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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:24
  #3341 (permalink)  
 
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What about the fuel management system?

Now, as to the military not responding: I would gently mention that, in the height of the Cold War, some youngster flew his four-banger from the Baltic Sea all the way to Moscow and put it down smack in Red Square, and the vaunted USSR military did not react. Then we have the case of those four deserters from the Cuban Navy that stole a gunboat, sailed it right smack past the US Naval Station Key West (with the Cuban pennant flying), on to the dockside at the Hyatt, tied it up, and strolled ashore past the veranda breakfast crowd carrying their rifles, on into the streets of Key West to go find someone to surrender to. They tapped on the shoulder of a cop writing a parking ticket and asked nicely if they could surrender to him. All blithely right through all the advanced military hardware spying on and guarding from the pesky Cubans manned 24/7 for decades. And nobody reacted.

Don't expect too much from either the military or the spooks. Cell-phone calls in English from some lovestruck kid in Boise to his girlfriend are much more interesting to go eavesdrop on. And likely more salacious.

Last edited by OldDutchGuy; 14th Mar 2014 at 21:33. Reason: First paragraph got lost in the ether; had to re-splice.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:26
  #3342 (permalink)  
 
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The Imarsat statement merely mentions routine signals were received and it does not mention how many or for how long.

I seem to remember from early posts that one or possibly two such routine signals occurred at the normal expected times and positions. Receipt of thse two transmissions alone would fall within the statement above.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:31
  #3343 (permalink)  
 
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It was a moonlit night so a change of course would be obvious from the half moon.
The first quarter Moon sets approximately 6 hours after sunset. The Moon that night had set and was well below the horizon when the aircraft apparently turned.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:32
  #3344 (permalink)  
 
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For the rest, how all this has been allowed to happen in 2014, I have not a single clue, like all of us.
Than you are not a pilot or f/a, the reason is a phenomenon called "beancounters", looking for dollars, euros, rupies, pesos you name it!
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:34
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Rolls-Royce Statement - Rolls-Royce

Rolls-Royce Statement
Friday, 14 March 2014
Rolls-Royce continues to provide its full support to the authorities and Malaysia Airlines. Rolls-Royce concurs with the statement made on Thursday 13 March by Malaysia's Transport Minister, Hishammuddin Hussein regarding engine health monitoring data received from the aircraft.
IIRC that statement by the Transport Minister was, only two engine datasets were received, the last one at TOC shortly before the transponder signal was lost. I don't remember any statements if those datasets were transmitted via VHF or SATCOM/Inmarsat.

IF they were transmitted by VHF (possible because close to land), then the Press Release by inmarsat could mean, that the "Routine Messages" were part of lower layer communication between transceiver and satellite. Obvious is that none of the protagonist is making an unambiguous statement.

Last edited by OleOle; 14th Mar 2014 at 19:48.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:35
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Testpanel, I am indeed one of those beancounters. I know how much I spend on training, security and safety. Hence my comment.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:43
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Is it possible the Inmarsat pings continued to be sent after a crash, or successful ditch at sea attempt?
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:44
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How long does the 777 FDR keep info for? Remember in the case of the Helios flight, it flew on for so long all the essential data was wiped.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:45
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Back to the basics...

I have noticed differing posting of the last 10 or so flight data points. The original postings in the early days of this event display the last 2 updates with a flight level of zero(0). The recent postings and news reports I've seen in the media seems to fill in those two values with the same 35,000ft as the rest of the 10 updates rather than the original reports of zero.
This maybe a key oversight. And why so many "experts" are focusing on other areas. I believe the last two reports of zero for altitude along with a constant reading for air speed may provide insight.
1. Is the SPEED input to the TRANSPONDER from a PITOT tube based system or another source, say GPS?
2. If it is PITOT tube based, does it share any sub-system component with the PITOT tube based system providing the ALTIMETER input to the transponder?
3. Once that is established a look at relative placement of the two pitot tubes, common power bus connections to the different/same modules, etc. could be analyzed.
4. Many failure possibilities for a perfectly functioning altimeter would produce erratic readings or at least none-zero reading. For an alt. that has ceased to work, the transponder or the system will fill in "zero's" in the data packet.
The fact that the transponder is instantaneously reporting zero while the a/c is 7 miles high in the sky is a key piece of information. The lack of radio reports while the transponder is still working would indicate an in-cabin event which precluded a radio report. Then over a three minute period the transponder ceases reports all together.
It looks like this geographical area is where transponder updates become sketchy as some historic tracks lose data up to a point just short of reaching the Vietnam coast.
All of this points to a rapidly deteriorating electrical system in the aircraft.
The oil rig observation is interesting. The observer is over 300 nm away but it is a dark, cloudless night. His observation of a burning plane would be down near the horizon. But his comment that, from his vantage point, he could percieve no lateral motion lends credibility to his report as we know the plane had just turned more in his direction, head on along with the indication that the event took place much further away than it appears.
If one of those US destroyers in the area is ASW equipped they should run their towed array sonar along 060 to 075 from LKP. The idea it was still in the air for 4 hrs lacks any published data... same as the "military radar" theory. Lets see some data.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:45
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Inmarsat

From: BBC News - Lost Malaysia plane 'may have flown on for five hours'

'However, the BBC understands that a satellite system operated by London-based telecommunications company Inmarsat received an automated signal from flight MH370 at least five hours after the plane was reported lost.'

have the bbc managed to get inside information from inmarsat?
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:45
  #3351 (permalink)  
 
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FDR 25 hours
CVR 2 hours
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:48
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orfeas

have the bbc managed to get inside information from inmarsat?
Or maybe they've simply got somebody watching Skynews (see the comment about a page back).
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:50
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The Chinese appear to have other resources to confirm the impact.
I am amazed that one can be so naive putting so much value in the Chinese data. And their satellite image showing the "debris" most likely was a total poppycock, probably some sort of political posturing to brag about their satellites. Also witnesses are notoriously wrong - this includes "Michael" working on an oil rig. I rather believe in "electronic" evidence than 100 witnesses. We know from TWA 800 what witnesses are worth.

Last edited by porterhouse; 14th Mar 2014 at 20:04.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:51
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At this rate, passengers will soon be required to switch their phones ON during flight, and de-select Flight Mode.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:53
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Originally Posted by Winston-Smith
Is it possible the Inmarsat pings continued to be sent after a crash, or successful ditch at sea attempt?
Possibly, provided the satellite terminal still had power and the antenna was pointed in approximately the right direction. I could imagine that being true for a while after ditching, but it seems unlikely in a crash.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:55
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Airspeed and pressure altitude both come from the air data box. Would be 429 data between the air data and instruments and transponders.

Mode S sends altitude out 2 different ways the mode C reply in 100' increments and in mode S in 25' increments. If they agree ( say 35,000 and 35,025) the reply is considered valid. If they disagree ( 35,000 and 31,475) the reply is invalid.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:56
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At this rate, passengers will soon be required to switch their phones ON during flight, and de-select Flight Mode
haha! some hectic Airworthiness Directives are gonna come out soon after this MH370 mystery is gonna be solved. Pretty sure they gonna put in place some sorta GPS transponder that is disable-proof!
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:56
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It was a moonlit night so a change of course would be obvious from the half moon.
Per the US Naval Observatory's calculator, moonset in KL was 0039 local, well before 370 reached IGARI and the possible course change. Anyone wanting to navigate by the sky would have had to use stars.

Last edited by djlynch; 14th Mar 2014 at 19:57. Reason: Fixing quote tag
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 19:57
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CaptainJim

Pitot tubes do not feed altimiters.
Pitot tubes always feed separate systems. That is why you have more than one.
Towed array sonar does not do what you think it does.

Aside from that, sounds like you know what you are talking about, Captain....
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 20:01
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Cabin crew.

Whilst we may consider the actions and motives of the flight crew, what about the cabin crew - have they been considered.

I'm cabin crew, with a ppl, and an interest in aviation. I know the basics of flight. I believe I would be capable of altering the auto pilot coordinates. I'm certain that I could not land a B777 without considerable training. Maybe one of the crew thought they could?

Importantly, as a third party hijacker, I know exactly how to enter the flight deck and would my request would not raise any suspicion. Particularly if I'm equipped with two cups of tea at the top of climb.

Just, another, thought
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