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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

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Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost

Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:29
  #3241 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by thcrozier
Way way back in this thread, someone posted a nice map showing a corridor with no overlapping radar coverage on the MP. That was when there were only vague suggestions of a primary paint turning back to the Northwest.

Can't find it now. Anyone have the post #?
... this one? http://www.pprune.org/8368697-post2138.html
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:30
  #3242 (permalink)  
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FE Hoppy

Whilst I would search the homes of the two flight crew, it would be to eliminate, as things stand now.

Having dealt with thousands of criminals, bigtime and smalltime, my instinct on this is that the crew were not involved. They are clearly both intelligent men and would be highly unlikely to do anything so stupidly obvious as to build. A simulator in their house and tell the world. They'd do it on the QT. And the pics I've seen, where he shows all the PC hardware in boxes is not in keeping with a criminal mastermind, just a bloke who loved his hobby.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:30
  #3243 (permalink)  
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Once the aircraft was low enough and in range of mobile phone masts then all mobile phones could be tracked and positioned with some degree of accuracy.
There are no towers in the ocean.

The phone does not even have to be on. Just the battery installed.
Wrong, phones off or in airplane mode do not make any network activity whatsoever.

Once a few mobile numbers of the pax have been identified, pretty simple task, then the position of these phones should be easy to locate
So catch a fly to KL, join the investigation, they will tell you the clown you are instead of me.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:36
  #3244 (permalink)  
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So did they make it to IGREX or was that the last TO waypoint? Or did they get any further according to the pings?
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:36
  #3245 (permalink)  
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I've been flying commercial (747 and AB340s) for longer than I care to admit, and I have a flightsim at home in the basement. Does that make me crazy or a criminal?
Not at all. It means you don't have much of a life.
I got one - computer FMS simulator only. It's a waste of time to use a multimullion level D dollar simulator to practise punching buttons.

Came in handy when I took a B-717 recurrent ride and the powers that be stuck a DC-9 pilot in the right seat (hey, it's the same type rating, isn't it?)
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:37
  #3246 (permalink)  
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You are incorrect. Even with the phone off, it can be activated by suitable equipment and the mic turned on. Someone can listen in to your conversation.

The only way to deactivate the phone is to take the battery out and this is an absolute fact! Google it if you don't believe me. Mobile phones are a tracking device off or on. Fact!

Of course not over the ocean but it was reported to be flying over land.

Pax families will have phone numbers.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:38
  #3247 (permalink)  
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I doubt if all the pax were duped. I usually carry a hand held satnav which works fine by a window seat. Surely there must have been a few awake by the window seats could see that the a/c had changed course dramatically and it being a half moon that night would cast changing shadows on the wing. Therefore it would seem to me that intervention by the pax is highly likely at the later end.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:40
  #3248 (permalink)  
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RE. flight simulators

MS Flight simulator is history. It was taken over by Lockheed Martin, and is promoted as a training tool.
As for the 777: This is a picture of a MS Flight simulator addon from PMDG. It is not just eye candy, it has a programmable FMC, nearly all switches work as they do in a real cockpit. TCAS works. You can simulate failures. You can autoland. All APFD modes work. Autobrakes, autospoilers, cockpit lights. LNAV/VNAV. Radios. Transponder. All displays work. You can download realtime weather. Download nav database which is just the same as the one you got in the real aircraft. You can set it up as a virtual cockpit with the right equipment. Look around the cockpit by turning your head.
Ii is not a toy, it is usable as a training tool on your home PC at the fraction of the cost of a real simulator.

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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:40
  #3249 (permalink)  
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Similar, but the one I'm thinking of also showed the coverage coming down from Thailand, depicting an uncovered "corridor" at about 10N.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:41
  #3250 (permalink)  
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As noted by the Indian navy is virtually impossible that the plane was able to enter the surveillance zone without being detected
The area Andaman Nicobars is a sensitive place under high supervision by the navy based in Port Blair
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:42
  #3251 (permalink)  
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cell phones on or off?

If they are in "flight" mode, they do NOT transmit ANYTHING, by definition. Ditto for "power off". But it makes for good TV at times.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:45
  #3252 (permalink)  
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Non Habeus Corpus (Aircraft)

Some observations intended to prompt professional discussion....

1. SAR Meets Twitter. What that means is, this search for a "missing" airliner totally, thoroughly, completely breaks the mold for what has - until now - been known as Search and Rescue. That is, previously searches for crashed airliners (and related ops, freight primarily, but GA also and that balloonist guy too) have been operated in the realm of what I shall call "the physical" - where's the plane, looking for it in conventional ways. No longer. Not any more. No, this search has taken a great leap forward - it has jumped to what I shall call "the digital": ACARS pings, SATCOM receipt of same, HF and VHF signals, GPS data, the workings of cellular telephony, and likely other data categories whose frequencies were too high for my perception (or too low). This is quite different from conventional Search and Rescue. Closest possible comparator, AF 447, but not truly comparable. If qualified to point factual errors out, please do.

Corollaries of above premise include (a) that such a digital search is not one Malaysian authorities anticipated having to manage, and so let us understand the 'runaway train' this has become for them - as a point for context about their actions and pressers, only; (b) it is fair, reasonable, appropriate, and IMO necessary to enquire whether the current ICAO "air law governance" structure is optimized for such a higher-order search paradigm.

2. An Aviation Crime Investigation? It isn't the "traditional" investigation of a crash, paradigmatically exemplified by the intersecting of a T7 with the outer environs of a SFO runway. Nor is it within the parameters of the expected varieties of hijackings, commandeerings, or outright piracy and terrorist murderous acts. It's a different kind of legal problem set. Note, set, not merely one.

Corollaries are: (a) same two as above; (b) it is legally mandatory to acquire all evidence (the Capt.'s sim (further explicated below), both pilots' homes, the cargo manifest, the recent C-check records, the cellular numbers of everyone on the aircraft (hmm...fake passport info resonating here?), and anything else that could be relevant. As to the Captain's home simulator: it simply does not matter, legally, what anyone, and I mean literally anyone, thinks about his having a simulator. A very simple relevance claim is child's play to establish (i.e., it is neither unreasonable nor unrealistic to postulate that if bad-actors were involved in the incident, that they might have selected this flight in order to have this Captain's specific flying skills at their nefarious disposal; is there something in the sim which is consistent with this postulate?). In a criminal investigation legal counsel would never advise to forego evidence gathering on the premise that other members of a given profession think that an individual quite primarily and centrally involved was a regular guy and had normal interests. It's about the evidence, not the individual.

3. Public-private partnership. As we enter the second week of this incident I pause to kick the tires of an imaginary E-2C lumbering off the runway of what once was NAS Glenview (Illinois, USA), so that I may send a wing and a prayer to the fine men and women in the service of many different nations now engaged in the quest - for that is what it has become - for Captain Shah, his ship and crew, and the souls aboard. When their quest has been fulfilled, and they will find Flight 370, I have faith in their work and dedication, then the legal "fun starts." Later, I may post a legal advocacy theorem as to why, and how "the real juridical party in interest" is a legal and operational combination of the FAA and Boeing (as to form, 'public-private partnership').

Oh and a big Willow Run shout-out to WSJ writer Andy Pasztor, truly great work has he done on this incident! Kudos, mate! Now go find the aircraft.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:45
  #3253 (permalink)  
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With all the talk about having a 777 flight sim in home..plus according to the link posted earlier a model Bell Rc chopper,and a model Catalina float plane with the word 'Rescue' painted on top of the wings..probably just innocent fun.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:46
  #3254 (permalink)  
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We are also off on what is, in my opinion, a highly questionable 'tweet' from 'Singapore something' about supposed routing and altitude. FL295??? - considering the MAF appears to have been asleep at the wheel.......................
This Tweet of a Singapore newpaper was based on an article published by Reuters. Not a small news agency. Here the URL
Investigators focus on foul play behind missing plane-sources | Reuters

The public has seen many inaccurate leads so we do not know for sure if these three deviations of flightplan track actually happened or not.
Seeing the effort now on the west of Malaysia all the way to the Bay of Bengal it looks like the plane is west of Malaysia
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:46
  #3255 (permalink)  
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inmarsat satcom

MAS claims on their website that they provide satellite telephone to their business class passengers in the 772.

MH Experience - Fleet - Boeing 777-200 | Malaysia Airlines

Maybe it's just that - a claim, maybe not.

The rumor has it that Inmarsat plc is in possession of some position data of MH370. What I know about inmarsat is that they use various generations of geostationary satellites. The newer ones - I3/I4 - feature spot beams, so it should be possible to infer a vague line of position every time the ground/airborne equipment changes from one spot beam into another. With a series of that lines of position the course could be vaguely reconstructed.

Maybe something like that was communicated to ABC/WSJ Journalists and it ended up as "GPS postions were contained in the pings" ?

Anybody has more specific info on the Inmarsat Equipment used or used not on MH370 ?

Exclusive: Radar data suggests missing Malaysia plane deliberately flown way off course - sources | Reuters

This alleged report of waypoints deduced from primary radar can also be interpreted a little simpler: Just go west until you intersect the normal route into the indian ocean, then take that route. If VAMPI actually was really reached - or the right turn was made before - remains unclear. Maybe MAF didn't care too much because most of the track was in Thai airspace ?
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:48
  #3256 (permalink)  
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Thanks for a great thread

I've read every single post in this thread and I wanted to take a second to thank everyone for their contributions-

I do understand that the mixture of professional and non-professional information can be confusing at times, however, I find the diversity of information incredibly useful-- I learn from questions answered, I skim over areas that I already know and slow down when new or expanded information is provided.

Overall, I wouldn't change much- it's extremely useful to an old GA pilot interested in keeping up with aviation.

The one thing that would help the thread is avoiding dissension as much as possible. A question or theory may seem way out in left field, however, the rest of us might appreciate out of the box thinking and something closer to the truth should emerge down the road one way or the other.

It seems logical to save corrections for major misinformation, especially intentional disinformation, and it would be best if we leave it to the pros to make that call. If noise levels are low and only Sr. contributors discredit a post, the rest of us will know that the information is extremely suspect.

Thanks again for a great thread, an incredible forum and I'm glad that PPrune is getting good press.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:49
  #3257 (permalink)  
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Perhaps if we are going to investigate the Captain's 'Flight Sim' activities, we should investigate all aircrew who take photographs of aircraft, or give up their own time to fly/commentate at air shows, or do other aviation related things.
While we're at it it, why not investigate all the ATCOs who volunteer to work at RIAT every year? Doing aviation related stuff in your own time?…Must be suspicious.
For many professional aviation licence holders, (myself included), aviation is a passion, not just a job. For others, (quite understandably), it is something which is left behind at the airport/ATC Centre, (or wherever), when heading home.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:49
  #3258 (permalink)  
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I don't recall this information having been posted on the thread:

Date: 8 MAR 2014
Moonrise: 12:57 (early afternoon)
Moonset: 00:40 (after midnight)
Moon at meridian: 19:13
Angle at meridian: 73.2
Illumination at meridian: 49.2%
(First quarter at 21:27)

The flight was conducted entirely in darkness, moonset was just about take-off time. Not implying that this is of any relevance, for info only.

Last edited by andrasz; 14th Mar 2014 at 15:23.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:55
  #3259 (permalink)  
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Jet fuel slick

Jet fuel is very close indeed to diesel. Ships use & leak same, as well as transport loads of it. It came from a ship.
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Old 14th Mar 2014, 14:59
  #3260 (permalink)  
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You are incorrect. Even with the phone off, it can be activated by suitable equipment and the mic turned on. Someone can listen in to your conversation.
Only if the phone has somehow been bugged. Nowadays that's achieved by installing malware, or reflashing with some non-official firmware.

But a non-modified phone shouldn't give any RF activity whatsoever when in flight mode or turned off.
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