Thomson 737 lands on taxiway at Paphos?
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From: Wayne Manor
These things need to be discussed, but we really need an aircrew only private forum to discuss these things away from ignorant eyes and possible manipulation.
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From: L.A.
If flight crew have been diligently filing reports on how such confusion can arise at PFO, then this crew may have an easier time of it. If PFO isn't that much of a problem, or as is often the case, crew are reluctant to report the potential hazard then the problem will be harder to work with and crew may not be as prepared as perhaps they should be.
Come off it, chum. Responsible safety reporting went out of aviation with the advent of a certain Irish airline and Low Standards flying.
Too much safety reporting results in P45s, because it slows the operation down and makes it safer. And the CAA don't give a damn, because they are wimps who quake at the knees at the sound of an Irish accent. Best keep the head down, and keep the wife and kids in with a roof over their heads (and that's just the CAA desk jockeys, not the flight crew.)
Last edited by silverstrata; 15th November 2011 at 18:15.
Joined: Sep 2010
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: by the seaside
Sadly Silverstrata you are only too right.
Made two reports to the IAA which got "lost", eventually spoke to one of the overseers who virtually told me that I was a liar.
The one I didn't report was when one carrier lined up on the closed runway at MRS and only burnt the approach around 500ft when even a blind man could see the tipper trucks and rollers on the runway - we landed 15 mins later.
But don't be too hard on the Irish it goes on in many countries.
Made two reports to the IAA which got "lost", eventually spoke to one of the overseers who virtually told me that I was a liar.
The one I didn't report was when one carrier lined up on the closed runway at MRS and only burnt the approach around 500ft when even a blind man could see the tipper trucks and rollers on the runway - we landed 15 mins later.
But don't be too hard on the Irish it goes on in many countries.
Joined: Jun 2002
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From: Saaaaaaffffhampton
Taxi way landing
It's great how opinion is divided, TOM pilots defending, then state wait for the report......so wait for the report
Also - Re-training should always be considered.
Mistakes happen, however if there had been a plane on the taxi way would we all have been saying the same?
We are assuming that none of the crew had been there before also.
It's good to squalk :-)
Also - Re-training should always be considered.
Mistakes happen, however if there had been a plane on the taxi way would we all have been saying the same?
We are assuming that none of the crew had been there before also.
It's good to squalk :-)
Last edited by carbonfibre; 1st January 2012 at 09:30.
Joined: Jun 1999
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From: world
Since visibility at the time was not that bad, I suspect that if there had been an aeroplane on the taxiway they would have realised their error and simply gone around and no one apart from the F/D would have been any the wiser.
Joined: Aug 1998
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From: Ex-pat Aussie in the UK
I went to Pafos for the first time today. I have to say: the taxi way is the same colour, same orientation, the PAPI is between the two (so looks like it could apply to either) ... and the configuration is unusual in that the taxiway is opposite the terminal side.
It's an easy mistake for an unwary pilot ...
It's an easy mistake for an unwary pilot ...
Joined: Apr 2003
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From: UK
According to my Navtechs, the PAPIs for RWs 11 and 29 are indeed on the LHS.
The RW is nearer to the terminal than the parallel taxiway.
If you are approaching RW 11 then the PAPI is between the RW and the taxiway; if you are approaching RW 29 then the PAPI is not between them.
The RW is nearer to the terminal than the parallel taxiway.
If you are approaching RW 11 then the PAPI is between the RW and the taxiway; if you are approaching RW 29 then the PAPI is not between them.
Joined: Feb 2001
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From: UK
Checkboard... no pilot should be "unwary", especially on approach.. and there is no way you can mistake the runway for the parallel taxyway at Paphos.. I have flown in there several times , including yesterday, and I still can't figure out how anyone can manage to land on the wrong piece of tarmac.
Last edited by Smudger; 19th July 2012 at 12:23.
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From: LHR
Smudger - had you flown in therefor the first time in exactly the same conditions as the TOM then who's to say? CAVOK it might be easy to differentiate but in a setting sun with a bit of haze it could be really tricky.I'm sure the Air France boys would have looked astounded at anyone who pulled back in a stall and said they would never have done that, but look what happened...
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From: uk
If there is no way you can confuse the two Smudger then how the hell did these guys do it
They must have done it deliberately, for !!!!s and giggles maybe?
Still, if they did do it deliberately, just for !!!!s and giggles, they are both a whole world safer than you because you are clearly infallible as your assertion that something that couldn't happen ( but still did) would attest.
Oh, and BTW, I know both of these guys personally and no way did they do it deliberately, even for etc
They must have done it deliberately, for !!!!s and giggles maybe?
Still, if they did do it deliberately, just for !!!!s and giggles, they are both a whole world safer than you because you are clearly infallible as your assertion that something that couldn't happen ( but still did) would attest.
Oh, and BTW, I know both of these guys personally and no way did they do it deliberately, even for etc
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Thessaloniki, GRECE
Article this morning in the biggest Greek newspaper of the island confirms It but says its not the taxiway they used but the parallel secondary runway used by the military base which sits inside the airport and next to the civil aircraft facilities. Article says Russian airline with 123 pax and pilot apologiSed immediatedly after realizing his mistake. http://www.philenews.com/el-gr/Eidis...afos-stin-pafo
Joined: Jan 1999
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From: north of barlu
Edset
It is a Military standby runway and so bigger that your average taxiway......that is way it attracts the eye of pilots.
You are correct that it is marked as a taxiway however you are unlikely to see these markings untill you are committed to a landing or go around, what is most unlikely is for an aircraft to land on the military standby runway/ taxiway if another aircraft was on it as these incidents all happen in daytime VMC.
I agree that this is a problem at this airfield and perhaps it should be addressed by putting a white strobe light each side of the runway threshold to attract the eye of pilots on approach.
What won't stop this happening is sixteen pages of posts telling these pilots what idiots they are, it is clear that this airfield tricks pilots into making a mistake and so measures should be taken by the airport authority's to make the mistakes less likely.
As for those who still think these pilots are idiots for making this mistake that you could not possibly make it is time to take a look at your attitude because if you don't it is only a matter of time before you are the subject of pages of "advice" from the pprune guild of perfect pilots.
You are correct that it is marked as a taxiway however you are unlikely to see these markings untill you are committed to a landing or go around, what is most unlikely is for an aircraft to land on the military standby runway/ taxiway if another aircraft was on it as these incidents all happen in daytime VMC.
I agree that this is a problem at this airfield and perhaps it should be addressed by putting a white strobe light each side of the runway threshold to attract the eye of pilots on approach.
What won't stop this happening is sixteen pages of posts telling these pilots what idiots they are, it is clear that this airfield tricks pilots into making a mistake and so measures should be taken by the airport authority's to make the mistakes less likely.
As for those who still think these pilots are idiots for making this mistake that you could not possibly make it is time to take a look at your attitude because if you don't it is only a matter of time before you are the subject of pages of "advice" from the pprune guild of perfect pilots.
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From: UK
Daytime VMC.. Exactly!!! At night, you can't see ANYTHING except the runway in the surrounding blackness....
Daytime, if there was an aircraft on the taxiway it would be seen, therefore sidestep to runway or go-around!!
Problem needs to be addressed by Paphos Airport/Cypriot CAA, and not by the Guild of Perfect Pilots previously mentioned!!
Daytime, if there was an aircraft on the taxiway it would be seen, therefore sidestep to runway or go-around!!
Problem needs to be addressed by Paphos Airport/Cypriot CAA, and not by the Guild of Perfect Pilots previously mentioned!!
Last edited by BN2A; 20th July 2012 at 16:26. Reason: Geographical incompetence!!!
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From: Delsey
Problem needs to be addressed by Paphos Airport/Greek CAA, and not by the Guild of Perfect Pilots previously mentioned!!
Rumour has it that after the Tfly incident they were going to mark them as 29L/R but obviously that's not happened.