Passenger safety compromised at TAP
The problem, SC, is that you have come bearing a gift, that gift being the reference to AEI's press release which mentions "proof" to be found on their website. That proof may even be your own whistleblower submission to them (inferred, perhaps mistakenly, from one of your previous posts) but, as you have also ascertained, the proof doesn't seem to be there. Maybe it was before but has been removed after threat of legal action.
And, in reading back through this thread, your comments and the rather inflated prose on the AEI site, I'm no longer sure whether the target of it all is TAP or ECA.
And, in reading back through this thread, your comments and the rather inflated prose on the AEI site, I'm no longer sure whether the target of it all is TAP or ECA.
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PFJI. Not that I care one way or the other, but this has to win the prize for Least Credible Pprune Accusation of the year 2008. 
At least try to get an actual newspaper to publish it, for God's sake--they're suckers for this kind of story and it's not like they will go fact-checking or anything like that, yet being in print gives it instant credibility with the masses.
But what I wanted to ask: so what is AEI anyway? The closest thing a Google search brings up is a Spanish civil engineering company.
At least try to get an actual newspaper to publish it, for God's sake--they're suckers for this kind of story and it's not like they will go fact-checking or anything like that, yet being in print gives it instant credibility with the masses.
But what I wanted to ask: so what is AEI anyway? The closest thing a Google search brings up is a Spanish civil engineering company.
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@broadreach, I admit I wander off a little at times mainly because I feel so strongly about this and am having to learn the politics of it all at the same time. I have no connection with TAP at all and have only reported my opinion on the AEI press release as the situation as described in it, is very close to my own personal experiences.
I absolutely deplore the company/commercial minded behaviour of some pilots but am not keen on a public mud slinging match. I really do request ECA to seriously consider AEI's suggestion of coming to the table for discussions on this as well. Perhaps my naive knowledge of the politics here makes that sound ridiculous, I don't know. But that's my agenda.
The proof aspect is disappointing and as stated in an earlier post I have emailed them but no response yet. Whether it has to do with legal action I really don't know.
AEI (Aircraft Engineers International) is a body representing engineers interests globally. Thats why I can't believe there is no evidence. They have far too much to lose if this was instigated to assist a strike or in fact instigated for any reason other than its true.
I absolutely deplore the company/commercial minded behaviour of some pilots but am not keen on a public mud slinging match. I really do request ECA to seriously consider AEI's suggestion of coming to the table for discussions on this as well. Perhaps my naive knowledge of the politics here makes that sound ridiculous, I don't know. But that's my agenda.
The proof aspect is disappointing and as stated in an earlier post I have emailed them but no response yet. Whether it has to do with legal action I really don't know.
AEI (Aircraft Engineers International) is a body representing engineers interests globally. Thats why I can't believe there is no evidence. They have far too much to lose if this was instigated to assist a strike or in fact instigated for any reason other than its true.
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Originally Posted by LH2
But what I wanted to ask: so what is AEI anyway? The closest thing a Google search brings up is a Spanish civil engineering company.
Domain name registrant and server in Norway.
Their press release seems defamatory.
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Safety Concerns: don't worry these TAP guys are not used to being criticized. You have to understand them: highly paid in a poor country, working for a monopolistic state owned airline that never gave a profit since founded more than 50 years ago.
They believe they are above everyone but time will tell the truth.
They believe they are above everyone but time will tell the truth.
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I will state again, I have no axe to grind and I would prefer ... blablabla
Seriously, tells us who you are and why do you keep all this circus going on and on post after post? are you trying to get an edge for next month negociations?
GD&L
P.S.-you know where ODLIX is, right?
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Seriously, tells us who you are and why do you keep all this circus going on and on post after post?
I don't know what more I can say other than "I have absolutely no connection with TAP or any strike or any negotiations".
I didn't know where odlix was until I googled.
My interest has already been clearly stated.
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AEI
This telephone number is a cell-phone.
AEI is a joke, could be invented by a passenger who lost some luggage on a TAP flight.
CONTACT: PR officer e-mail: [email protected] e-mail: [email protected] Tel: +31 655 930 175 WWW: Aircraft Engineers International
AEI is a joke, could be invented by a passenger who lost some luggage on a TAP flight.
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Safety Concerns: don't worry these TAP guys are not used to being criticized. You have to understand them: highly paid in a poor country, working for a monopolistic state owned airline that never gave a profit since founded more than 50 years ago.
They believe they are above everyone but time will tell the truth.
They believe they are above everyone but time will tell the truth.
And for the record, since the new Adminstration took place, TAP was done profits. And if you be a interessed person and read some opinion articles in aviation business, you will see that TAP is put as one of the companies that could survive this world crisis.
But leave the Portuguese alone and return to Algarve to enjoy you vacations and make fun you every servant that you encounter....
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YAMO (Yet Another Mechanic Organization), like there weren't that much already to go around, another flower blooms.
One thing we must agree is that it hit the PR jackpot. Since the only truth behind all this is that TAP has a very high standard in safety, so it would be obvious that this news would result in a great surprise to everyone in the industry, and therefore would call upon great attention from everyone. It is great fuel for a startup like this, but one that wont go that far and indeed can fire back, since it is absolutely wrong.
If this YAMO was for real i guess there would be some better targets to get at.
Nothing is perfect in the line, but there are standards that draw the line, and real companies work to be within them.
Trying to damage the company you work for is not good policy, that is my advise to the anachronistic communist union leaders that fill in the ranks.
There is a saying that applies perfectly to this: - Don't spit at the soup, because you may have to eat it next.
One thing we must agree is that it hit the PR jackpot. Since the only truth behind all this is that TAP has a very high standard in safety, so it would be obvious that this news would result in a great surprise to everyone in the industry, and therefore would call upon great attention from everyone. It is great fuel for a startup like this, but one that wont go that far and indeed can fire back, since it is absolutely wrong.
If this YAMO was for real i guess there would be some better targets to get at.
Nothing is perfect in the line, but there are standards that draw the line, and real companies work to be within them.
Trying to damage the company you work for is not good policy, that is my advise to the anachronistic communist union leaders that fill in the ranks.
There is a saying that applies perfectly to this: - Don't spit at the soup, because you may have to eat it next.
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jds_Portugal,
Only to avoid misunderstandings, that stupid post was from Endok. Endok's first post funnily enough! It wasn't Safety Concerns.
I have for many years, been a pilot with a major airline in Northern Europe, that most would call highly professional. I have also due to family circumstances, jumpseated a million times on TAP during those years!
For whatever it's worth, I have on every jumpseat trip found, that the TAP pilots are as friendly, down to earth, and most importantly, well trained and professional as anyone!! I am happy to send my whole family on a longhaul trip with TAP tomorrow!
Last time we heard about AEI was a few months ago when they ran a campaign, that pilots in various european airlines were delaying logbook entries until the return trip to base,so as to avoid delays! They said that 80% of log entries were made on return to base when the logical figure should be 50%!
They made it sound like pilots flew dangerous aircraft back to base! Never acknowleding that pilots are well capable of deciding that a blocked seat due to vomit on the cushion, or lack of paper for the ACARS printer can wait to be taken care of on return to base, they wanted to tell Mr and Mrs SLF, that 30% of flights in Europe where a log entry was made were operated dangerously
I think that AEI needs to come out with some serious proof. Now. Or they are also culprits in this "dangerous behaviour"! I think that AEI has an agenda, that has nothing to do with safety, and all to do with a union trying to protect jobs in an unfortunate era of crisis and jobcuts in all airlines!
Only to avoid misunderstandings, that stupid post was from Endok. Endok's first post funnily enough! It wasn't Safety Concerns.
I have for many years, been a pilot with a major airline in Northern Europe, that most would call highly professional. I have also due to family circumstances, jumpseated a million times on TAP during those years!
For whatever it's worth, I have on every jumpseat trip found, that the TAP pilots are as friendly, down to earth, and most importantly, well trained and professional as anyone!! I am happy to send my whole family on a longhaul trip with TAP tomorrow!
Last time we heard about AEI was a few months ago when they ran a campaign, that pilots in various european airlines were delaying logbook entries until the return trip to base,so as to avoid delays! They said that 80% of log entries were made on return to base when the logical figure should be 50%!
They made it sound like pilots flew dangerous aircraft back to base! Never acknowleding that pilots are well capable of deciding that a blocked seat due to vomit on the cushion, or lack of paper for the ACARS printer can wait to be taken care of on return to base, they wanted to tell Mr and Mrs SLF, that 30% of flights in Europe where a log entry was made were operated dangerously
I think that AEI needs to come out with some serious proof. Now. Or they are also culprits in this "dangerous behaviour"! I think that AEI has an agenda, that has nothing to do with safety, and all to do with a union trying to protect jobs in an unfortunate era of crisis and jobcuts in all airlines!
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I think actually its more about honesty. If you want to drive standards down to something that aligns better with Africa, fine. Regulators and industry however should be honest about it and inform the public.
It doesn't serve anybodies interests to pretend everything is ok.
It doesn't serve anybodies interests to pretend everything is ok.
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safety concerns -
"However....I haven't started any rumours I have just posted a press release that I have taken in good faith and support the contents.
Now being called a liar on an anonymous forum cannot compare with an organisation like AEI losing face because their information isn't
factual. I assume you accept that."
And by the way, the Press Release mentions names so I still firmly believe they have the evidence.
"I stand corrected as I can't find any evidence either."
"I will say it again. Nothing personal but I believe you have all been well warned. Those who still maintain their professionalism on a daily basis, I apologise for what is possibly coming but unfortunately you have too many colleagues (I refuse to call them professional) who for whatever reason do their own thing."
"I have tried to stay on the centreline and tell it as it is."
So, you're just telling it like it is, we've been warned, there are bad people out there, but you've taken their posting and accepted it in good faith and support it's contents, even though there's no proof?
Did I miss anything?
"However....I haven't started any rumours I have just posted a press release that I have taken in good faith and support the contents.
Now being called a liar on an anonymous forum cannot compare with an organisation like AEI losing face because their information isn't
factual. I assume you accept that."
And by the way, the Press Release mentions names so I still firmly believe they have the evidence.
"I stand corrected as I can't find any evidence either."
"I will say it again. Nothing personal but I believe you have all been well warned. Those who still maintain their professionalism on a daily basis, I apologise for what is possibly coming but unfortunately you have too many colleagues (I refuse to call them professional) who for whatever reason do their own thing."
"I have tried to stay on the centreline and tell it as it is."
So, you're just telling it like it is, we've been warned, there are bad people out there, but you've taken their posting and accepted it in good faith and support it's contents, even though there's no proof?
Did I miss anything?
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This thread has become silly. If there was an ounce of truth to any of this it would be in all the papers and on all the news...we all know how the media love to jump on to these aviation stories.
Havent seen, heard or indeed read anything about TAP anywhere...
So SC, where is the proof, put us out of our misery.
Havent seen, heard or indeed read anything about TAP anywhere...
So SC, where is the proof, put us out of our misery.
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TAP Maintenance&Engineering has absolutely no problem
When do you all understand that TAP M&E has absolutely no problems?
When do you understand that during AMT's strike the only players were the cockpit crew and that there are serious people and less serious people!
This was not the first time that happened, and if some aircraft were grounded, other continued to fly.
Some TAP captains think they are "little kings" and they assume that the entire company exhists to justify theyr status!
So, it is not difficult to understand that some time ago a A330 cpt menaced to cancel a 250 people flight if 2 persons he invited ( and that arrived to late to check in) were not brought into the aircraft!....
Do you need more evidences of prepotence?
Yours
MH
When do you understand that during AMT's strike the only players were the cockpit crew and that there are serious people and less serious people!
This was not the first time that happened, and if some aircraft were grounded, other continued to fly.
Some TAP captains think they are "little kings" and they assume that the entire company exhists to justify theyr status!
So, it is not difficult to understand that some time ago a A330 cpt menaced to cancel a 250 people flight if 2 persons he invited ( and that arrived to late to check in) were not brought into the aircraft!....
Do you need more evidences of prepotence?
Yours
MH
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Safety Concerns,
Nobody "wants to drive standards down to something that aligns better with Africa", but I dare to say, that that is what AEI has done so far, by publishing serious accusations without a shadow of proof yet! Now if they provide some proof of these things...good on them!
Mike.Hammer,
So you are absolutely sure that the captain would have cancelled the flight if his two friends were not allowed onboard?
If you have, time to say goodbye to that man I think!
Nobody "wants to drive standards down to something that aligns better with Africa", but I dare to say, that that is what AEI has done so far, by publishing serious accusations without a shadow of proof yet! Now if they provide some proof of these things...good on them!
Mike.Hammer,
So you are absolutely sure that the captain would have cancelled the flight if his two friends were not allowed onboard?
If you have, time to say goodbye to that man I think!
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@ Mr. Hammer,
What does that have to do with AEI and the safety concerns we're discussing?
You'll find pilots with oversized egos everywhere. Let's just all admit they're idiots and get it over with.
Now let's concentrate on the initial topic...
What does that have to do with AEI and the safety concerns we're discussing?
You'll find pilots with oversized egos everywhere. Let's just all admit they're idiots and get it over with.
Now let's concentrate on the initial topic...
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I was not offending the Portuguese people. Some workers at TAP - specially those overpaid - are. You are not above all and if you react like that to any criticism then you have self-esteem problems, I'm afraid.
This post started with a press release stating facts.
And don't talk about safety and other related issues: if you want to mention that then TAP is at or below average.
Want to talk about landing a A340 in a taxiway in Sao Paulo, taxi outside the taxiway in Kinshasa or sending passengers to the Hospital after a F/O abruptly maneuvers an A310 in the Azores? What about being forced to land a A340 in a US air force base near New York because pilots couldn't correctly speak english with the US ATC?
Come on guys, TAP is just another small sized european carrier with financial problems and you have to realize you are not the center of the world.
This post started with a press release stating facts.
And don't talk about safety and other related issues: if you want to mention that then TAP is at or below average.
Want to talk about landing a A340 in a taxiway in Sao Paulo, taxi outside the taxiway in Kinshasa or sending passengers to the Hospital after a F/O abruptly maneuvers an A310 in the Azores? What about being forced to land a A340 in a US air force base near New York because pilots couldn't correctly speak english with the US ATC?
Come on guys, TAP is just another small sized european carrier with financial problems and you have to realize you are not the center of the world.