Afriqiyah Airbus 330 Crash
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and I'm sure the new Libyan government doesn't want to do anything that has ties to the former dictatorship. They said very clearly that they don't reconsider any claims before the revolution, be it legal cases (against Bulgarians, Swiss), be it the Pan Am bomber, be it a lawsuit against Ghadaffi (they just killed him). This is year zero after the revolution, from now on they count from new and don't look back.
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Dani:
This accident and its attendant politics is as good of a lesson as any why third world airlines should be avoided.
and I'm sure the new Libyan government doesn't want to do anything that has ties to the former dictatorship. They said very clearly that they don't reconsider any claims before the revolution, be it legal cases (against Bulgarians, Swiss), be it the Pan Am bomber, be it a lawsuit against Ghadaffi (they just killed him). This is year zero after the revolution, from now on they count from new and don't look back.
What aterpster said.
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I would accept Amer' s wording as being the most appropriate explanation for this unnecessary drama.
Airbus (and other manufaturers) should have the self-discipline not to sell those overcomplicated pieces of technology to incapable (B-class or lower) operators. That should be a number 1 target. And certainly not into African airspace, where well executed maintenance (not in this case) is as seldom as gold on the streets of Cairo.
Airbus (and other manufaturers) should have the self-discipline not to sell those overcomplicated pieces of technology to incapable (B-class or lower) operators. That should be a number 1 target. And certainly not into African airspace, where well executed maintenance (not in this case) is as seldom as gold on the streets of Cairo.
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Originally Posted by aterpster
This accident and its attendant politics is as good of a lesson as any why third world airlines should be avoided.
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It is fairly self-evident this accident arose because of pilot error in that a 100% serviceable A330 operated well within its design capability and approved weather limits crashed during the incorrect execution of a go-around.
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Libyan Civil Aviation Authorities have been warned officially by EASA on falling below all acceptable standards.
This includes safety oversight on its operators (a.o. Afriqiyah) and their own organization.
Most likely the Libyans will now blame non Libyans, preferably Westerners, for this disaster.
This includes safety oversight on its operators (a.o. Afriqiyah) and their own organization.
Most likely the Libyans will now blame non Libyans, preferably Westerners, for this disaster.
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The Libyans will be very reluctant in moving this investigation forward since they don't want to 'crap on their own doorstep'! Having worked as crew for a Libyan operator in the past, I know that suffering a 'loss of face' in that part of the world is nothing short of humiliating. Afriqiyah had and will perhaps now have even more ambitious expansion plans. Tarnishing the image of the national carrier will not be something that the Libyans will be in a hurry to do.
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Mister Geezer:
Huh? They have already done that with the speed of light. The new government is really screwed up if they believe they can leave that terrible crash unexplained.
The Libyans will be very reluctant in moving this investigation forward since they don't want to 'crap on their own doorstep'! Having worked as crew for a Libyan operator in the past, I know that suffering a 'loss of face' in that part of the world is nothing short of humiliating. Afriqiyah had and will perhaps now have even more ambitious expansion plans. Tarnishing the image of the national carrier will not be something that the Libyans will be in a hurry to do.
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Whilst Afriqiyah is looked upon in varying degrees of favour by the outside world, no Libyan connected to the government nor the investigation has publicly denounced the company. Nor will they probably even dare to do so either and it has nothing to do with free speech or democracy. Libyans are probably the most hospitable group of people I have ever worked with but they are also some of the most reserved too.
It is going to take Libya a long time to create a credible and robust government to lead the country forward. Investigating an accident which involves their national carrier will be far down their list of priorities. As each month passes, it becomes less likely that any credible findings will ever be published.
That statement maybe rather controversial and perhaps difficult to comprehend but there are not many countries that are in the process of rebuilding themselves from scratch after just over four decades under ruthless dictatorship. Libya is unique in many ways.
It is going to take Libya a long time to create a credible and robust government to lead the country forward. Investigating an accident which involves their national carrier will be far down their list of priorities. As each month passes, it becomes less likely that any credible findings will ever be published.
That statement maybe rather controversial and perhaps difficult to comprehend but there are not many countries that are in the process of rebuilding themselves from scratch after just over four decades under ruthless dictatorship. Libya is unique in many ways.
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Thread drift prhaps, but I'm with BOAC on this question.
Used to work in the oil industry for the French arm of a huge multinational and the level of corporate arrogance had to be seen to be believed. This I think was a reflection of their national culture.
Used to work in the oil industry for the French arm of a huge multinational and the level of corporate arrogance had to be seen to be believed. This I think was a reflection of their national culture.
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Always funny when the Brits start accusing the French of arrogance... (pot, kettle..) :roll eyes:
Anyway, they have loads of data + CVR. While the official report is farther away then ever, a lot of French, US, and Dutch investigators must have a very good idea of what happened, but the only thing in the rumour-circuit was the F/O supposedly mixing up the x-mit button with the a/p disconnect button (and which was probably not more than that, a rumour).
Really no news??
Anyway, they have loads of data + CVR. While the official report is farther away then ever, a lot of French, US, and Dutch investigators must have a very good idea of what happened, but the only thing in the rumour-circuit was the F/O supposedly mixing up the x-mit button with the a/p disconnect button (and which was probably not more than that, a rumour).
Really no news??
Paxing All Over The World
Giolla
That is, if I might venture, a slightly unrealistic view of a commercial company? In the same way that Holland might not sell water damming equipment and channeling expertise to countries that might then severly alter the balance of water flows in their country and cause unexpected flooding?
Airbus (and other manufaturers) should have the self-discipline not to sell those overcomplicated pieces of technology to incapable (B-class or lower) operators. That should be a number 1 target.
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Airbus is in fact actually doing that (in contradiction to a certain B-company, that's why you see mainly 737 in low developped countries). But oil rich countries used to have a quite good safety record so far.
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@ Paxboy
The volumes of investment required to operate and maintain a single up-to-date passenger A/C to FAA standards is far beyond the assets of the majority of B class (African) operators.
I would be interested to know if any payment has been effectuated as per yet to the estates of the deceased passengers.
The volumes of investment required to operate and maintain a single up-to-date passenger A/C to FAA standards is far beyond the assets of the majority of B class (African) operators.
I would be interested to know if any payment has been effectuated as per yet to the estates of the deceased passengers.
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As I understand it, it was Khadaffi's personal intend to make Afriqiyah the nr 1 airline of Africa. So money was probably no issue. (Kind of Emirates' remake in another desert)
How they will fare under new circumstances remains something else.
How they will fare under new circumstances remains something else.
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I do not point at Afriqiyah in this respect. The A/C was close to new and most probably 99% to factory specs.
Evaluating the present political situation in Libya, the crash might never been explained for. Unless some miracle will happen.
Evaluating the present political situation in Libya, the crash might never been explained for. Unless some miracle will happen.