Passenger safety compromised at TAP
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I stand corrected as I can't find any evidence either. I have emailed them but don't expect a reply soon considering the time of year.
Still would find it very strange if they went to the press and had nothing
Still would find it very strange if they went to the press and had nothing
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Hi all!
All the proof i can present is from my experience.
I have been a TAP pilot for 3 years, i have never flown an aircraft with anomalies not considered in the MEL. Outside Lisbon every engineer coming to the aircraft had identification and most of them are from Lufthansa Tecknik, they said they were maintenance engineers and i never doubted them, i didn´t check for licenses or anything but i am pretty sure they knew what they were doing.
About the acusations, i will just wait for proof.
About "Safety Concerns" he is just the messenger and i thank him for his post, it is nice to know what other say and think about your company.
Happy new year!!!!
All the proof i can present is from my experience.
I have been a TAP pilot for 3 years, i have never flown an aircraft with anomalies not considered in the MEL. Outside Lisbon every engineer coming to the aircraft had identification and most of them are from Lufthansa Tecknik, they said they were maintenance engineers and i never doubted them, i didn´t check for licenses or anything but i am pretty sure they knew what they were doing.
About the acusations, i will just wait for proof.
About "Safety Concerns" he is just the messenger and i thank him for his post, it is nice to know what other say and think about your company.
Happy new year!!!!
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I thought this site was for adults. I have explained in this and previous posts why this subject interests me. My personal interest is not TAP. I just think the TAP situation is the one that broke the camels back.
Conspiracy theories and the like really are nothing more than silly games for little boys and their comics.
I will say it again. Nothing personal but I believe you have all been well warned. Those who still maintain their professionalism on a daily basis, I apologise for what is possibly coming but unfortunately you have too many colleagues (I refuse to call them professional) who for whatever reason do their own thing.
You can and will of course attempt to shoot the messenger because that is convenient but you won't succeed in stopping the rot. It is that rot that should be your primary concern not me.
Conspiracy theories and the like really are nothing more than silly games for little boys and their comics.
I will say it again. Nothing personal but I believe you have all been well warned. Those who still maintain their professionalism on a daily basis, I apologise for what is possibly coming but unfortunately you have too many colleagues (I refuse to call them professional) who for whatever reason do their own thing.
You can and will of course attempt to shoot the messenger because that is convenient but you won't succeed in stopping the rot. It is that rot that should be your primary concern not me.
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Hello,
I believe enough has been said with regards to this subject, we all have our own opinions and we are entitled to express them in an educative manner, whether we agree or not is something else.
I believe if something was wrong with TAP we would have known by now, so I shall leave the burden of proof to those making the accusations. Accusations in general need to be supported with evidence.
PS - Edited, made a mistake.
I believe enough has been said with regards to this subject, we all have our own opinions and we are entitled to express them in an educative manner, whether we agree or not is something else.
I believe if something was wrong with TAP we would have known by now, so I shall leave the burden of proof to those making the accusations. Accusations in general need to be supported with evidence.
PS - Edited, made a mistake.
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I believe if something was wrong with TAP M&E
Furthermore you are not being asked to agree with it. Whatever is said here has no effect apart from hopefully causing a few ECA colleagues to have a serious think about their current position on this.
I will take the abuse because I don't actually want to see the next stage of this campaign being implemented. I find that an honest and open approach but of course its your choice to believe otherwise.
You are being told that if your profession doesn't get a grip of the rogues, the dedicated professionals amongst you will undoubtedly get caught in the resulting crossfire. Splashing evidence all over the place is last resort not first. Check the threads and you will see that there have been enough warnings.
The next stage as I understand it and the reason for my futile postings will not be pleasant. From a personal perspective not wanted either but I say it again, you are just not listening.
Therefore you can have no gripes when it bites back.
Last edited by Safety Concerns; 27th Dec 2008 at 09:57.
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S C....Are you seriously trying to say that there are commercial pilots who are so egotistical, arrogant and stupid, that they'd fly an aircraft that was suspect?
I really don't think a person with that amount of vested interest,time and cash, would do such a thing.
Besides which, the safety-margins built -in to commercial flight, have huge margins...I am quite sure there is considerable room to erode those margins ,without ACTUALLY compromising flight -safety to any realistic degree.
Whilst I am not suggesting it would be a good thing to erode the margins, there have been huge advances in engineering,stress and fatigue analysis and reliability ,in the last 60-odd years since WW2. (arguably the most intense aviation development phase)..Pilot training has also improved and IIRC the cockpit has 100% redundancy in that respect as well.
Your post was ill-considered,considering the subject -carrier has NO recent dodgy operating record.
No connection with any of the above, other than an interested outside observer.
I really don't think a person with that amount of vested interest,time and cash, would do such a thing.
Besides which, the safety-margins built -in to commercial flight, have huge margins...I am quite sure there is considerable room to erode those margins ,without ACTUALLY compromising flight -safety to any realistic degree.
Whilst I am not suggesting it would be a good thing to erode the margins, there have been huge advances in engineering,stress and fatigue analysis and reliability ,in the last 60-odd years since WW2. (arguably the most intense aviation development phase)..Pilot training has also improved and IIRC the cockpit has 100% redundancy in that respect as well.
Your post was ill-considered,considering the subject -carrier has NO recent dodgy operating record.
No connection with any of the above, other than an interested outside observer.
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S C....Are you seriously trying to say that there are commercial pilots who are so egotistical, arrogant and stupid, that they'd fly an aircraft that was suspect?
yes
You are still not listening
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This is getting slightly tedious.
If I get this right you are saying that some TAP pilots are what . . . . .
A- not writing defects in the book ?
B- flying with items in the book that according the MEL should ground the aircraft ?
C- none of the above . . . in which case what the hell are you on about ?
Or is it simply that they refused to participate in some industrial action the engineers are involved in and are trying to keep the show on the road ?
If , to achieve that ,they are doing A or B , I agree with you.
If not, I ask again, what is this all about exactly ?
If I get this right you are saying that some TAP pilots are what . . . . .
A- not writing defects in the book ?
B- flying with items in the book that according the MEL should ground the aircraft ?
C- none of the above . . . in which case what the hell are you on about ?
Or is it simply that they refused to participate in some industrial action the engineers are involved in and are trying to keep the show on the road ?
If , to achieve that ,they are doing A or B , I agree with you.
If not, I ask again, what is this all about exactly ?
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What are the AEI trying to achieve here? If theyreally have evidence of such wrongdoing they should be reporting it to the Portuguese CAA who have the power to investigate the allegations and punish the wrongdoers, not complaining that the ECA, which is a collection of unions, should shame people into action. I'd hazard a guess 90% of European pilots have never received a direct communication from the ECA and would pay scant regard to it if they did. This whole affair sounds to me like the AEI want to kick up a temporary stink but don't want anyone to examine their 'evidence' too closely.
I suspect captplaystation has hit the nail on the head.
I suspect captplaystation has hit the nail on the head.
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@carnage matey, I know its difficult to accept and the message is an unwanted one. When I supplied my evidence to AEI we obviously had a chat. It became clear to me that AEI considered pilots and their representative bodies to be colleagues and did not want to embarass them publicly. However I don't think AEI (my opinion) expected zero response. I would have thought it very easy to send out a general reminder of one's responsibilities or statement that ECA consider flying with unlogged no dispatch items to be extremely unprofessional. I have been led to believe that AEI would present evidence to ECA.
@captplaystation
As far as TAP and my understanding of the latest PR is concerned A+B during a strike. As for the bigger picture A+B in far too many other airlines every day regardless of the industrial situation.
As mentioned in a previous post. I believe that the TAP situation is the one that broke the camels back.
@captplaystation
As far as TAP and my understanding of the latest PR is concerned A+B during a strike. As for the bigger picture A+B in far too many other airlines every day regardless of the industrial situation.
As mentioned in a previous post. I believe that the TAP situation is the one that broke the camels back.
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If the pilots were flying with recorded no-go's which the Eng Dept was aware of why didn't they inform the Authority of the country concerned (Portugal or indeed destination) or are you suggesting they did & it was swept under the carpet (which is MAJOR SH1T if that was the case 
) As for not writing stuff in the book, if the engineers were made verbally aware & let the aircraft depart nonetheless. . . well they were also complicent in the deception, and at the same time weren't doing there own cause much good, kind of an own goal there.
I have never been in a company where it wasn't "preferred" that a minor defect was noticed on the last sector of the day rather than in the middle.
Equally I have never (fortunately) worked for one where I felt any pressure to carry (an unnoted) non allowable defect to keep the show on the road. I did once work for a dodgy "paranoi"-struck Italian company where all the local Capt's seemed to feel the "need
" to do this. As a Contractor in a bouyant job market I had no such difficulties articulating the word "No". . . but well ,ENAC for sure do a "great job" of "oversight 
") in relation to that operation.
) As for not writing stuff in the book, if the engineers were made verbally aware & let the aircraft depart nonetheless. . . well they were also complicent in the deception, and at the same time weren't doing there own cause much good, kind of an own goal there. I have never been in a company where it wasn't "preferred" that a minor defect was noticed on the last sector of the day rather than in the middle.
Equally I have never (fortunately) worked for one where I felt any pressure to carry (an unnoted) non allowable defect to keep the show on the road. I did once work for a dodgy "paranoi"-struck Italian company where all the local Capt's seemed to feel the "need
" to do this. As a Contractor in a bouyant job market I had no such difficulties articulating the word "No". . . but well ,ENAC for sure do a "great job" of "oversight ") in relation to that operation.
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I would be the first to admit that TAP possibly have got a raw deal here but I don't have all the information.
I know from my examples that the NAA were in bed with the operator. There are also other documented events where reports that were sent to the NAA ended up as originals at the airline concerned on the bosses desk as he fired the reporter.
I only mention this in the hope that you understand all avenues have been exhausted
I know from my examples that the NAA were in bed with the operator. There are also other documented events where reports that were sent to the NAA ended up as originals at the airline concerned on the bosses desk as he fired the reporter.
I only mention this in the hope that you understand all avenues have been exhausted
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reality hurts...
What really happened was that TAP pilots have reached to a fanta$tic retirement agreement and now they are really "motivated" to duty...
Despite other colleagues strikes there are some pilots that keep think they could do everything.
INAC portuguese authority is unnefective to control ( their head staff are retired pilots...)
I hope EASA wont sleep on this.
Do someone really thinks that AEI would report something so severe if there were no evidences?...
yours
MH
Despite other colleagues strikes there are some pilots that keep think they could do everything.
INAC portuguese authority is unnefective to control ( their head staff are retired pilots...)
I hope EASA wont sleep on this.
Do someone really thinks that AEI would report something so severe if there were no evidences?...
yours
MH
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yes it hurts, doesn't it?
Does anybody need more proof of what is at stake here, in the light of what was written by Mike.Hammer? Well, I don't...
Thanks, (new entrant) Mike.H, for bringing to us the real reasons behind this infamy.
I think 411A said it with just a few words:
Thanks, (new entrant) Mike.H, for bringing to us the real reasons behind this infamy.
I think 411A said it with just a few words:
Looks to me that this whole charade was authored by a maintenance engineers union stooge...
Last edited by aguadalte; 28th Dec 2008 at 12:00. Reason: not my mother language...
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I think that, in the real world, everything is possible. Here the evidence : “The safety of Iberia’s aircrafts is under suspicion” according to SEPLA
http://www.sepla.es/website/seplacms...=1151&Itemid=1
http://www.sepla.es/website/seplacms...=1151&Itemid=1
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People who come bearing gifts, such as accusations and thinly veiled threats, should be concerned whether they are whiter than white themselves. The chance that this will blow up in their own faces it not insignificant.
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Oh Conan,come on now. I have tried to stay on the centreline and tell it as it is. There have been no threats just an explanation of why its looking more likely that an unwanted event from my perspective is going to happen. Nice thinly veiled threat from you though.
As for Mike Hammer I have no information on his concerns at all. That said though aguadalte your post doesn't make sense.
Are you trying to suggest that nothing has happened during the strike and it must all be lies because someone now raises a different issue that appears to have a "grudge" element attached to it?
Usually its exactly that type of discontent that opens the doors and allows more truths to emerge.
As for Mike Hammer I have no information on his concerns at all. That said though aguadalte your post doesn't make sense.
Are you trying to suggest that nothing has happened during the strike and it must all be lies because someone now raises a different issue that appears to have a "grudge" element attached to it?
Usually its exactly that type of discontent that opens the doors and allows more truths to emerge.