United GRU-ORD Divert to MIA to Offload Purser
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[quote=Does he have my respect because he wears a uniform and sits in the left seat??? Hell no!!! Hasn't and NEVER will earn it. OK...for all of you "know it all's, I'm the captain and what I say is law..." hate to break it to you, you're human like the rest of us[/quote]
Wow. Is every venue and moment in life to be some great parliament democracy demanding a vote or some kind of communal mob consensus?
If I am a passenger on an aircraft, YOU are immediately afforded some respect SOLELY DUE TO YOUR UNIFORM and the fact that United put you in the position that you have! I do this and provide this respect immediately and not at the end of several flights where I judge your mettle and decide that you are worthy.
It is obvious, despite your posting of what may or may not be 'inside information' that you are not flight crew at United or ANY AIRLINE nor even a passenger on that particular flight!
In fact, If you exhibit the same 'vibe' in person as you do in your posts, I am really doubtful you would have made it past screening!
(arent you on a 'dont fly list' somewhere??
)
Wow. Is every venue and moment in life to be some great parliament democracy demanding a vote or some kind of communal mob consensus?
If I am a passenger on an aircraft, YOU are immediately afforded some respect SOLELY DUE TO YOUR UNIFORM and the fact that United put you in the position that you have! I do this and provide this respect immediately and not at the end of several flights where I judge your mettle and decide that you are worthy.
It is obvious, despite your posting of what may or may not be 'inside information' that you are not flight crew at United or ANY AIRLINE nor even a passenger on that particular flight!
In fact, If you exhibit the same 'vibe' in person as you do in your posts, I am really doubtful you would have made it past screening!
(arent you on a 'dont fly list' somewhere??
)
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Well in the new spirit of our times, I really do hope the chief pursar can fly a NDB approach at minimums to land. Coffee and a good feeling will, obviously, not be optional!
I wish this Captain the best!
I wish this Captain the best!
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nambifox
My "beef?" Many on this thread seem to believe that the Purser without a doubt is at fault and the captain is right...NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES!! If the situation were reversed...I'd defend the one that was wronged, but I get quite weary of person's "KNOWING WITHOUT A DOUBT" that the Purser was in the wrong and the almighty captain is above reproach...in this situation, this is not the case. While the Purser is not allowed to make a defense....there are those of us who will put through a defense for the wronged.
.. You never answered...do you defend the NORTHWEST PILOTS??
.. You never answered...do you defend the NORTHWEST PILOTS??
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Based on Facts
I am not pointing any fingers here. We all seek the truth. I know you do. You appear to be privy to the basics here. Put your emotions aside and lay down the facts as if in a court! Can you do it?
Justice demands nothing less!
I am not pointing any fingers here. We all seek the truth. I know you do. You appear to be privy to the basics here. Put your emotions aside and lay down the facts as if in a court! Can you do it?
Justice demands nothing less!
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nambifox
That's just what I did in the very beginning of this therad and because people couldn't actually believe that a captain might be less than Godly and certainly not wrong...whatever I wrote people attempted to discredit the facts...can't be done. The truth prevails and ALWAYS will...luckily for me...I'm not bothered by the barbs...I know the truth.
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We still don't have any real facts but nothing so far shows the captain was wrong by removing her from the aircraft for insubordination and possibly food issues. Lets wait for the facts before we judge. He was the captain and did what he thought was necessary.
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nambifox
While I don't appreciate your last demand, I will REPEAT the info that I offered after the incident. To many pages to sift through to guide you to it.
The capt. & purser had a preflight briefing...no problems. Take off without incident. First Officer came out imediately it was safe for his break. He complained that the capt. made he and other First Officer call him, "Sir" or "Capt." for their 4 day trip and he made their trip miserable. At United this is VERY odd. We are a very friendly airline and usually have very good relations between ALL crew members. The purser was in back of aircraft for a short period of time. During that time capt. called for "Crew Decs." Gen Decs had already been completed and given to capt. immediately after take off. Purser returned to the First Class cabin and was given the message that capt. wanted Crew Decs. She called capt. and asked if she could bring them up in 10 minutes when she was to bring up their meals. He literally yelled he wanted them now!!! She said, "ok." She was in the process of retrieving them when her phone rang. She answered and the captain was now screaming that he wanted the Crew Decs NOW!! He was loud enough that others heard him through the closed door. (There are witnesses) She answered, "I'm getting them, I'm right here." She slid them under the door, as is a common practice, as she didn't have anyone there to open the door, per regulations. She covered the cockpit for 2 bathroom breaks when they were requested with no problem. About six hours after the last time she saw the capt. (bathroom break) she was awakened from her break by another Flight Attendant saying that the capt. wants to talk to her as they were landing in Miami in 40 minutes. She jumped up asked what happened and at the same time gave orders to prepare for landing by closing galleys etc. She went right up to her phone, called cockpit and told capt. she's right there and will be right up. Capt said," no you won't." It must be said that, she thought they were preparing for the worst...a cabin prep. Once the capt. said she was not to come in the cockpit...she feared there had been another "911" type situation where US cockpits were sealed. She asked what were her instructions (in US, we wait for whatever instructions our capts. give us) He told her they were landing in Miami in 40 minutes and SHE was being removed. She was stunned to say the least...thankfully, there was more than one witness on various interphones. She asked was she the only one being removed and what did she do? She was informed she was a security concern. When she again asked what had she done, she was told she could talk to a supervisor in Chicago about it. The only annoucement the capt. made to the psgrs. was that they were landing in Miami in 20 minutes. The very unfortunate part was that Air France had JUST "gone down" coming out of Brazil to Paris...several psgrs. began to cry, fearing th worst.The plane landed, Immigration met the flight, Purser walked off and Immigration spoke at length with the capt. They asked him to step off aircraft and he refused, they asked to board to talk to him...again he refused. They were shocked at his rational for landing an aircraft for not getting Crew Doc when he wanted, when in reality he DID get them. There was NO fighting, no chaos no nothing. That's what makes this so unbeliveable and such a question. Our pilots as a whole support our Purser, the capt. for putting her through hell, although she has handeled it and herself quite well. To date this capt. is not flying and from all accounts FAA is going after him for numerous FAR violations. It should also be mentioned that our pilots are stunned that the 2 First Officers continued to fly with this guy. The Purser asked her crew if they could possibly remain onboard and get the aircraft and psgrs. to Chicago...this is why we did not deplane with her. For all of us...pilots included...she's our hero. A pilot who knows her said he naturally heard about the situation and once he found out SHE was the Purser , he KNEW there was something wrong with the capt. That's the the general party line.
Believe me, I know the whole thing sounds absurd! That's why I think everyone not only on this blog but others as well just can't comput it.
So, there you have it. ok everyone....have at it...again...
The capt. & purser had a preflight briefing...no problems. Take off without incident. First Officer came out imediately it was safe for his break. He complained that the capt. made he and other First Officer call him, "Sir" or "Capt." for their 4 day trip and he made their trip miserable. At United this is VERY odd. We are a very friendly airline and usually have very good relations between ALL crew members. The purser was in back of aircraft for a short period of time. During that time capt. called for "Crew Decs." Gen Decs had already been completed and given to capt. immediately after take off. Purser returned to the First Class cabin and was given the message that capt. wanted Crew Decs. She called capt. and asked if she could bring them up in 10 minutes when she was to bring up their meals. He literally yelled he wanted them now!!! She said, "ok." She was in the process of retrieving them when her phone rang. She answered and the captain was now screaming that he wanted the Crew Decs NOW!! He was loud enough that others heard him through the closed door. (There are witnesses) She answered, "I'm getting them, I'm right here." She slid them under the door, as is a common practice, as she didn't have anyone there to open the door, per regulations. She covered the cockpit for 2 bathroom breaks when they were requested with no problem. About six hours after the last time she saw the capt. (bathroom break) she was awakened from her break by another Flight Attendant saying that the capt. wants to talk to her as they were landing in Miami in 40 minutes. She jumped up asked what happened and at the same time gave orders to prepare for landing by closing galleys etc. She went right up to her phone, called cockpit and told capt. she's right there and will be right up. Capt said," no you won't." It must be said that, she thought they were preparing for the worst...a cabin prep. Once the capt. said she was not to come in the cockpit...she feared there had been another "911" type situation where US cockpits were sealed. She asked what were her instructions (in US, we wait for whatever instructions our capts. give us) He told her they were landing in Miami in 40 minutes and SHE was being removed. She was stunned to say the least...thankfully, there was more than one witness on various interphones. She asked was she the only one being removed and what did she do? She was informed she was a security concern. When she again asked what had she done, she was told she could talk to a supervisor in Chicago about it. The only annoucement the capt. made to the psgrs. was that they were landing in Miami in 20 minutes. The very unfortunate part was that Air France had JUST "gone down" coming out of Brazil to Paris...several psgrs. began to cry, fearing th worst.The plane landed, Immigration met the flight, Purser walked off and Immigration spoke at length with the capt. They asked him to step off aircraft and he refused, they asked to board to talk to him...again he refused. They were shocked at his rational for landing an aircraft for not getting Crew Doc when he wanted, when in reality he DID get them. There was NO fighting, no chaos no nothing. That's what makes this so unbeliveable and such a question. Our pilots as a whole support our Purser, the capt. for putting her through hell, although she has handeled it and herself quite well. To date this capt. is not flying and from all accounts FAA is going after him for numerous FAR violations. It should also be mentioned that our pilots are stunned that the 2 First Officers continued to fly with this guy. The Purser asked her crew if they could possibly remain onboard and get the aircraft and psgrs. to Chicago...this is why we did not deplane with her. For all of us...pilots included...she's our hero. A pilot who knows her said he naturally heard about the situation and once he found out SHE was the Purser , he KNEW there was something wrong with the capt. That's the the general party line.
Believe me, I know the whole thing sounds absurd! That's why I think everyone not only on this blog but others as well just can't comput it.
So, there you have it. ok everyone....have at it...again...
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I must add to the above post that there was never a "threat" to capts. food (remember...she as well as the rst of us were onboard!!) If that had been the case she would be gone and she's flying a regular schedule and has since July.
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Hmmm, still sounds to me that we have a purser with an 'issue'...perhaps only she knows for sure.
Of course, we have been presented with only one side of the 'disagreement'...would be interesting to know what the concerned Captain thinks/knows.
Of course, we have been presented with only one side of the 'disagreement'...would be interesting to know what the concerned Captain thinks/knows.
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Cross examination.. - verdict?
Originally Posted by based on some Facts but not the 'truth'
He complained that the capt. made he and other First Officer call him, "Sir" or "Capt." for their 4 day trip and he made their trip miserable. At United this is VERY odd. We are a very friendly airline and usually have very good relations between ALL crew members
1. The purser was in back of aircraft for a short period of time.
2/During that time capt. called for "Crew Decs."
i.Gen Decs had already been completed and given to capt. immediately after take off
3. Purser returned to the First Class cabin and was given the message that capt. wanted Crew Decs.
4. She called capt. and asked if she could bring them up in 10 minutes when she was to bring up their meals.
i. He literally yelled he wanted them now!!! She said, "ok."
5.She was in the process of retrieving them when her phone rang. She answered and the captain was now screaming that he wanted the Crew Decs NOW!! He was loud enough that others heard him through the closed door. (There are witnesses)
i.She answered, "I'm getting them, I'm right here." She slid them under the door, as is a common practice, as she didn't have anyone there to open the door, per regulations.
1. The purser was in back of aircraft for a short period of time.
2/During that time capt. called for "Crew Decs."
i.Gen Decs had already been completed and given to capt. immediately after take off
3. Purser returned to the First Class cabin and was given the message that capt. wanted Crew Decs.
4. She called capt. and asked if she could bring them up in 10 minutes when she was to bring up their meals.
i. He literally yelled he wanted them now!!! She said, "ok."
5.She was in the process of retrieving them when her phone rang. She answered and the captain was now screaming that he wanted the Crew Decs NOW!! He was loud enough that others heard him through the closed door. (There are witnesses)
i.She answered, "I'm getting them, I'm right here." She slid them under the door, as is a common practice, as she didn't have anyone there to open the door, per regulations.
At 2.1 you state the following
2i.Gen Decs had already been completed and given to capt. immediately after take off
However later you state:
3. Purser returned to the First Class cabin and was given the message that capt. wanted Crew Decs.
4. She called capt. and asked if she could bring them up in 10 minutes when she was to bring up their meals.
i. He literally yelled he wanted them now!!! She said, "ok."
What really happened?
I also note, according to the transcript, she addressed him with "Ok" as opposed to "Ok Sir" (which you previously noted the Captain preferred to be addressed "Sir"-as was his right, according to his station, rank and position)
Your narrative looks very much like that of someone was not even there, to be honest...
Can you give a time span between 3..4 and between 4..5?
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What would your assessment be if the Purser did NOT have an "issue" and there was no argument?
And, I would reserve judgement until I heard the Captains explanation.
This seems entirely reasonable to me.
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cessnapuppy
You truly are the slow one in the group..fear not..I'll help you along.
1) There is a difference between "Gen Decs" and "Crew Decs." Gen Decs are signed by Purser and capt. Crew Decs are given to each crew member to fill out and present upon first port of entry in US. So you see, what I wrote is correct...Gen Decs were given AFTER take off and Crew decs were demanded at a later point in time.
2) The Flight Attendants were not asked/told to call the capt. anything, in fact he never introduced himself...he just launched into preflight briefing on aircraft. That was only said to fellow pilots upon beginning of their 4 day trip together. They did not fly the 4 day trip with us (F/A's). We only flew with them that one segment.
1) There is a difference between "Gen Decs" and "Crew Decs." Gen Decs are signed by Purser and capt. Crew Decs are given to each crew member to fill out and present upon first port of entry in US. So you see, what I wrote is correct...Gen Decs were given AFTER take off and Crew decs were demanded at a later point in time.
2) The Flight Attendants were not asked/told to call the capt. anything, in fact he never introduced himself...he just launched into preflight briefing on aircraft. That was only said to fellow pilots upon beginning of their 4 day trip together. They did not fly the 4 day trip with us (F/A's). We only flew with them that one segment.