Passenger safety compromised at TAP
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Safety Concern
If they (the TAP pilots ) truly have done this then they are indeed w@nkers of the highest order.
Not only for doing it. . . but well, what sort of rapport/cooperation do they now expect from the engineering staff, whose qualifications/contribution, they have pissed all over.
Truly woeful, if indeed true, but we, and the authorities, need some proof. . . . . I am sure you understand.
If they (the TAP pilots ) truly have done this then they are indeed w@nkers of the highest order.
Not only for doing it. . . but well, what sort of rapport/cooperation do they now expect from the engineering staff, whose qualifications/contribution, they have pissed all over.
Truly woeful, if indeed true, but we, and the authorities, need some proof. . . . . I am sure you understand.
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@ Safety Concerns
"Therefore due to the FACT that those discreet requests have been ignored and due to the FACT that pilots are continuing to fly on for the company even ignoring MEL no go items, we have reached the stage we are at now."
Good thing you don't sign your posts. TAP's pilot union would probably want a word with you if you did...
"Therefore due to the FACT that those discreet requests have been ignored and due to the FACT that pilots are continuing to fly on for the company even ignoring MEL no go items, we have reached the stage we are at now."
Good thing you don't sign your posts. TAP's pilot union would probably want a word with you if you did...
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Passenger safety compromised at TAP
From post #1 I suggest we also read "Professional engineers associations are not being very professional looking in the other direction on this one." either. Let's have this out in the open - if safety IS being compromised, we need to know - FACTS, not internet froth and bubble. Non-logging of 'no dispatch' items is unacceptable.
SC - any clue as to when substantive evidence will arrive? I think if it is longer than a few days, our noble mods should shunt this thread elsewhere, away from the 'front page' where only you seem to be supporting the allegations. I see your words in your post #81, but are you, perchance, really just an 'unattributable' public mouthpiece for the AEI?
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If there was no evidence there would not be a press release
Just AEI (who ever they are) is mentioning this on a website called
www.individual.com (whatever that is) as story number 93957392.
Why would a person like "SC" advertise this as a serious press release here ?
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Here is the contact for more information:
CONTACT: PR officer e-mail: [email protected] e-mail: [email protected] Tel: +31 655 930 175 http://www.airengineers.org
There does appear to have been a 'press release'.
CONTACT: PR officer e-mail: [email protected] e-mail: [email protected] Tel: +31 655 930 175 http://www.airengineers.org
There does appear to have been a 'press release'.
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It says in the press release
"The evidence published on the AEI website is clear for all to see"
Well, I looked, and I couldn't find any evidence, just the Press release.
If they have something more concrete documented, or individuals who are willing to testify to a judge, I would suggest it is their responsibility to report this to someone by official means and not just a press release.
If they don't, they could also be accused of letting something pass them by without taking the correct action.
Are they, or have they reported this through the correct channels, or is it merely a press release, and if so WHY ?
If it truly happened there should be a document trail available, and hopefully individuals who would be willing to testify ? or is another part of the problem that those in the know don't want to speak out for fear of their position.
If this press release seeks to force them to come forward, it could backfire. When people are forced to choose between their principals & paying the bills, guess what normally wins ?
BTW PPRuNE clock could do with a good engineer, I am not really that sad to be on here @ 0255 posting, it's 1155 where I am
"The evidence published on the AEI website is clear for all to see"
Well, I looked, and I couldn't find any evidence, just the Press release.
If they have something more concrete documented, or individuals who are willing to testify to a judge, I would suggest it is their responsibility to report this to someone by official means and not just a press release.
If they don't, they could also be accused of letting something pass them by without taking the correct action.
Are they, or have they reported this through the correct channels, or is it merely a press release, and if so WHY ?
If it truly happened there should be a document trail available, and hopefully individuals who would be willing to testify ? or is another part of the problem that those in the know don't want to speak out for fear of their position.
If this press release seeks to force them to come forward, it could backfire. When people are forced to choose between their principals & paying the bills, guess what normally wins ?
BTW PPRuNE clock could do with a good engineer, I am not really that sad to be on here @ 0255 posting, it's 1155 where I am
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are you, perchance, really just an 'unattributable' public mouthpiece for the AEI?
Reading this, and other threads where SC have appeared, it is clear to me that SC's association with AEI is much closer than SC wants to admit.
Also , as this is part of an ongoing campaign, the question is whether or not AEI have cleaned up their own house first, before going after other groups within the industry? If that is not the case, as could be suspected, then this is not driven by the motives claimed.
As I have said previously, there is a good chance that this will seriously backfire for AEI.
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Here is the contact for more information:
CONTACT: PR officer e-mail: e-mail: Tel: +31 655 930 175 Aircraft Engineers International
There does appear to have been a 'press release'.
CONTACT: PR officer e-mail: e-mail: Tel: +31 655 930 175 Aircraft Engineers International
There does appear to have been a 'press release'.
The "press release" is not exactly in the press is it ?
just on "www.individual.com" and on "Pprune".
Oh and on Air Engineers Service Experts,
By the way , their
+31 655 930 175
Hopefully last post on this scam / over and out
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Certainly found no trace of it on any Googlhunt amongst the 'media', but who is to say what EXACTLY constitutes a 'Press Release' anyway? Is it sufficient just to 'send' it to the media even if they ignore it?
PS Sorry to spoil your 'closing post'
- and just to clarify - no, I have no interest in keeping this thread alive as it stands! I agree - let this one die - until and if.
PS Sorry to spoil your 'closing post'
- and just to clarify - no, I have no interest in keeping this thread alive as it stands! I agree - let this one die - until and if.
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As I seem to understand, SITEMA has stopped the strike schedules, due to understanding between the parts. Now, would the TAP board accept the SITEMA claims, if it wasn't recognized that SITEMA could be right?
About AEI. Do you really expect that an Association which has voting powers within the EASA would post a PR without proofs? Surely you don't expect them to proove to you and me, the public, about the evidences they have...! They have to proove it within EASA's work schedule, right?
Also, it seems to have been only SOME pilots, not the entire class of them! I can tell you the majority of TAP pilots must believe either in the punishment of the responsables or in the restructuring of scenario, so it won't happen again...!
My best to you all in 2009!
About AEI. Do you really expect that an Association which has voting powers within the EASA would post a PR without proofs? Surely you don't expect them to proove to you and me, the public, about the evidences they have...! They have to proove it within EASA's work schedule, right?
Also, it seems to have been only SOME pilots, not the entire class of them! I can tell you the majority of TAP pilots must believe either in the punishment of the responsables or in the restructuring of scenario, so it won't happen again...!
My best to you all in 2009!
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I'm afraid those rules of logic went out of the window when jmig29 pointed out that strike plans have been dropped. Anything can be overlooked as part of a messy compromise. Indeed a large union in the UK got away with organising a costly and illegal secondary strike because of a questionable compromise. That union simply acquiesced to the employer when it turned out the latter held all the legal cards. I'd still want to see the evidence the AEI claims to have before I decide whether they were right and TAP were wrong, or they simply thought they might be right and TAP have them over a barrel legally. If the evidence is there there should be no problem publishing it surely?
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carnage get a grip of the bigger picture.
Do you know why no European airline will ever appear on the blacklist?
Ans: Cos they always meet the standards. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahaha
Wrong, its because politics dictates they can't. There has already been 2 accidents in Europe in recent times that should never have happened. All that was needed to prevent them was to ensure that the regulations were adhered to. One of the airlines involved was about to be placed on the blacklist but this was prevented by European politics.
Now grow up if you still really believe that anybody posting on here will produce evidence other than when they personally feel comfortable to do so.
The information and evidence is already out there. Statistically it probably never will happen to you but statistically it will happen to some of our colleagues.
Arrogance and stupidity prevents some professional people from playing their role in preventing the next one.
Do you know why no European airline will ever appear on the blacklist?
Ans: Cos they always meet the standards. hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahaha
Wrong, its because politics dictates they can't. There has already been 2 accidents in Europe in recent times that should never have happened. All that was needed to prevent them was to ensure that the regulations were adhered to. One of the airlines involved was about to be placed on the blacklist but this was prevented by European politics.
Now grow up if you still really believe that anybody posting on here will produce evidence other than when they personally feel comfortable to do so.
The information and evidence is already out there. Statistically it probably never will happen to you but statistically it will happen to some of our colleagues.
Arrogance and stupidity prevents some professional people from playing their role in preventing the next one.
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I don't expect people on here to post the evidence.I expect the AEI to post the evidence. They haven't. When they do I'll take them seriously. Until they do I, and most other pilots on here, will see this as an industrially motivated stunt. Don't try to obfuscate things by changing the subject to European blacklists or statistical data thats 'out there'. This thread is about the AEI and TAP. The AEI should show us the evidence.
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Safety Concerns,
I have some difficulty in classifying your last post: it's either childish or (pretending to be) naive. I am truly amazed on how low you can still put your (non-existant) credibility; it's like giving a minus signal to an absolute zero.
What really Concerns me is the probability of persons like yourself working in this industry. Now that would represent a big Safety issue IMHO, because what you (and your "organization") are doing could be called Industrial Terrorism.
Enough of this nonsense.
GD&L
I have some difficulty in classifying your last post: it's either childish or (pretending to be) naive. I am truly amazed on how low you can still put your (non-existant) credibility; it's like giving a minus signal to an absolute zero.
What really Concerns me is the probability of persons like yourself working in this industry. Now that would represent a big Safety issue IMHO, because what you (and your "organization") are doing could be called Industrial Terrorism.
Enough of this nonsense.
GD&L
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What this thread and a few others on pprune have clearly shown is that many of you have your heads in the clouds.
AEI actually caught my attention about a year with a press release they made about standards that could have been written for my company. Since then they have maintained continuity with their comments (obviously in my opinion).
Having followed them for about a year and supplying evidence to assist them I can assure you (as I have already posted) that TAP was unfortunately the straw that broke the camels back. So in plain English that means they are not alone.
Now you should already have alarm bells ringing if safety is a prime concern of yours. If pay is your motivation you will probably continue harping on about evidence.
I suggest you urgently read this post http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...ios-crash.html
particularly post#85.
Now if you are able to place all the pieces in the correct order you should be able to appreciate that AEI are actually trying to do you a favour by ensuring you don't end up becoming just another statistic. It is related. Unfortunately
your profession wasn't interested in listening which is why I posted the AEI press release in the first instance. I witness this every single working day.
Now you need to think again Carnage. If the EU are not powerful enough to be able to place European airlines on the blacklist, what do you think would happen to any individual or organisation that attempted to directly bring events out into the open?
Why is it that EASA for example doesn't openly publish the evidence of its audit findings?
Think carnage think.
AEI actually caught my attention about a year with a press release they made about standards that could have been written for my company. Since then they have maintained continuity with their comments (obviously in my opinion).
Having followed them for about a year and supplying evidence to assist them I can assure you (as I have already posted) that TAP was unfortunately the straw that broke the camels back. So in plain English that means they are not alone.
Now you should already have alarm bells ringing if safety is a prime concern of yours. If pay is your motivation you will probably continue harping on about evidence.
I suggest you urgently read this post http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...ios-crash.html
particularly post#85.
Now if you are able to place all the pieces in the correct order you should be able to appreciate that AEI are actually trying to do you a favour by ensuring you don't end up becoming just another statistic. It is related. Unfortunately
your profession wasn't interested in listening which is why I posted the AEI press release in the first instance. I witness this every single working day.
Now you need to think again Carnage. If the EU are not powerful enough to be able to place European airlines on the blacklist, what do you think would happen to any individual or organisation that attempted to directly bring events out into the open?
Why is it that EASA for example doesn't openly publish the evidence of its audit findings?
Think carnage think.
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What I think is that perhaps you have been watching the X Files a little too much. Are you really suggesting the EU is not sufficiently powerful to blacklist airlines? That organisations are afraid to publish evidence? What will happen? Will black 4x4s appear outside their offices and abduct the staff?
The reason the EASA doesn't publish it's audit findings is the same reason that airlines don't publish their own audit results: the public simply aren't qualified to make a reasonable assessment of the data. Audits find faults, it's their nature, but the travelling public cannot make an objective judgement about which faults are significant, which are trivial. Airlines would be unfairly damaged commerically by a process designed to improve their safety.
Not withstanding all the above, you are continuing to obfuscate the issue here. You may well have been reporting violations to the AEI for months (I trust you MORd and CHIRPed them too), but why has AEI chosen TAP specifically, and why have they timed this release in the middle of an industrial dispute with engineers?
You are trying to cloud the issue with your bizarre suggestion that somehow the desire to see evidence is more to do with greed than safety but thats not going to work I'm afraid. If the AEI won't produce the goods then their press release is no different to one of Mohammed Al Fayeds ranting releases about how the royal family killed Diana, and provides just as much proof.
The reason the EASA doesn't publish it's audit findings is the same reason that airlines don't publish their own audit results: the public simply aren't qualified to make a reasonable assessment of the data. Audits find faults, it's their nature, but the travelling public cannot make an objective judgement about which faults are significant, which are trivial. Airlines would be unfairly damaged commerically by a process designed to improve their safety.
Not withstanding all the above, you are continuing to obfuscate the issue here. You may well have been reporting violations to the AEI for months (I trust you MORd and CHIRPed them too), but why has AEI chosen TAP specifically, and why have they timed this release in the middle of an industrial dispute with engineers?
You are trying to cloud the issue with your bizarre suggestion that somehow the desire to see evidence is more to do with greed than safety but thats not going to work I'm afraid. If the AEI won't produce the goods then their press release is no different to one of Mohammed Al Fayeds ranting releases about how the royal family killed Diana, and provides just as much proof.