allow for the transmitter to key. If the transmitter keys up and settles on frequency quickly, it is possible to see most of the 128 bits, if the transmitter is slow then much less than 128 bits is seen. The received signals therefore does not always contain all 128 bits during this pre-key sequence. The sequence is also designed to compensate for variable response times of receiver squelches and AGC settling times. At 2400bps, 128 bits equates to about a 20th of a second (53.333mS to be precise).
bit sync 16 bits of alternate bits to allow the decoder to lock into the bit speed.
char sync 2 bytes with a unique bit pattern allows the decoder to precisely character syncronise to the following 8 bit bytes.
SOH Start of header marker byte.
mode Type of transmission. (AGCS-1, AGCS-D etc).
address Aircraft Registration number. Filled with a special sequence if a squitter burst.
ack/nak Acknowledged/Not acknowledged. Advises other station if a re-send is necessary.
label Label identifies type of message being sent. Usually a letter and a number. See labels table.
block ID Single byte which increments on each successful transmission.
STX If STX present, then text message follows.
Seq. No. Message sequence number. Usually made from the current time (minutes/seconds). Only transmitted in downlink data blocks.
Flight No. Aircraft carriers international flight number. Only transmitted in downlink data blocks.
Text The text message itself. Just as with AX25 packet, the actual length is variable but limited to a maximum of 220 characters.
ETX End of text marker. If ETB is transmitted instead then more text follows in a subsequent data packet.
CRC Checksum.
BCS End of packet block marker byte.

Its much more likely position & speed calculated by doppler/multi station trig than anything else.

Last edited by neilki; 14th Mar 2014 at 15:30. Reason: highlit AC Reg
neilki is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:28
  #3268 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Does the ping include identity information though?
It would be pretty pointless if it didn't.

Think of it as a post man or woman who knocks on your door and asks you to pay for a parcel Cash on Delivery, but won't tell you who has sent it.
Speed of Sound is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:32
  #3269 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Vermont
Age: 70
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
(Response to 1stSpotter, #3249, http://www.pprune.org/8374926-post3249.html)
This seems a very clever job. Disappear at handover, change route a couple of times. Disable all communications.

The Malaysians and the US for sure know more than willing to tell the public. Too many smokescreens and confirm/unconfirms of leads. I am pretty sure those satellite images released by error by a Chinese state agency was another smoke screen to win time.
Exactly.

More logical surmise:
1. The US has known about the Malaysian mil radar track almost from the beginning. Not credible that they missed its significance; therefore all news since has been smoke.

2. As the plane was navigated after going silent the navigators had some other purpose than to crash it.

3. The Mal. radar track ends where their coverage drops off with the aircraft at FL29.5. The countries whose radar would have picked it up from there must be a short list. So obviously these parties have been queried. The likelihood is the US and Malaysia (at a minimum) know more about where the plane went.

Obvious questions now:
a. Where might it have landed without detection?
b. What would the min. infrastructure requirements be to allow it to be used further, and does that narrow the list from a.?
c. Could its identity be changed (different transponder data, different livery)?
d. Could a disguised 777 be used as a weapon, or weapon delivery system, in a target country such as the US, Europe, China, etc.?

I would welcome comments including leave off with such posts on this site.

Last edited by cb299p; 14th Mar 2014 at 16:06.
cb299p is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:37
  #3270 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Naples, FL
Posts: 373
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why fly from IGARI to VAMPI and not direct to GIVAL? Got so close to Thai airspace at GIVAL and no detection from TAF?
ShenziRubani is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:37
  #3271 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Helicopter view
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Flight Aware

When one checks the end coordinates of the list:

On the 5th and the 7th the end coordinates are identical... they landed right? 40░08 116░58 (Which is on the left side of the terminal 2 @ beijing/ road side G111)

(flightaware does not show a flight on the 6th, while flightradar24 has a flight on that date, seems there is a one day difference in the database)

On the 8th where it shows a plain goes missing: don't ask my why they display the 8th...

But the end coordinates of the 8th are bang-on a hotel if i'm doing it right, in Beijing...
39░90 116░48
With the address of
4 Dong Zhong Hu Tong, Xi Cheng Qu, Beijing, Volksrepubliek China
master_disaster is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:37
  #3272 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
Posts: 2,001
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
FE Hoppy,
Let's just find the aeroplane and see what state it's in first.
ZOOKER is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:42
  #3273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kent
Age: 65
Posts: 216
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Someone earlier on mentioned MH030, KL to IST. Out of curiosity, I tracked the MH030 flight of last Saturday on FR24, and now have a query.

At the time MH370 disappeared from FR24, MH030 was about 150km south of Penang,tracking NW. At around 18:01Z, when about 100km NE of Bandeh Aceh, it disappears from FR24. Letting the playback run, I saw that all flights disappear from FR24 at that point, unless they're a bit further north towards Phuket. I presume that FR24 don't have access to equipment in that area that can give them transponder data.

I'd assume that ATC and so on would have access to other sources and would still be able to 'see' those flights. I really can't believe that military radars would be unable to identify a plane at that point and thus see all flights as warning blips. Would they?
overthewing is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:44
  #3274 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Age: 79
Posts: 1,086
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Freight manifest.

Until flight recorders and wreckage has been found the freight manifest is irrelevant, indeed it will only become relevant if the investigation finds evidence of a problem such as a fire in the hold.

At this stage the searchers have better things to occuply their time.
The Ancient Geek is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:50
  #3275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: London
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Inmarsat - this piece is on the BBC website, by a science correspondent Jonathan Amos.

"This story is a mystery for sure, but information is now starting to emerge that allows us to join some of the dots.

We know the aeroplane was fitted with a satellite system that enabled it to pass information to the ground during flight. It is my understanding that this system, operated by London's big satellite telecommunications company Inmarsat, received an automated signal from Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 at least five hours after the plane was reported lost.

There is no way that signal could have been sent unless the plane was intact and powered. These types of satellite systems can pass a range of data, even voice calls.

But even if the last communication was a simple, automated ping carrying no real information, its receipt alone should make it possible to work out an approximate position for the aircraft at the time of that last signal. This may well explain why the US has now sent search teams to the Indian Ocean."


BBC News - Correspondents - Jonathan Amos
newjourno is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 15:57
  #3276 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Internet
Age: 47
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We are solely focusing on pilots and co-pilots, their actions, hobbies, character etc.

Have we considered that due to sudden decompression and *some* mechanical failure both the pilots might have passed out. Then someone else with a little bit of consciousness was trying to fly the plain.

Bringing back to Helios

There seems to be no hijacking or so..

It seems to be a case of multiple mechanical failure.
Neogen is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 16:00
  #3277 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Take your pick
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not sure if this has been posted yet. Looks like this is a good summary of what is happening, good listen for 6 minutes

WSJ Reporter: Missing Flight 370 Could Have Landed | Here & Now
Sporky is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 16:01
  #3278 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Ireland
Posts: 596
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
In fact, if the authorities are not already doing it, they are failing in their duty.
If this were a criminal investigation, then possibly, but it is not.

It is a search and rescue and will remain that until the aircraft is found or information is received that suggests a criminal act. People on the internet speculating about a plane load of gold being hijacked by terrorists and taken to some remote island is not evidence that a crime has been committed.

Were the homes of the flight crew of AF447 searched while the plane was still missing?
Speed of Sound is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 16:01
  #3279 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Las Vegas NV.
Age: 63
Posts: 165
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Does anyone else find it odd that when the search was expanded to the west, China came up with satellite pictures of debris to the east. And now that we are searching a specific flight path to the west, China comes up with a seismic event to the east?

Do the waypoints of this flight path match anything the airline used? Could a canned flight plan have been activated by accident? If not, then someone had to enter the flight plan from the flight deck....

Someone earlier brought up the fuel logs. Very good point. Do we know for sure the aircraft had a normal fuel load for it's intended route, or did it have more?

What the heck is going on?
LASJayhawk is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2014, 16:01
  #3280 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Singapore
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Ancient Geek
That is very one-dimensional thinking.

The cargo manifest could very well shed some light on where the aircraft may have been taken. It might shed some light on who took it, what facilities they would have required to unload and move whatever they were after.

At the very least it would shed light on whether there was actually anything worth stealing in the cargo.

Or maybe they were after a person or persons who were onboard?

Whatever, the details of the cargo manifest are certainly material to the investigation at this point, where almost nothing can be ruled out.
And not exactly onerous for the Malaysians to produce. Unless there's something they don't want us to know.
Hornbill88 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.