Frustrated (?) pilots and security screening
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: flightdeck/earlyhours commute
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Widavjon
Many of my experiences are with BAA staff of 'indeterminate' capacity, save that they have been decked out in the new Sky-Farce uniform, and seemingly with the unform gos the mandate- behave as you see fit. All praise to those who have taken it seriously. Shame on the rest who are using the position for other gain.
I have operated out of one non- BAA airport in the NW, and there is a world of difference in the manner and demeanor of the staff at the security area.
With that aside, and not knowing what your exact position is (I am a FO), or how your position relates to traditional security services...
Surely you must be able to accept that the totally cack-handed manner with which security is being implemented across the country, and especially in some of the more notable airports controlled by a single major operator, that this is totally unnecessary, and even destructive to the end goal of making aviation safe.
As I mentioned previously, trained security staff on the whole have a completely different approach to the task than do the majority of the other staff performing the task at present.
Look at how 2 police officers would scrutinise a large group of people. Observation is a major factor. Not being distracted for large periods of time by random banter. The random banter may continue, but it doesn't have the same distracting effect.
It's most definitely not as confrontational as much of the treatment being given to staff who have an equal obligation to be in the same place.
Many of my experiences are with BAA staff of 'indeterminate' capacity, save that they have been decked out in the new Sky-Farce uniform, and seemingly with the unform gos the mandate- behave as you see fit. All praise to those who have taken it seriously. Shame on the rest who are using the position for other gain.
I have operated out of one non- BAA airport in the NW, and there is a world of difference in the manner and demeanor of the staff at the security area.
With that aside, and not knowing what your exact position is (I am a FO), or how your position relates to traditional security services...
Surely you must be able to accept that the totally cack-handed manner with which security is being implemented across the country, and especially in some of the more notable airports controlled by a single major operator, that this is totally unnecessary, and even destructive to the end goal of making aviation safe.
As I mentioned previously, trained security staff on the whole have a completely different approach to the task than do the majority of the other staff performing the task at present.
Look at how 2 police officers would scrutinise a large group of people. Observation is a major factor. Not being distracted for large periods of time by random banter. The random banter may continue, but it doesn't have the same distracting effect.
It's most definitely not as confrontational as much of the treatment being given to staff who have an equal obligation to be in the same place.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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The reason you have been 'Criminal Record Checked' is to create jobs in Labour constituencies in Scotland, and to allow the government to impose yet another tax on aviation and other hapless industries.
The CRC is no more use than a quick scan of your birth certificate and a call to the local nick.
There is no possible justification for the treatment of flight crew by UK security operatives. If police officers can pass unmolested than pilots certainly can.
It's like living in East Germany.
The CRC is no more use than a quick scan of your birth certificate and a call to the local nick.
There is no possible justification for the treatment of flight crew by UK security operatives. If police officers can pass unmolested than pilots certainly can.
It's like living in East Germany.
Join Date: Oct 2007
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As this thread and others continue you can always see the absolute stupidity of airport security process as it stands at the moment. Please please do the travelling public a favour - invoke industrial action.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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Disclosure Scotland!!!!!!
When disco scot was mentioned above I had to laugh at this ridiculous check, I was once told that it was introduced to weed out perverts and criminals from the education and medical professions.
I had worked abroad for many years and upon returning to the U.K. I was told I had to complete this stupid waste of time, it got interesting when it got to the bit about ALL!! your addresses for the last 5yrs. I called them up and told them of my numerous locations - hotels, hostels and friends houses all over the map and that it would be almost impossible to complete this with any degree of accuracy. I was more than a little surprised to be told that it didn't matter as they don't check overseas addresses. ???????????
I had worked abroad for many years and upon returning to the U.K. I was told I had to complete this stupid waste of time, it got interesting when it got to the bit about ALL!! your addresses for the last 5yrs. I called them up and told them of my numerous locations - hotels, hostels and friends houses all over the map and that it would be almost impossible to complete this with any degree of accuracy. I was more than a little surprised to be told that it didn't matter as they don't check overseas addresses. ???????????
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Deepest, Surrey
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Colleague flew into Heathrow last night on a BA flight from Glasgow and the whole planeload of Pax found themselves at Passport Control - but without passports.
Immigration were firstly incredulous and would not beleive that they were off an internal UK flight.
When faced with 150 people saying the same thing they eventually accepted that there had been a cock-up of some sort and led the whole bunch of them through various doors and along corridors to the domestic arraivals.
Trouble was nobody checked and ID's them to make sure they were all and only off the Glasgow flight - so heaven knows who else might have tagged along in the line and managed to skip immigration controls.
Appalling.
Immigration were firstly incredulous and would not beleive that they were off an internal UK flight.
When faced with 150 people saying the same thing they eventually accepted that there had been a cock-up of some sort and led the whole bunch of them through various doors and along corridors to the domestic arraivals.
Trouble was nobody checked and ID's them to make sure they were all and only off the Glasgow flight - so heaven knows who else might have tagged along in the line and managed to skip immigration controls.
Appalling.
Join Date: Nov 2000
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From the iht.com:
The rest of the article is worth reading...
At Kobe's security checkpoint boarding passes were checked, laptops unloaded and I was about to discard a bottle of juice when the security agent extended her gloved hand to take it. I expected to watch her chuck it in the bin, but instead she took it over to a device that obviously scanned the contents and decided it wasn't filled with something that could rip a 767 out of the sky. Why similar scanners haven't been fitted at airports around the world to allow passengers to carry beverages on board seems odd. Then again, it would demand a bit more work on the part of the security contractors, so it's obviously been ruled out in less service-minded nations, i.e., the rest of the world.
The rest of the article is worth reading...
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Yes, these liquid scanners have been used in Japan for some time now - well before the so-called "liquid-explosive-terror-scare" in Britain. I experienced such machines in Tokyo and Osaka in late 05/early 06. The Japanese are way, way ahead of the rest of the world in this respect - they were thinking proactively about such threats AND coming up with a practical solution.
AND - the Japanese don't simply order you to take your shoes off. If you "beep", they ask you politely to take them off and then hand you a clean pair of slippers so you don't have to walk across a filthy floor. Not that Japanese floors are left filthy for long....
AND - the Japanese exhibit the utmost courtesy towards crew, especially when going through screening. Thorough but certainly not unpleasant, unlike "western" countries. It is breathtakingly refreshing.
日本 has a great deal going for it......
AND - the Japanese don't simply order you to take your shoes off. If you "beep", they ask you politely to take them off and then hand you a clean pair of slippers so you don't have to walk across a filthy floor. Not that Japanese floors are left filthy for long....
AND - the Japanese exhibit the utmost courtesy towards crew, especially when going through screening. Thorough but certainly not unpleasant, unlike "western" countries. It is breathtakingly refreshing.
日本 has a great deal going for it......
Security, liquids and FRA
Don't want to rekindle the liquids discussion per se, but....
B31 in FRA T1 the other day, having negotiated the primary and (significantly more stringent because UK destination) secondary screenings.
So I'm now in a sterile zone, free of WMD's, toothpaste tubes and sundry other liquids in containers >100ml.
Screening staff's bag is open, revealing a 1.5ltr PET bottle containing...some sort of pop?
I asked Fraport last week how they reconcile this with the EU regs regarding liquids.
No answer.
Federal security today says it's OK "because we do spot checks on liquids with the tools available to us (i.e. get the staff member to take a swig..)" but "we can't explain why it's different in the UK" and "we also don't see a risk of someone smuggling something through in a bottle and giving it to a passenger"
So there you have it.
Either the UK's round-the-twist paranoid or FRA is being frighteningly cavalier....
(And yes, I do, in fact, think that the liquid explosive thing has been totally overblown, but this comes down to complying with standards/directives, no matter how inane)
B31 in FRA T1 the other day, having negotiated the primary and (significantly more stringent because UK destination) secondary screenings.
So I'm now in a sterile zone, free of WMD's, toothpaste tubes and sundry other liquids in containers >100ml.
Screening staff's bag is open, revealing a 1.5ltr PET bottle containing...some sort of pop?
I asked Fraport last week how they reconcile this with the EU regs regarding liquids.
No answer.
Federal security today says it's OK "because we do spot checks on liquids with the tools available to us (i.e. get the staff member to take a swig..)" but "we can't explain why it's different in the UK" and "we also don't see a risk of someone smuggling something through in a bottle and giving it to a passenger"
So there you have it.
Either the UK's round-the-twist paranoid or FRA is being frighteningly cavalier....
(And yes, I do, in fact, think that the liquid explosive thing has been totally overblown, but this comes down to complying with standards/directives, no matter how inane)
Last edited by RevMan2; 11th Oct 2007 at 14:42. Reason: Punctuation
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Well crew are exempt as far as my experience goes in the rest of the world so I guess the screeners are too. I am glad the rest of the world is not as mad as the UK. It reassures me to see some common sense around the place. Especially in Germany. My life at work could be so much less stressful if I only had to deal with German security staff and not have to endure the ridiculous rules in the UK every time I go to work.
Join Date: Oct 2002
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I'm alowed to take my drinks, deo etc. with me in the cockpit from all European airports, except when going through UK-security.
I am treated with respect in all European airports, except in the UK, where they mostly look at me as if I'm a serial killer.
Just waiting now for some UK pilots to slag me off again and claim that "only the UK is following the rules to the letter" and that they know best
I am treated with respect in all European airports, except in the UK, where they mostly look at me as if I'm a serial killer.
Just waiting now for some UK pilots to slag me off again and claim that "only the UK is following the rules to the letter" and that they know best
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Actually I think UK crew would mostly agree with you, I much prefer going thru foreign airports where I (mostly) get treated like a human rather than LHR where I ALWAYS get body searched and we get nasty emails from our manager if, god forbid, we accidentally have a moisturizer or lip balm in a pocket rather than the plastic bag 
Join Date: Nov 2000
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I also work thru' FRA & other European airports on a very regular basis.
Happily I've yet to come acreoss the mad 'orders iz orders' attitude found virtually EVERYWHERE in the UK!
In Europe crew seem to be treated with a little bit more respect than in the UK, and rightly so IMHO.
Now, having said that, I've recently had a lot less trouble at UK x-ray machines than was the case say, six months ago.
Is it maybe up for review then, as I seem to remember seeing somewhere?
It's just such a lot of total, FFS!!
Happily I've yet to come acreoss the mad 'orders iz orders' attitude found virtually EVERYWHERE in the UK!
In Europe crew seem to be treated with a little bit more respect than in the UK, and rightly so IMHO.
Now, having said that, I've recently had a lot less trouble at UK x-ray machines than was the case say, six months ago.
Is it maybe up for review then, as I seem to remember seeing somewhere?
It's just such a lot of total
, FFS!!
Join Date: Feb 1999
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Current Rules for Pilots in the UK are total B.S.
But hey...it keeps the pesants whom do the security screening entertained! No qualifications, no skills, no common scence...NO MATTER become an Airside Security Agent!
Thankfully, I don't fly out of base much and don't take liquids to work.
The Lunatics are running the asylum! (Whitehall, etc)
But hey...it keeps the pesants whom do the security screening entertained! No qualifications, no skills, no common scence...NO MATTER become an Airside Security Agent!
Thankfully, I don't fly out of base much and don't take liquids to work.
The Lunatics are running the asylum! (Whitehall, etc)
Join Date: Jun 1999
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I had my spare razor blades taken from me (stolen) by a 'security' goon in the UK recently and I'm just about sick to my back teeth of the pantomime enacted every time I go to work (300+ seat jet). The utter futility of harassing pilots before flying seems to have passed our security 'experts' by.
Does anyone have the name and address of the individual at the top of the UK 'security' food chain? I want to write to this person and tell them exactly what I think of their stupid rules and regulations as narrowly interpreted in the specific case of pilots. It won't of course change anything but at least I'll feel a bit better.
I'm just tired of arriving at the aeroplane feeling angry.
Does anyone have the name and address of the individual at the top of the UK 'security' food chain? I want to write to this person and tell them exactly what I think of their stupid rules and regulations as narrowly interpreted in the specific case of pilots. It won't of course change anything but at least I'll feel a bit better.
I'm just tired of arriving at the aeroplane feeling angry.
Join Date: Jul 2000
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Write to BALPA. Are you a member? They are specifically looking for this type of report or better still write an MOR. They [BALPA, CAA etc] are actively looking for evidence of what you have just said. The people at the top just don't believe it is a problem.
The Cooler King
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As I mentioned somewhere earlier.
Nail clippers taken away at screening in Geneva.
Then promptly walked airside and bought a large bladed Swiss Army Knife.
Sigh....
Nail clippers taken away at screening in Geneva.
Then promptly walked airside and bought a large bladed Swiss Army Knife.
Sigh....